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Spanish rugby

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby amz » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 07:39

Don't you know guys there's no rugby in Europe outside 6N? It's normal

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 09:02

armchair_expert wrote:
He is a young Englishman hungry for an opportunity and I believe our rugby programme will help him reach his dreams.”

He will be registered there as England-qualified despite playing for Wales 7s at RE 7s GPS - because "It was only Rugby Europe." and "Not a capture 7’s team"

If the above is true then presumably Six Nations unions do not field their First Sevens teams at Rugby Europe 7s tournaments - which would explain how David Mélé is eligible for Spain despite playing for France in FIRA-AER 7s GPS.


What a f.... joke.

Not sure about Mele, as he played in 2007 for France. Maybe the structure was different. But this Welsh guy should be definitely captured by Wales.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 12:30

Armchair Fan wrote:Yes, it was advanced by Eugenio Astesiano on Twitter a couple of weeks ago and then included in FER calendar.

--

Radio MARCA Valladolid interviewed this week Chema Valentín-Gamazo, VRAC president:
https://www.ivoox.com/11-03-2019-zona-d ... 417_1.html

Less interesting than El Salvador's last week, but some info given nevertheless:
- Around 900,000€ of total budget for this season
- 50% devoted to junior teams, senior team has more or less the same as other Liga Heineken sides
- He thinks they would need a 20-25% increase to reach their maximum capacity, including playing Continental Shield
- They want to enter Continental Shield but acknowledge they would need an expanded squad and better scheduling, meaning help from FER and other clubs

--

Sevens win over New Zealand made the news in every TV channel and newspaper. Team realises it was their worst tournament of the season, but since they've already almost secured avoiding relegation and the main goal now is Olympic qualifiers in the summer, such a win is probably more important than another Cup QF. This was an excerpt from public TV main channel:
http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/tele ... a/5048718/

--

U18 and U16 Autonomic Championships came to an end this weekend. This season they adopted a round robin format and Madrid won both tournaments by beating Catalonia in the last round. In fact Andalucía even managed to finish runner-up in U16. Madrid win in U18 is particularly remarkable given the number of players that have gone abroad from that generation, but it proves they not only have the numbers (+33% more players than Portugal with half the population) but also great structures and coaching.


450,000€ just for junior teams? Holy hell that’s a lot. Junior teams I know of run off of whatever dues they pay and whatever the coach feels like shelling out.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 12:41

VRAC and El Salvador U18, U16 and U14 play in Madrid regional leagues. That means renting a couple of buses every single weekend. They also promote national championships in Valladolid, play some tournaments in other cities, visit Portugal... And in even younger categories El Salvador has fielded up to 8 teams in a single tournament. Both teams have academy projects as well, not meaning a physical building with youngsters living there, but offering masterclasses in addition to usual training, receiving coaching lessons, offering grants in a private university...

Their senior semipro teams are a luxury and a promotion tool. Their fuel is families registering their kids and becoming socios. A few years ago when El Salvador was near bankruptcy many parents were extremely upset that their fees were risen to pay for the debt created paying salaries to foreigners.

There is money in Spanish rugby, but when you have so many young players (50% of registered players in Madrid region are minors) and women teams, there isn't much left for professional projects.
Last edited by Armchair Fan on Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 13:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 12:57

Tobar wrote:
450,000€ just for junior teams? Holy hell that’s a lot. Junior teams I know of run off of whatever dues they pay and whatever the coach feels like shelling out.


On the other hand, if you've got an employed coach (most probably even an active player) for each age of approx. 12 age groups (counting from U7-U18), that is not that much. Also Spain is a civilized country, where employers pay their fair share for social security, pension funds and health care. I don't know about the Spanish tax system, but I reckon that if a player gets around 1200 netto (+already included health care and the others posted before) he costs about 2000€. That's 24k a year. So that's only 18 coaches. I think their coaches might even earn less in average, but just my idea where this number comes from.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 13:09

RugbyLiebe, you overestimate how civilized we are. Yes, big clubs offer decent contracts with social security but there aren't that many doing things in a totally legal way. Maybe six or seven.

I don't think VRAC or El Salvador have more than three paid coaches each either. But running costs of the club are high enough to justify such budgets.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 13:13

Armchair Fan wrote:RugbyLiebe, you overestimate how civilized we are. Yes, big clubs offer decent contracts with social security but there aren't that many doing things in a totally legal way. Maybe six or seven.

I don't think VRAC or El Salvador have more than three paid coaches each either. But running costs of the club are high enough to justify such budgets.


Well I didn't expect this club to have that many coaches, but I'm quite sure a lot of players will get an hourly fee for their coaching. And this adds up with so many teams involved.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 20:37

Armchair Fan wrote:VRAC and El Salvador U18, U16 and U14 play in Madrid regional leagues. That means renting a couple of buses every single weekend. They also promote national championships in Valladolid, play some tournaments in other cities, visit Portugal... And in even younger categories El Salvador has fielded up to 8 teams in a single tournament. Both teams have academy projects as well, not meaning a physical building with youngsters living there, but offering masterclasses in addition to usual training, receiving coaching lessons, offering grants in a private university...

Their senior semipro teams are a luxury and a promotion tool. Their fuel is families registering their kids and becoming socios. A few years ago when El Salvador was near bankruptcy many parents were extremely upset that their fees were risen to pay for the debt created paying salaries to foreigners.

There is money in Spanish rugby, but when you have so many young players (50% of registered players in Madrid region are minors) and women teams, there isn't much left for professional projects.


I'm aware that money can dry up quickly but that is still a lot for a rugby program in a country Tier 2. I live and play in NYC (though my club barely has a u18 team). We do have 2 or 3 senior teams that have to rent buses and travel multiple weekends as well as pay the ridiculously high expense of fields in NYC (around $150 for a few hours). And we only have 1 coach too (plus volunteer player/coaches). Our budget each year is probably under $50,000.

Of course, you guys have multiple youth programs which is a good sign of a healthy club.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 21:17

Tobar wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:VRAC and El Salvador U18, U16 and U14 play in Madrid regional leagues. That means renting a couple of buses every single weekend. They also promote national championships in Valladolid, play some tournaments in other cities, visit Portugal... And in even younger categories El Salvador has fielded up to 8 teams in a single tournament. Both teams have academy projects as well, not meaning a physical building with youngsters living there, but offering masterclasses in addition to usual training, receiving coaching lessons, offering grants in a private university...

Their senior semipro teams are a luxury and a promotion tool. Their fuel is families registering their kids and becoming socios. A few years ago when El Salvador was near bankruptcy many parents were extremely upset that their fees were risen to pay for the debt created paying salaries to foreigners.

There is money in Spanish rugby, but when you have so many young players (50% of registered players in Madrid region are minors) and women teams, there isn't much left for professional projects.


I'm aware that money can dry up quickly but that is still a lot for a rugby program in a country Tier 2. I live and play in NYC (though my club barely has a u18 team). We do have 2 or 3 senior teams that have to rent buses and travel multiple weekends as well as pay the ridiculously high expense of fields in NYC (around $150 for a few hours). And we only have 1 coach too (plus volunteer player/coaches). Our budget each year is probably under $50,000.

Of course, you guys have multiple youth programs which is a good sign of a healthy club.


$150? That's cheap mane!

In regards to the Youth budget, that's rather insane and amazing.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Ainsthrilln » Sat, 16 Mar 2019, 10:59

As AF said, in Spain there are many clubs that aren't a semipro team with an Academy to feed it with players, but an Academy with a semipro team as a marketing tool.

There are many clubs were parents' fees from the Academy (plus grants from local authorities promoting sport for the youth) sum up much more money than sponsors and ticket fees of the semipro side.

And that happen a lot in other sports, even in soccer if you go down to the fourth or fifth division.

And you can justify to pay with the Academy funds the salary of the children's coach, that happen to be a player of the semipro team, but not much else.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Sun, 17 Mar 2019, 00:26

TheStroBro wrote:
Tobar wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:VRAC and El Salvador U18, U16 and U14 play in Madrid regional leagues. That means renting a couple of buses every single weekend. They also promote national championships in Valladolid, play some tournaments in other cities, visit Portugal... And in even younger categories El Salvador has fielded up to 8 teams in a single tournament. Both teams have academy projects as well, not meaning a physical building with youngsters living there, but offering masterclasses in addition to usual training, receiving coaching lessons, offering grants in a private university...

Their senior semipro teams are a luxury and a promotion tool. Their fuel is families registering their kids and becoming socios. A few years ago when El Salvador was near bankruptcy many parents were extremely upset that their fees were risen to pay for the debt created paying salaries to foreigners.

There is money in Spanish rugby, but when you have so many young players (50% of registered players in Madrid region are minors) and women teams, there isn't much left for professional projects.


I'm aware that money can dry up quickly but that is still a lot for a rugby program in a country Tier 2. I live and play in NYC (though my club barely has a u18 team). We do have 2 or 3 senior teams that have to rent buses and travel multiple weekends as well as pay the ridiculously high expense of fields in NYC (around $150 for a few hours). And we only have 1 coach too (plus volunteer player/coaches). Our budget each year is probably under $50,000.

Of course, you guys have multiple youth programs which is a good sign of a healthy club.


$150? That's cheap mane!

In regards to the Youth budget, that's rather insane and amazing.


$150 for 1.5 hours of field space is cheap? I’m pretty sure that can buy a house where you live.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 17 Mar 2019, 05:22

Tobar wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
Tobar wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:VRAC and El Salvador U18, U16 and U14 play in Madrid regional leagues. That means renting a couple of buses every single weekend. They also promote national championships in Valladolid, play some tournaments in other cities, visit Portugal... And in even younger categories El Salvador has fielded up to 8 teams in a single tournament. Both teams have academy projects as well, not meaning a physical building with youngsters living there, but offering masterclasses in addition to usual training, receiving coaching lessons, offering grants in a private university...

Their senior semipro teams are a luxury and a promotion tool. Their fuel is families registering their kids and becoming socios. A few years ago when El Salvador was near bankruptcy many parents were extremely upset that their fees were risen to pay for the debt created paying salaries to foreigners.

There is money in Spanish rugby, but when you have so many young players (50% of registered players in Madrid region are minors) and women teams, there isn't much left for professional projects.


I'm aware that money can dry up quickly but that is still a lot for a rugby program in a country Tier 2. I live and play in NYC (though my club barely has a u18 team). We do have 2 or 3 senior teams that have to rent buses and travel multiple weekends as well as pay the ridiculously high expense of fields in NYC (around $150 for a few hours). And we only have 1 coach too (plus volunteer player/coaches). Our budget each year is probably under $50,000.

Of course, you guys have multiple youth programs which is a good sign of a healthy club.


$150? That's cheap mane!

In regards to the Youth budget, that's rather insane and amazing.


$150 for 1.5 hours of field space is cheap? I’m pretty sure that can buy a house where you live.


You might be able to rent a room at a Holiday Inn for that, but no you have no idea about field space rentals because they're high demand!!!

We should probably rent baseball fields in the off-season though, they go for much cheaper than a soccer field. We do have a partnership with a school so we don't have to pay for our practice pitch. I need to look at what the USAR Club liability insurance is because Scottsdale doesn't allow you to rent a facility without a $1MM liability policy.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 18 Mar 2019, 18:09

2019 Copa del Rey final poster:
Image

Tickets are available here, in case somebody fancies a rugby weekend in Madrid:
https://tickets.vbsports.es/es/events/f ... arca-rugbi

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby carbonero » Tue, 19 Mar 2019, 21:31

Nice tribute to Vlad on the one year anniversary of Brussels > http://www.espn.com/rugby/matchstats?ga ... gue=242041

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby 4N » Wed, 20 Mar 2019, 00:36

carbonero wrote:Nice tribute to Vlad on the one year anniversary of Brussels > http://www.espn.com/rugby/matchstats?ga ... gue=242041


The funny thing is people were actually claiming a penalty count like that.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 20 Mar 2019, 07:17

We should bring this guy to REIC. I guess he can't be a ref in Super rugby after this...

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 20 Mar 2019, 13:27

To lose a game by 3 points with that penalty count against you is astonishing ... you'd have to feel pretty aggrieved at the refereeing ... surely??

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 21 Mar 2019, 11:16

After establishing a series of regional workgroups for underage players without a physical academy, FER has made a further step and will have a permanent setup in Cheste, Valencia:
http://ferugby.es/noticias2.php?titulo= ... 20nacional

They claim players that so far trained three times per month will be now monitorised weekly.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 23 Mar 2019, 14:17

Liga Heineken resumes today. These are the standings with four rounds remaining:
Image

VRAC Quesos Entrepinares comfortably beat UBU-Colina Clinic during the REC break and keeps the lead. Burgos team is close to playoffs but after losing Emiliano Calle last January they will say goodbye to Tala Moli as well after their game this Sunday and then will lose a couple of players due to U20 European Championship, so I'm not sure they will be able to keep up the pace.

Bizkaia Gernika v Complutense Cisneros has been postponed for the n-th time and won't be played until after the regular season ends, an unfortunate outcome given how important this game is for relegation purposes. Hernani and La Vila won't be happy at all.

I leave live streaming for the couple of games taking place this afternoon...

Saturday 16:00 CET - Complutense Cisneros v Ampo Ordizia
http://api.gooru.live/v2.0/public/library/487163.html

Saturday 17:00 CET - VRAC Quesos Entrepinares v Bizkaia Gernika

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 24 Mar 2019, 10:45

Remaining games of Week 19...
Sunday 12:00 CET - Barça Rugbi v SilverStorm El Salvador
http://api.gooru.live/v2.0/public/library/487057.html

Sunday 12:00 CET - Hernani v Sanitas Alcobendas


Sunday 12:00 CET - La Vila v Senor Independiente


Sunday 12:45 CET - UBU-Colina Clinic v UE Santboiana
http://www.rtve.es/directo/teledeporte/

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 27 Mar 2019, 07:06

Liga Heineken 2018-19 - Week 19 - Results and Standings
VRAC Quesos Entrepinares 27 - 27 Bizkaia Gernika :shock: :shock: :shock: (leaders and current champions only could draw with a kick without time remaining)
Barça Rugbi 20 - 59 SilverStorm El Salvador
Hernani 15 - 14 Sanitas Alcobendas :shock:
Complutense Cisneros 18 - 35 Ampo Ordizia
UBU-Colina Clinic 29 - 15 UE Santboiana
La Vila 35 - 20 Senor Independiente

Image

With three rounds remaining only Alcobendas and Ordizia are secured of their current spots, hosting quarterfinals. Moreover there is a big issue ongoing as Hernani has won an appeal and Gernika v Cisneros must be played before the end of the league. That means a mid-week game for two amateur sides 400 km away from each other...

--

División de Honor B regular season is over and this is how promotion playoff looks like:
Image

Quite a few interesting teams since Ciencias Sevilla, Getxo and CRC Pozuelo have all been part of the top tier in recent years, CAU Valencia and Liceo Francés are historical clubs with great academies, Fénix has been doing an outstanding job in a 'new' city like Zaragoza and won Pool B and Bathco Santander is the closest thing to a fully pro setup given the support of their main sponsor. No disrespect for Ourense but they clearly look the weaker side. For the sake of Spanish rugby expansion I hope it's between Ciencias, Fénix and CAU Valencia.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 31 Mar 2019, 07:47

Liga Heineken 2018-19 - Week 20 - Live Streaming
12:00 CET - Barça Rugbi v UBU-Colina Clinic
http://api.gooru.live/v2.0/public/library/487487.html

12:00 CET - Bizkaia Gernika v UE Santboiana


12:00 CET - Senor Independiente v Hernani


12:30 CET - Sanitas Alcobendas v VRAC Quesos Entrepinares


12:30 CET - SilverStorm El Salvador v Complutense Cisneros


12:30 CET - Ampo Ordizia v La Vila
Last edited by Armchair Fan on Wed, 03 Apr 2019, 10:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby rugbyfanspain » Tue, 02 Apr 2019, 16:03

Armchair Fan wrote:Bizkaia Gernika v Complutense Cisneros has been postponed for the n-th time and won't be played until after the regular season ends, an unfortunate outcome given how important this game is for relegation purposes. Hernani and La Vila won't be happy at all.

A crazy resolution by the Appeals Committee of the Spanish Union is now forcing Bizkaia Gernika and Complutense Cisneros (with mostly amateur players, who work in all sorts of companies or study) to play 3 rugby games in 8 days. The risks to the players' health are evident. Let's remember what Jacques Rogge IOC President at the time said about the idea of getting rugby XV back into the Olympic Games: "We can't ask a team to play four or five games in 16 days. That is just not feasible." Those two teams would be playing 4 games in 15 days and 3 games in 8 days! Hopefully a higher court will reverse the decision on time.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 03 Apr 2019, 10:59

Liga Heineken 2018-19 - Week 20 - Results and Standings
Sanitas Alcobendas 17 - 16 VRAC Quesos Entrepinares :shock:
SilverStorm El Salvador 54 - 31 Complutense Cisneros
Ampo Ordizia 35 - 28 La Vila
Barça Rugbi 40 - 3 UBU-Colina Clinic
Bizkaia Gernika 13 - 13 UE Santboiana
Aldro Independiente 36 - 31 Hernani

Image

rugbyfanspain wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Bizkaia Gernika v Complutense Cisneros has been postponed for the n-th time and won't be played until after the regular season ends, an unfortunate outcome given how important this game is for relegation purposes. Hernani and La Vila won't be happy at all.

A crazy resolution by the Appeals Committee of the Spanish Union is now forcing Bizkaia Gernika and Complutense Cisneros (with mostly amateur players, who work in all sorts of companies or study) to play 3 rugby games in 8 days. The risks to the players' health are evident. Let's remember what Jacques Rogge IOC President at the time said about the idea of getting rugby XV back into the Olympic Games: "We can't ask a team to play four or five games in 16 days. That is just not feasible." Those two teams would be playing 4 games in 15 days and 3 games in 8 days! Hopefully a higher court will reverse the decision on time.

And this is the kind of things that taint a competition and prove it's more amateur than pro... First, not having an alternative to a field we all know becomes a mudpool every single season. Then accepting subsequent postponements due to players called by national teams, including one that hasn't played a single minute with Cisneros this year...

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 05 Apr 2019, 06:38

Santboiana wants to hold a couple of New Zealand v France test matches in Spain as part of its centenary festivities... One of them would take place in Barcelona. They want to play a friendly with Stade Toulousain as well:
https://as.com/masdeporte/2019/04/04/re ... fgSivhGR3J

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