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Spanish rugby

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 08 Jul 2019, 19:28

Armchair Fan wrote:Ha. Short answer: no.

Long answer. Have we got any info on Continental Shield going ahead? Can a club afford to engage into a competition it doesn't know anything about nearing mid-July?

I know Spanish clubs are very fusspot and they could have played in Europe if they really wanted to but they have a point. They can't risk a professional season planification for a competition they will not win, their fans don't care and whose existence is even doubtful.


Totally agree, we cannot insist on professionalism to take part then organise it in such an amateur fashion.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 16:27

Transfer market is at full steam in SilverStorm El Salvador with three stellar signings:
- Tomás Carrió (ex-VRAC, comes back from Argentina)
- Martin du Toit (Southern Kings)
- Juan Pablo Socino (Edinburgh)

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 18:27

Socino is a massive signing, is that a burgeoning Spanish market or a soft UK/France one? Little of both probably.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 18:47

If you aren't sure about your future in UK or France it's a pleasant place to settle with your family, especially if you are a native Spanish speaker... It's been always an asset in any sport to attract players.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby beber » Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 19:03

Armchair Fan wrote:Transfer market is at full steam in SilverStorm El Salvador with three stellar signings:
- Tomás Carrió (ex-VRAC, comes back from Argentina)
- Martin du Toit (Southern Kings)
- Juan Pablo Socino (Edinburgh)


3 massive signings! Reminds me when the club signed Andy Long, Joe McDonnell and David Palu
kiwi scrumhalf Kaide Whiting (Otago) is also joining the team

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 19:27

sk 88 wrote:Socino is a massive signing, is that a burgeoning Spanish market or a soft UK/France one? Little of both probably.


Not enough space for foreign players in UK/France like there were before?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby beber » Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 19:40

Tobar wrote:
sk 88 wrote:Socino is a massive signing, is that a burgeoning Spanish market or a soft UK/France one? Little of both probably.


Not enough space for foreign players in UK/France like there were before?


In France (Top14 & ProD2), team must field an average 16 JIFF (players from french academies system) per game from the 23. It said that now there are 10% less foreign players in theses leagues, that's mean about 50 less foreigners than few years ago

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 19:44

It probably has an influence, but I'd say that the profile of the signings from some top Spanish clubs is changing too. And I wouldn't discard neither how much Russian clubs offering more money for the very same foreign players (from South Africa and New Zealand) forced them to change their mindset. Some DHB clubs saw their key players go to Russia before the end of the season, then Chris Eaton left VRAC to go there as well...

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Sat, 13 Jul 2019, 17:06

Obviously a combo of a few things here but it leads to a quality player going to Spain (and a Spanish speaker too, so that doesn’t hurt).

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 13 Jul 2019, 17:37

Armchair Fan wrote:It probably has an influence, but I'd say that the profile of the signings from some top Spanish clubs is changing too. And I wouldn't discard neither how much Russian clubs offering more money for the very same foreign players (from South Africa and New Zealand) forced them to change their mindset. Some DHB clubs saw their key players go to Russia before the end of the season, then Chris Eaton left VRAC to go there as well...


Would you care to expand on that point? In what sense has this changed the club's mindsets, what was it before and what is it now?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby 4N » Sun, 14 Jul 2019, 17:06


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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 14 Jul 2019, 18:17

video won't load for me annoyingly.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Sun, 21 Jul 2019, 23:43

There appear to be around 17 u18 Spanish players in French/English club academies

https://twitter.com/t2rugby/status/1152 ... 84096?s=21

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 24 Jul 2019, 19:44

VRAC is suing FER in front of civil courts after main Spanish sports body rejected their claims. In a PR they say Spanish Sports Council protects Alfonso Feijóo and they hint he could be banned to rule over FER:
https://twitter.com/VRAC/status/1154111339805192192

This case goes in parallel to their other denounce to FER and Heineken in front of antitrust bodies, but they are both related to TV broadcasting rights. Moreover, the Liga Nacional de Rugby (Clubs Association) included a clause in their inscription to Liga Heineken claiming that they may claim compensation.

This is a disaster for Spanish rugby whoever wins the war. But let's remind everybody that as ugly as FER tactics may be, TV doesn't generate revenue: Heineken and FER actually pay for the league to be broadcast.

sk 88 wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:It probably has an influence, but I'd say that the profile of the signings from some top Spanish clubs is changing too. And I wouldn't discard neither how much Russian clubs offering more money for the very same foreign players (from South Africa and New Zealand) forced them to change their mindset. Some DHB clubs saw their key players go to Russia before the end of the season, then Chris Eaton left VRAC to go there as well...


Would you care to expand on that point? In what sense has this changed the club's mindsets, what was it before and what is it now?

I believe they are trying to sign more consolidated players as well as those who are fed up of professional leagues and want more stability instead of looking for youngsters from SH. We are also seeing how they look for players in DHB and Portugal so their bets are less risky.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 12:16

Registered players in 2018-19 season according to FER: 37241 (+4.4%). Growth is slowing down...

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby beber » Sun, 28 Jul 2019, 22:04

Santboiana signed south africain prop Henri Boshoff from Timisoara

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 11:08

Euro Basque Rugby Challenge was presented today. It's the result of the project launched by Basque authorities during 2018 EPCR finals in Bilbao, aiming at creating their own competition together with French Basque clubs.

Aviron Bayonnais and Biarritz Olympique will enter their Espoirs sides as well as Anglet (Fédérale 1) against Ordizia, Hernani, Getxo and Bera Bera in a sort of preseason tournament to be played between August and September. A second division and women competition will follow. Durango even decided not to enter DHB (Spanish second tier) to focus on this future All Basque crossborder league.

https://www.naiz.eus/eu/actualidad/noti ... -hasiko-da

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby 4N » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 12:09

Armchair Fan wrote:Euro Basque Rugby Challenge was presented today. It's the result of the project launched by Basque authorities during 2018 EPCR finals in Bilbao, aiming at creating their own competition together with French Basque clubs.

Aviron Bayonnais and Biarritz Olympique will enter their Espoirs sides as well as Anglet (Fédérale 1) against Ordizia, Hernani, Getxo and Bera Bera in a sort of preseason tournament to be played between August and September. A second division and women competition will follow. Durango even decided not to enter DHB (Spanish second tier) to focus on this future All Basque crossborder league.

https://www.naiz.eus/eu/actualidad/noti ... -hasiko-da


:thumbup:

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 13:10

This is cool. It may just be the espoirs but a continued relationship with clubs in the region is good for the sport, especially since some are going to be french pros. And it’ll surely get some extra Spanish players into a pro setup.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 31 Jul 2019, 00:38

As a consequence of the approval of new B-teams/Reserves/U23 league, DHB has been revamped because of free spots and a number of teams relegated or non-promoted have been included in the pools for next season. Others will have to face a playoff next month...

División de Honor B - Pool A
Bizkaia Gernika (relegated from Liga Heineken)
Getxo Artea
Campus Universitario Ourense
AVK Bera Bera
CRAT Residencia Rialta A Coruña
Babyauto Zarautz
Uribealdea
AVIA Eibar
Real Oviedo (promoted)
Gaztedi Vitoria (promoted)
Kaleido Universidade de Vigo (initially relegated, admitted to replace VRAC B)
Universitario Bilbao OR Ferrol (lost promotion playoffs, will play to replace El Salvador Emerging)

División de Honor B - Pool B
La Vila (relegated from Liga Heineken)
Bantierra Fénix Zaragoza
CAU Valencia
Les Abelles
Sant Cugat
L'Hospitalet
Poble Nou
XV Babarians Calvià
ANDEMEN Tatami
BUC Barcelona
XV Murcia (promoted)
Rugby Valencia (initially relegated, admitted to replace UE Santboiana B)

División de Honor B - Pool C
CRC Pozuelo
Liceo Francés
CD Arquitectura
Jaén Rugby
Andalucía Bulls Marbella
Extremadura CAR Cáceres
Unión Rugby Almería
Ingenieros Industriales Las Rozas
CR Málaga (promoted)
CAU Madrid (promoted)
CAR Sevilla (lost promotion playoffs, admitted to replace Alcobendas B)
XV Hortaleza (lost promotion playoffs, admitted to replace Cisneros Z)

As you can see in Pool C we will have up to FOUR newly-promoted teams. For many, this was a wasted opportunity to reduce second-tier from 12 teams in each pool to 10, making it a more reasonable season for a league with plenty of amateur players. But there are many interesting projects. Big cities like Oviedo, Vitoria, Bilbao or Ferrol, Murcia and Málaga will be represented at a national level, which can't be a bad thing: that's over 1.5 million people. And some clubs are upping their hand, with the surprising rebranding of Marbella having been announced this week as part of an externalisation move for their first team... It sounds a bit shaky, but let's see how it works as they really intend to become pro.

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2019 - Cities represented at men's national level
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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 07 Aug 2019, 19:02

beber wrote:Santboiana signed south africain prop Henri Boshoff from Timisoara

And today they announced he won't be coming due to a serious knee injury leading to his retirement. He's the second confirmed player that Santboiana loses before the start of the season...

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 07 Aug 2019, 19:28

Armchair Fan wrote:As a consequence of the approval of new B-teams/Reserves/U23 league, DHB has been revamped because of free spots and a number of teams relegated or non-promoted have been included in the pools for next season. Others will have to face a playoff next month...

División de Honor B - Pool A
Bizkaia Gernika (relegated from Liga Heineken)
Getxo Artea
Campus Universitario Ourense
AVK Bera Bera
CRAT Residencia Rialta A Coruña
Babyauto Zarautz
Uribealdea
AVIA Eibar
Real Oviedo (promoted)
Gaztedi Vitoria (promoted)
Kaleido Universidade de Vigo (initially relegated, admitted to replace VRAC B)
Universitario Bilbao OR Ferrol (lost promotion playoffs, will play to replace El Salvador Emerging)

División de Honor B - Pool B
La Vila (relegated from Liga Heineken)
Bantierra Fénix Zaragoza
CAU Valencia
Les Abelles
Sant Cugat
L'Hospitalet
Poble Nou
XV Babarians Calvià
ANDEMEN Tatami
BUC Barcelona
XV Murcia (promoted)
Rugby Valencia (initially relegated, admitted to replace UE Santboiana B)

División de Honor B - Pool C
CRC Pozuelo
Liceo Francés
CD Arquitectura
Jaén Rugby
Andalucía Bulls Marbella
Extremadura CAR Cáceres
Unión Rugby Almería
Ingenieros Industriales Las Rozas
CR Málaga (promoted)
CAU Madrid (promoted)
CAR Sevilla (lost promotion playoffs, admitted to replace Alcobendas B)
XV Hortaleza (lost promotion playoffs, admitted to replace Cisneros Z)

As you can see in Pool C we will have up to FOUR newly-promoted teams. For many, this was a wasted opportunity to reduce second-tier from 12 teams in each pool to 10, making it a more reasonable season for a league with plenty of amateur players. But there are many interesting projects. Big cities like Oviedo, Vitoria, Bilbao or Ferrol, Murcia and Málaga will be represented at a national level, which can't be a bad thing: that's over 1.5 million people. And some clubs are upping their hand, with the surprising rebranding of Marbella having been announced this week as part of an externalisation move for their first team... It sounds a bit shaky, but let's see how it works as they really intend to become pro.

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2019 - Cities represented at men's national level
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Cool.

Question:
What about Canarias?

And is there rugby in Ceuta and Melilla?
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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 07 Aug 2019, 20:01

Canarias has some rugby (its men's XV league had four entrants last season, but there are a few others playing 7s, touch or not registering but hosting touring clubs) but they constantly decline to take part in DHB promotion playoffs due to high costs. In fact this season they didn't even bother to finish their league in time for promotion playoffs...

Nevertheless you see some players jump to mainland Spain to play at a higher level, like José Manuel Coronado in SilverStorm El Salvador. And La Laguna or Mahoh have entered teams in Spanish underage championships and tournaments. It's reasonably healthy but integration into season-long national competitions would be problematic due to costs for both the Canarian team and the rest of Group C clubs. And from a personal POV I believe it has lots of untapped potential. It would be a great place for Sevens and a possible prop mine due to Canarian traditional wrestling.

During last General Assembly FER announced that Ceuta Rugby Union was going to be admitted and they have some clubs registered so it could be entirely possible that we start watching a 7s regional team anytime soon entering Spanish Championships, even though I believe only one of them plays regularly in Andalucía some beach rugby and even hosts a tournament. Melilla had a club that played some friendlies in Andalucía as well but I have no idea whether it is still active. In any case both seem to have been boosted by the growth of military rugby, where Ceuta and Melilla field a united team.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 08 Aug 2019, 01:31

Armchair Fan wrote:Registered players in 2018-19 season according to FER: 37241 (+4.4%). Growth is slowing down...


There's still growth. But you wouldn't want it to dip any further. Would be interesting to see what are the factors in the slow down and whether they can be directly addressed to reverse and bring the growth % back closer to the 10% mark.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 08 Aug 2019, 07:25

We will not know because nobody here seems concerned. FER opted to hide that deceleration during its last General Assembly by giving total number from 2014-2019, so for example nobody noticed that in fact we have lost 5% of women players whereas they grow basically everywhere. And when I've expressed concern in Spanish forums they just say that kids don't play sport these days and blah, blah, blah which is BS since overall registered athletes have grown by 2.8%, so we're not in a general context where people is stopping to play.

One reason seems clear: lack of enough facilities in big cities like Valencia and Barcelona. Clubs from Valencia have been put in the hard situation of having to reject kids in their academies because they haven't got enough physical space. And solutions will take some time and won't be perfect since some new fields are being projected only in the outskirts of the city, which may not be the ideal situation to attract new players.

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