Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Georgia (Lelos)

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 13:01

You do not want Kirwan. He achieved nothing at Italy or Japan in my opinion.

I think the best coach at present without a head coach role is Mark Hammett (Sunwolves and Japan last year should have defeated Scotland) but I get the impression he prefers to work in New Zealand rather than overseas. .

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Wendigo7 » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 14:37

I change my mind.

Georgia need to play Italy now. That Italian performance was absolutely and unequivocally atrocious. If you can't beat them I'm really dismayed.

Italy were truly, truly, truly awful. :(

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby datodato » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 14:45

Hammond is a good idea too.

What I don't get about Italy is this: How do they manage to loose that often!? I mean O'Shea hasn't won a game in the Six Nations for two consecutive Seasons now. It's their 17th year of playing in the 6N, they have regular tests against T1 Nations from NZ to Australia and all those games and money and coaches and professional teams and players in the top leagues and so much more - they still loose and loose and loose. O'Shea, Catt and Venter. That's like an All Star coaching set up!!! I DON'T GET IT! WHY?

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 15:03

Poor youth coaching leads to poor skills in players. See their youth results which have been poor for ever.

Centralising their clubs into two regions that just lose and lose and lose mean few of their players know what it takes to win matches when they get in with a sniff. It also leads to a lack of options as they only have a few players playing regularly and a lack of tactical variety as there are only two real head coaches contributing to their system.

They are a rich, populous country with lots and lots of amateur players. Its in their unions hands but they administer the game poorly, and without relegation there is no loss of status to shock people into changing them.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby beber » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 15:20

Georgia U18 sponsored by Altrad ?
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby fullbackace » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 18:16

datodato wrote:I'm thinking about a new coach after 2019. I believe that Haig is a great coach and he helped Georgia going forward but after the RWC 19 we will need a top coach with fresh ideas and someone who can propel Georgia in the Top10. Here are some ideas.

(1) Ewan McKenzie: A great great coach who was treated so bad by the ARU and his players. He is a class act and would be my no1 choice for the role. With Graham allready coached Reds and Georgia maybe he can help out here.

(2) Nick Mallett: What a coach! Great guy. Would be wonderful. Talks a bit too much but is passionate, loves the forward-based game and would bring huge experience. With the right enviroment and the chance to play against T1 opposition more often (and the right amount of money) he might even think about it.

(3) Robbie Deans: I really like him. Now I know there are many critics of him out there but I think he was mistreated by the Aussies as was McKenzie.

(4) John Kirwan: Kiwi, knows Haig and would bring continuity for the team.

(5) Some ITM-Cup coach or South African. I would love to see a good South African coach for Georgia.

So you understand: I'm just dreaming a bit here of course. But McKenzie is a real possibility I believe.


When we're talking about coaches we'll have to ask how much effort are they gonna put in. For example for Haig Coaching the national team is just 1/10th of his job. He lives in Georgia he scouts Georgian youth across the country he also acts as an agent sending Georgian kids to European teams who trust him now that he's made gazillion transfers. He holds training year round for local National team players, He gives advice to local coaches, he helps with youth teams.

Now how many of the new names are gonna do that? They'll probably ask twice the salary and then just come to Georgia for Test games and leave as soon as they're done. We don't want another Tim Lane.


Also a French coach would be nice. You can get a better quality Frenchie.
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby datodato » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 18:42

fullbackace wrote:When we're talking about coaches we'll have to ask how much effort are they gonna put in. For example for Haig Coaching the national team is just 1/10th of his job. He lives in Georgia he scouts Georgian youth across the country he also acts as an agent sending Georgian kids to European teams who trust him now that he's made gazillion transfers. He holds training year round for local National team players, He gives advice to local coaches, he helps with youth teams.

Now how many of the new names are gonna do that? They'll probably ask twice the salary and then just come to Georgia for Test games and leave as soon as they're done. We don't want another Tim Lane.


Also a French coach would be nice. You can get a better quality Frenchie.


I agree. But don't you think we need something more? If we wan't to be in the Top10 we have spend some money on a good headcoach who is based in Georgia and a development coach who also is. Agree that a french coach would be also great with contacts to France.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Coloradoan » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 19:14

Unless there is an obvious issue with Haig, it would be wise to keep him as long as he wants to be there. You guys are extremely lucky to have a coach of his quality who is as committed to the job as he is, as FullbackAce points out. Many T2 national team coaches don't even live in the country they coach and just fly in for assemblies. They also tend to have one foot out the door, always looking for better opportunities. To have someone of his level so invested and involved is huge and more important than anything for the future of Georgian rugby IMO.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby fullbackace » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 19:45

Coloradoan wrote:Unless there is an obvious issue with Haig, it would be wise to keep him as long as he wants to be there. You guys are extremely lucky to have a coach of his quality who is as committed to the job as he is, as FullbackAce points out. Many T2 national team coaches don't even live in the country they coach and just fly in for assemblies. They also tend to have one foot out the door, always looking for better opportunities. To have someone of his level so invested and involved is huge and more important than anything for the future of Georgian rugby IMO.

Yep, Tier 2 teams except Japan have problems finding a dedicated coach. We will have those problems and more

1. We can't pay millions
2. We aren't that attractive of an opportunity for an ambitious coach
3. We are a non-English speaking country where a lot of coaches simply don't want to go let alone settle. And no Khachpuri and Hospitality won't change the fact that they could be living a cozier life in a tier 1 nation.
4. Even if they do all that are they going to volunteer to work extra to help Georgian rugby grow or are they just going to run the practice go home and say everything else "isn't my conern"

I'd say it's far more likely we get one of those ambitious coaches with attitude than another humble workhorse like Haig.

A lot of my countrymen tend to be overly optimistic sometimes, they think they'll get someone better than Haig, I think we have 9 out of 10 chance of getting someone faar worse than Haig.

____________________________

Yes there are some complaints I have about Milton's style of coaching but those are minor details compared to what other Tier 2 nations have... Hell USA can't seem to get a hold of a coach that is not A) Retarded or B) Completely disinterested in US rugby. Canada hasn't been thriving with their coaching either. Lyn Howells did well for Romania but he already had one foot in retirement when he arrived.

Pacific Islands have coaches who have roots in PI and are dedicated to their Islands.

What gives us hope that we'll find a coach better than Milton?
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby datodato » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 19:51

Coloradoan wrote:Unless there is an obvious issue with Haig, it would be wise to keep him as long as he wants to be there. You guys are extremely lucky to have a coach of his quality who is as committed to the job as he is, as FullbackAce points out. Many T2 national team coaches don't even live in the country they coach and just fly in for assemblies. They also tend to have one foot out the door, always looking for better opportunities. To have someone of his level so invested and involved is huge and more important than anything for the future of Georgian rugby IMO.


You'r both right. He would be a very very good director of rugby. Him in that role (like Cockerill) and someone else as Head Coach. I'm also very impressed be his commitment, not so much about his coaching of the senior team. But I have to say this: His feeling for talent is really enourmous just enourmous. I will only mention two players: Sharikadze and Lobzhanidze. I'm a die hard Georgian Rugby Fan and watch every game possible. But when they started playing for Georgia I thought: Good boys but not good enough. He knew far better, spotted the talent and developed these boys. In that regard, I mean youth management and academy development, I would rate him higher than any coach in Europe to be fair.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby fullbackace » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 19:59

datodato wrote:
Coloradoan wrote:Unless there is an obvious issue with Haig, it would be wise to keep him as long as he wants to be there. You guys are extremely lucky to have a coach of his quality who is as committed to the job as he is, as FullbackAce points out. Many T2 national team coaches don't even live in the country they coach and just fly in for assemblies. They also tend to have one foot out the door, always looking for better opportunities. To have someone of his level so invested and involved is huge and more important than anything for the future of Georgian rugby IMO.


You'r both right. He would be a very very good director of rugby. Him in that role (like Cockerill) and someone else as Head Coach. I'm also very impressed be his commitment, not so much about his coaching of the senior team. But I have to say this: His feeling for talent is really enourmous just enourmous. I will only mention two players: Sharikadze and Lobzhanidze. I'm a die hard Georgian Rugby Fan and watch every game possible. But when they started playing for Georgia I thought: Good boys but not good enough. He knew far better, spotted the talent and developed these boys. In that regard, I mean youth management and academy development, I would rate him higher than any coach in Europe to be fair.


Why would he stay in Georgia if we demote him though? He has built up a great reputation by now. Any Tier 2 team would want to get him as soon as he becomes available, not to mention a lot of clubs. USA/Canada would love to have Haig considering his work ethic and professionalism. And as a young coach Haig would want to move on with his career not get lost in a vague youth manager position of Georgia.

Just my 2 cents, If we let go of Haig we will lose a great coach/manager/scout/ambassador and instead get what in return ? probably not much.
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby datodato » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 20:12

fullbackace wrote:Yep, Tier 2 teams except Japan have problems finding a dedicated coach. We will have those problems and more

1. We can't pay millions
2. We aren't that attractive of an opportunity for an ambitious coach
3. We are a non-English speaking country where a lot of coaches simply don't want to go let alone settle. And no Khachpuri and Hospitality won't change the fact that they could be living a cozier life in a tier 1 nation.
4. Even if they do all that are they going to volunteer to work extra to help Georgian rugby grow or are they just going to run the practice go home and say everything else "isn't my conern"

I'd say it's far more likely we get one of those ambitious coaches with attitude than another humble workhorse like Haig.

A lot of my countrymen tend to be overly optimistic sometimes, they think they'll get someone better than Haig, I think we have 9 out of 10 chance of getting someone faar worse than Haig.

____________________________

Yes there are some complaints I have about Milton's style of coaching but those are minor details compared to what other Tier 2 nations have... Hell USA can't seem to get a hold of a coach that is not A) Retarded or B) Completely disinterested in US rugby. Canada hasn't been thriving with their coaching either. Lyn Howells did well for Romania but he already had one foot in retirement when he arrived.

Pacific Islands have coaches who have roots in PI and are dedicated to their Islands.

What gives us hope that we'll find a coach better than Milton?


Keep Haig as a director of Rugby and ad a great Head Coach. Let's be honest: Georgia made huge steps forward under Haig. We won against Samoa twice, won against Japan, the PI tour, RWC and so on. BUT: The matches against Ireland and Wales were both not good. We also lost against USA in Georgia (!) and the two main problems in our first team still exist:
1 - We play bad when we play against bad opposition (Namibia 15, Russia last week, Belgium,...). Something serious is lacking there, I don't know what it is.
2 - We play worse when we play against very good opposition (Ireland, Argentina, Scotland,...). Our boys do not have the confidence to win this game. (a) because they do really believe in their own team or (b) they don't believe in the game plan to be good enough to win against bigger nations. If we would have a strong 1st Team coach we could eliminate problem 1 and 2(b) and concentrate on developing good enough players to gain confidence.

I know that is just theory and I trust the guys in the GRU 100% to do the right decision, they know all this stuff far better. But maybe I'm right on one point or the other.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby fullbackace » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 20:20

datodato wrote:Keep Haig as a director of Rugby and ad a great Head Coach.

He doesn't want it, he wants to be the head coach, When he's done as Head coach of Georgia he'll go be head coach somewhere else.

Let's be honest: Georgia made huge steps forward under Haig. We won against Samoa twice, won against Japan, the PI tour, RWC and so on. BUT: The matches against Ireland and Wales were both not good. We also lost against USA in Georgia (!) and the two main problems in our first team still exist:
1 - We play bad when we play against bad opposition (Namibia 15, Russia last week, Belgium,...). Something serious is lacking there, I don't know what it is.
2 - We play worse when we play against very good opposition (Ireland, Argentina, Scotland,...). Our boys do not have the confidence to win this game. (a) because they do really believe in their own team or (b) they don't believe in the game plan to be good enough to win against bigger nations. If we would have a strong 1st Team coach we could eliminate problem 1 and 2(b) and concentrate on developing good enough players to gain confidence.

I know that is just theory and I trust the guys in the GRU 100% to do the right decision, they know all this stuff far better. But maybe I'm right on one point or the other.


Here's what I think, Keep Haig as a head coach until we get a Franchise in pro12/SR/ProD2 and then make Haig the coach for the franchise while getting a french coach(or Ilia Zedginidze) for the National team. :thumbup:
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby datodato » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 20:38

fullbackace wrote: Here's what I think, Keep Haig as a head coach until we get a Franchise in pro12/SR/ProD2 and then make Haig the coach for the franchise while getting a french coach(or Ilia Zedginidze) for the National team. :thumbup:


Here's what I think: What you think but without the Zedginidze stuff. Get a proper, internationaly experienced coach. Like the ones I mentioned. Let Zedginidze go to a ProD2 club or so and work his way up to a good team - then think about making him head coach in 10-20 years or even better - never.

Everything else you say makes sense. But do you remember Martin Johnson "the coach"? Yeah...

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby beber » Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 00:10

There is a very good paper today on L'Equipe about Georgia. I love Mamukashvili's conclusion. I'm trying to translate this :

Georgia, the "little big" behind the door

Archidominator in 6 Nations B, ahead of Italy on World Rugby rankings, Georgia is dreaming to play Six Nations. But the powerful organizers are looking at this little Caucasian country with disdain.

In the hotel Paseo Del Arte in Madrid, an old couple is waiting the elevator, but when the doors open on Nodar Cheishvili, Giorgi Nemsadze and Jaba Bregvadze, the couple step back one step and say "no, thanks, we will take the next". "They believe we eat childs" says Giorgi Nemsadze, 32 years old, 69 caps. "Some people even think that the georgians train by boxing against bears" laugh Milton Haig, the headcoach, 52 years old from New Zealand, who live in Tbilisi since 2012.

recommended by his mate Vern Cotter (they coached together Bay Of Plenty), Haig take part of the growth of Georgian rugby (4 million inhabitants) since 5 years. "At my debut, there was 7000 registred players. Now, they are 11000". Under him, Georgia lost only one 6 Nations B game. Last week, they won their 19th straight win in this competition, beating Russia 28-14 in front of 50 000 fans. This sunday, in Bucharest, they will play against Romania, in order to win their 4th Gran Slam in a row.

The day before playing Spain, in Medina del Campo (they won 20-10), two weeks ago, the second row Konstantin Mikautadze, who plays in France since eight years (currently at Montpellier) tells the situation : "We have dominated this championship for years, our last loss at home was in 2004. At this time I never heard of rugby, I played basketball. When I changed school, I discovered there is a sport with an oval ball. I could not believe it..." Like other leaders of the team, who are between 25 and 30 years old, he started rugby in precarious situation in the mid-2000s. There was only two rugby grounds, freed from Soviet domination in 1991, and youth players learn rugby on clay or concrete grounds. "about 20 meters by 40m, in the better case. The quarter of a real ground" explain Mikautadze. "The lack of skills of the backs comes mainly from there" says Milton Haig. "There was no space to pass the ball or made tactical kicks"

"we play only one big game per year, during november internationals" Milton Haig

Step by step, Georgian rugby gets structured. Today, even if he counts only three sponsors and tickets are sold 5 laris (€2) and TV don't pay rights, every game of the Didi10 (Georgian championship) is retransmitted. Since the last RWC, where Georgia won two games, players are recognized along the streets and childs are plays with rugby balls in parks.

Now, half of the team is playing domestic competitions. "Four years ago, they were only 3 or 4" explains Mamukashvili, who is playing for Toulon. "But Milton Haig has set up a system where best players of each club are made available two or three days per week in our national center, Shevardeni. It's like Marcoussis but a lot smaller" The most promising young players of the Akademia regularly meet the cadors of the Championship and all are supervised by Haig and his assistants.

"But our opportunities to grow are dwindling" tells Merab Sharikadze, who is the captain when Gorgodze is not playing. "Soon we will stagnate if nothing changes" Currently 12th, 3 ranks ahead of Italy who plays the Six Nations since 2000, Georgia suffers from the lack of game against better opponents. Haig "we play only one big game per year, during november internationals".

Image

So, since few years, voices rise, more and more, for the inclusion of Georgia in Six Nations. Some personalities like Clive Woodward, former England headcoach and winner of the 2003 RWC, support the opening of Six Nations. The Seven Nations or a play off between the winner of 6 Nations A and 6 Nations B. "No chance" responds John Feehan, chief of the Six Nations. "Six Nations is a closed tournament, it belongs to the six team, the 6 best teams in Europe, and we hare happy like that".

However, on March 9th, Rugby Europe - the federation of 49 European countries - officially filed a request for a structural change. "It's not going to happen in the near future," says Haig, realistic. "But now that the machine is launched, we will not stop making our voice heard. Our goal is not to integrate the Six Nations at any cost but to find opponents that will allow us to grow."

Last year, after the RWC, Haig, former director of advertising in a New Zealand newspaper, the Wanganui Chronicle, crisscrossed the meetings, inviting himself to the table of rugby world leaders. "In addition to my role as coach, I often represent Georgia to the government bodies". World Rugby, SANZAAR, he is everywhere. "Lately, we introduced a project to integrate Super Rugby. It's under study. But the most embarrassing thing about all this is that we sometimes have the impression of asking charity from the Tier1 nations. We want above all to bring something! Of course, we are not idiots, we understood that to enter the Six Nations Tournament, we had to pay a fee. But when we ask how many, no one answers us".

"Rugby is our family and they slam the door in our faces. It's humiliating" Merab Sharikadze.


Georgians also realized that a country like theirs, stuck in the East, on the edge of Europe and Asia is not very attractive, and a trip to Rome was better than a trip to Tbilisi, a city for which there is no direct flight from the United Kingdom or France. "They don't know what are they missing" says Haig "They would discover khinkali and katchapouri, they would learn that the wine was invented here more than eight thousand years ago, and that, after God, tourists are the The most important people on earth. Here, the rugby is supported by a big bank, Bank of Tbilisi, the Government and some rich patrons".

Players know they have to win games to make known their position. Merab Sharikadze, who stutied two years in England thanks to rugby, tells us "Rugby is a protectionist sport. There is only 20 decent teams in the world and you know why? Because big nations think this sport is their own sport. For us, as players, it's frustrating. Rugby is our family and they slam the door in our faces. It's humiliating. If a football (soccer) team deserves to play Euro, the team will. We are denied this opportunity"

Their struggle is silent, but week after week, on all the fields, the Georgian players are trying to leave a trace. "Four years ago", Shalva Mamukashvili says, "to symbolize our fight, a former player of the team had the idea to embroider, on the back of our jerseys, a vine and leaves spread out. Years ago, when the Georgian soldiers went to war, and it often happened, their family gave them grape pips they sewed in the back of their military jacket. And if they died in battle, and their bodies were not found long afterwards, a vine grew on the spot where they had fallen. Our generation may not know the Six Nations Tournament, but one day it will come because rugby can continues like this. On that day, the young people who succeed us will harvest the grapes of the vines that we have planted for years.."

Dominique Issartel, at Medina del Campo (Spain)

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby mestre » Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 01:21

OUT OF TOPIC

Sorry fellows, I am trying to get to last year informations on the Rugby Europe site, but with no success.

They show a link to "ARCHIVES" but it doesn't work.
How can I get last year U-18 trophy and championship informations, please.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby 4N » Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 15:20

Lelos backs going forward...

9 Lobzhanidze (Aprasidze)
10 Khmaladze? (Lobzhanidze)
11 Mtchedlidze
12 Sharikadze
13 Koshadze
14 Svanidze
15 Matiashvili

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby fullbackace » Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 15:32

Sichinava at #14 probably
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Rugby7 » Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 15:44

mestre wrote:OUT OF TOPIC

Sorry fellows, I am trying to get to last year informations on the Rugby Europe site, but with no success.

They show a link to "ARCHIVES" but it doesn't work.
How can I get last year U-18 trophy and championship informations, please.

Thanks in advance.
http://old.rugbyeurope.tv/rubrique-23.htm
http://old.rugbyeurope.tv/archives-competition-117.htm
http://old.rugbyeurope.tv/archives-group-288.htm
http://old.rugbyeurope.tv/archives-group-289.htm

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby datodato » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 09:11

Some thoughts on the REC 2017 and the game against Romania:

1. - Who is the new forwards coach? We lost our scrums, our line-outs and had no foward ball from the carrying our forwards did. We tried to throw offloads and pass it to the second attacking line but the forwards did'nt create any momentum by going forward first. The standards were terrible. The romanians in the scrums drove early all the time and they drove not straight pushing against the georgian tight head. The combination of the early push and not driving streight resulted in the movement towards the georgian no3 after the set and before the ball came in. What leads me to my next point...

2. - Why the hell is Gorgodze captain?! He is complaining more than Cristiano Ronaldo, he is a theatralic actor on the field. As a captain he should have talked to the ref about the scrums and kept calm. At the end he wasn't playing rugby any more just running after the ref and shouting and whining! It was shameful. He is a great player but he hurts the team by his actions. I can't remember McCaw or John Smit whining for 70 min a game, shouting at his own players as Gorgodze did to Khmaladze. Once Khmaladze went out of the defensive line because the ball was out of the romanian ruck so he was legaly pushing the defensive line but the ref said falsly that it was offside. Then our captain just shouted at Khmaladze! I mean I haven't seen that at any high level rugby... It showes you a lot of things.

3. - Bradley Davies is now coach in Romania. 100% he was involved in the game. The Romanians read every set piece backs moves in defense. In attack they hit the 13-winger channel when they opened the ball and kicked a lot. Tells me 2 things: Our weakness are 1. defense between 13 and our winger and most importantly our no15 who is a great, great man but he didn't cought a single high ball under pressure since I watch rugby and even the high kicks where he is not under pressure he often doesn't catch. So if we just could develop 3 players 11-14-15 who could catch the ball, we then may complain about not being in the six nations and playing against Leigh Halfpenny or Anthony Watson.

4. - Who had the great idea of putting Lomidze in the 2nd row? Turned out to be the most stupid thing after putting Bergamasco at 9. You can see how much he hates playing 2nd row. He sees himselfe as a georgian Parisse, not as a georgian Bakkies. And he plays the way he sees himselfe. Why don't they play Gorgodze in the 2nd row and Otia Giorgadze at 6, Tkhilaishvili at 7 and Beka Gorgadze at 8?

5. - The REC showed the value of Chilanchava. He might be the strongest scrummager even Georgia had for a long time and he is very strong over the ball as well. A strong no3 is the hardest thing you can find in the world, we are blessed to have Levan (and Dudu). Before that we even had Ziraka... And Tabidze is a good young lad, he will be a strong no3 soon as well. But at the moment Chilanchava is maybe our most important player it the forward pack.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby 4N » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 13:27

Agree with all of that. Lomidze looked uncomfortable at lock after Nemsasze's injury and I noticed Romania engaging early in the scrum a few times.

Edit: Lomidze did indeed pack down at flank. Credit @T2Rugby for reminder.

Any word on Nemsadze's knee btw?

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby amz » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 21:44

datodato wrote:1. - Who is the new forwards coach? We lost our scrums, our line-outs and had no foward ball from the carrying our forwards did. We tried to throw offloads and pass it to the second attacking line but the forwards did'nt create any momentum by going forward first. The standards were terrible. The romanians in the scrums drove early all the time and they drove not straight pushing against the georgian tight head. The combination of the early push and not driving streight resulted in the movement towards the georgian no3 after the set and before the ball came in. What leads me to my next point...


Oaks kind of expected that, hence the way they tackled, trying to prevent offloads. But I do think the referee was OK, including the scrums.

datodato wrote:2. - Why the hell is Gorgodze captain?! He is complaining more than Cristiano Ronaldo, he is a theatralic actor on the field. As a captain he should have talked to the ref about the scrums and kept calm. At the end he wasn't playing rugby any more just running after the ref and shouting and whining! It was shameful. He is a great player but he hurts the team by his actions. I can't remember McCaw or John Smit whining for 70 min a game, shouting at his own players as Gorgodze did to Khmaladze. Once Khmaladze went out of the defensive line because the ball was out of the romanian ruck so he was legaly pushing the defensive line but the ref said falsly that it was offside. Then our captain just shouted at Khmaladze! I mean I haven't seen that at any high level rugby... It showes you a lot of things.


Because he's the Alfa male and small teams tend to rely to much on their best player. I do agree Gorgodze shouldn't be captain and a calmer player would be more appropriate. I noticed a thing from the stands, at the beginning of the match Gorgodze was tackled very hard by 3 Romanian players and while Lelo pack was worried and looked to each other rather confused. Often where your biggest strength lies, there is also the biggest soft point so coach should try not to be so dependent on Gorgodze when makes the game plan.

datodato wrote:3. - Bradley Davies is now coach in Romania. 100% he was involved in the game. The Romanians read every set piece backs moves in defense. In attack they hit the 13-winger channel when they opened the ball and kicked a lot. Tells me 2 things: Our weakness are 1. defense between 13 and our winger and most importantly our no15 who is a great, great man but he didn't cought a single high ball under pressure since I watch rugby and even the high kicks where he is not under pressure he often doesn't catch. So if we just could develop 3 players 11-14-15 who could catch the ball, we then may complain about not being in the six nations and playing against Leigh Halfpenny or Anthony Watson.


Agree, you seriously have to work to back three; however, Kvirikashvili was every time outstanding versus Romania although he's a gafeur; at some point, luck ends...about defense in the mentioned area, I think Kacharava was very good in every match vs Romania in the last years and made no exception yesterday...it's more the issue of the back three to be sorted out.

datodato wrote:4. - Who had the great idea of putting Lomidze in the 2nd row? Turned out to be the most stupid thing after putting Bergamasco at 9. You can see how much he hates playing 2nd row. He sees himselfe as a georgian Parisse, not as a georgian Bakkies. And he plays the way he sees himselfe. Why don't they play Gorgodze in the 2nd row and Otia Giorgadze at 6, Tkhilaishvili at 7 and Beka Gorgadze at 8?

5. - The REC showed the value of Chilanchava. He might be the strongest scrummager even Georgia had for a long time and he is very strong over the ball as well. A strong no3 is the hardest thing you can find in the world, we are blessed to have Levan (and Dudu). Before that we even had Ziraka... And Tabidze is a good young lad, he will be a strong no3 soon as well. But at the moment Chilanchava is maybe our most important player it the forward pack.


I think Haig is trying to field some faster forwards, especially for last 20 minutes; I observed at many Kiwi coaches they will look for a fast lock and I think this was also the reason to select the young prop. Now I generally do agree with your statement that you should play your strengths but if you want to develop your game plan further you have to try different things. The main show scene is RWC 2019. Nobody will bother to introduce you in 6N or to whatever you are dreaming for simply winning REC and beating Romania but a good RWC display will help...so you can choose to field the best team vs Romania and play a forward based plan which is limited and will let you down eventually as every one sided approach or you'll try to develop your game ... mind you, Romania didn't fielded best props we have (Lazar, Ursache) and the bench players are young ones so we were on even ground here.

4N wrote: I noticed Romania engaging early in the scrum a few times.


You're so quick every time to point an accusing finger to Romania ;)

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Tue, 21 Mar 2017, 08:51

I have string feeling that miltin us going to:
2017 summer: qontinue playing same tactics. And squad.
2017 november: better squad, and kind of pushing the results.
2018 REC: same squad as 2017, qontinue to get used to open game.
2018 summer: only RWC 2019 candidates play the tests.
2018 November: general squad for RWC.
2019 REC: RWC squad and preparing all players.
2month training session.
2019 RWC warm up matches including Scotland arriving in Tbilisi.
2019 RWC!

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby datodato » Tue, 21 Mar 2017, 08:56

@amz: I get all the "we prepare for RWC 19" thing but if we try to develop a new style of play... why are we doing it with players who were there for more than a decade and can catch and throw the ball? I mean Kvirikashvili, Kacharava (I will never forgett his "pass" against japan) or Todua are not the players you want to play with at the RWC 19 when you wan't to play a "total rugby" form of game with all 15 players, right?

The picture you post reminded me of this one http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/con ... ?s=594x594 of jesse mogg. I think it's called the "15-who-is-a-bit-confused-spider-tackle-technic".

And the Romanians still pushed early and not streight in the scrum. And they also pulled the "Antonio-sore-back-substitution" when the 18 came on for the no3, he then lost 2 scrums against nariashvili, romanians brought on no3 who was a tacticle change and the no18 was ok. LOOK INTO THAT ONE TOO WORLD RUGBY!

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby amz » Tue, 21 Mar 2017, 09:23

datodato wrote:@amz: I get all the "we prepare for RWC 19" thing but if we try to develop a new style of play... why are we doing it with players who were there for more than a decade and can catch and throw the ball? I mean Kvirikashvili, Kacharava (I will never forgett his "pass" against japan) or Todua are not the players you want to play with at the RWC 19 when you wan't to play a "total rugby" form of game with all 15 players, right?


To be honest I expected him to start experiments earlier, in 2016 but he kept going with the same team.

I think the explanation is simple, Todua and Kacharava are both solid defensively while Kvirkashvili is your best kicker.

Btw, why do you think Koshadze got so little game time?

datodato wrote:The picture you post reminded me of this one http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/con ... ?s=594x594 of jesse mogg. I think it's called the "15-who-is-a-bit-confused-spider-tackle-technic".


:lol: :thumbup:

datodato wrote:And the Romanians still pushed early and not streight in the scrum. And they also pulled the "Antonio-sore-back-substitution" when the 18 came on for the no3, he then lost 2 scrums against nariashvili, romanians brought on no3 who was a tacticle change and the no18 was ok. LOOK INTO THAT ONE TOO WORLD RUGBY!


Well, if decision was in doctor's hands than I am afraid the ref couldn't have done nothing. I don't know what happened there but I would rather have a system that could be abused, than endangering players. You have give the benefit of the doubt in this sort of situation unless more evidence.

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