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Georgia (Lelos)

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby rugby.change » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 02:51

To clarify, with the point deduction to Romania, Spain and Belgium, does this mean Georgia won both the 2017 and 2018 REC?

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Sick » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 04:50

rugby.change wrote:To clarify, with the point deduction to Romania, Spain and Belgium, does this mean Georgia won both the 2017 and 2018 REC?



No Romania has won REC2017. Points deduction in 2017 counts only twards RWC Qualification, not REC 2017.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 13:15

Georgia's squad vs Tonga:

1 - Karlen Asieshvili
2 - Shalva Mamukashvili
3 - Levan Chilachava
4 - Giorgi Nemsadze
5 - Nodar Tcheishvili
6 - Shalva Sutiashvili
7 - Otar Giorgadze
8 - Mikheil Gachechiladze

9 - Vasil Lobzhanidze
10 - Lasha Khmaladze
11 - Sandro Todua
12 - Giorgi Kveseladze
13 - Davit Kacharava
14 - Anzor Sitchinava
15 - Soso Matiashvili

16 - Jaba Bregvadze
17 - Giorgi Tetrashvili
18 - Irakli Mirtskhulava
19 - Konstantine Mikautadze
20 - Saba Shubitidze

21 - Giorgi Begadze
22 - Lasha Malaguradze
23 - Merab Kvirikashvili

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Cor Kalom » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 17:28

Sick wrote:
rugby.change wrote:To clarify, with the point deduction to Romania, Spain and Belgium, does this mean Georgia won both the 2017 and 2018 REC?



No Romania has won REC2017. Points deduction in 2017 counts only twards RWC Qualification, not REC 2017.



That is actually incorrect, Georgia has won the 2017 and 2018 RECs. Digression from the statement of the Independent Appeal Committee:

6. The DJC promulgated its written Decision on 15 May 2018. Thereby, and in summary, it:
a. Did not order the match to be replayed.
b. Ordered in respect of Spain, Romania and Belgium that i. There should be a 5 points deduction for each occasion that an ineligible player or players2 played in the RWCQ competition and in the Rugby Europe tournament; and ii. the points deduction should be the maximum points (5 points) which were available to be won by the team.


Source: https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/340527, page 3 on the PDF document.
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Cor Kalom » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 17:31

That means that Georgia has officialy won the tournament seven years in a row since 2011.
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 17:40

That means if WR stripped Rom the title by law, Georgia doesnt need any title not won on the field. I dont care about 2017 it is not our by right. Even if Romania fielded 15 ineligible players they won that match by single point and cup is their.

But if WR decides to write that cup is Georgia’s than let it be, i dont care

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 17:58

No, they said they will not change the 2017 Tournament standings. Probably if Georgia ask for this title they could have it but Georgian union president said they are not interested in that title won it on the field by Romania. Fair play to Georgian union.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Cor Kalom » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 18:09

WorldRugby should probably clarify.

The decision states DIRECTLY, that Romania are stipped of points in the RWCQ and REC.
It does NOT STATE, that Romania are stripped of their REC title.

By the letter of the law Romania should be stripped of their title.
HOWEVER, winners can decline their prize and if Georgia do so(officially I mean, so far it was inofficial I think), then the REC 2017 probably belongs to Russia, cause they are number two after points deductions.

If anyone knows anyone at WR, GRU or FRR please ask, cause now you got me confused :D

Respect to Georgia for letting the Romanians keep the title!
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Grayday88 » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 20:12

A bit belated I know but a massive well done to the Lelos under 20s

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby amz » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 20:21

Cor Kalom wrote:WorldRugby should probably clarify.

The decision states DIRECTLY, that Romania are stipped of points in the RWCQ and REC.
It does NOT STATE, that Romania are stripped of their REC title.

By the letter of the law Romania should be stripped of their title.
HOWEVER, winners can decline their prize and if Georgia do so(officially I mean, so far it was inofficial I think), then the REC 2017 probably belongs to Russia, cause they are number two after points deductions.

If anyone knows anyone at WR, GRU or FRR please ask, cause now you got me confused :D

Respect to Georgia for letting the Romanians keep the title!

it was actually written in the first Committee decision why they don't strip Romanian of REC 2017. Now I get that you don't know to read but this is not an excuse for such a lame post.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby sandro » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 21:25

Georgia lost to Romania in 2017 on the pitch because Romania was more motivated to win. trying to change this statistic by georgia would be pathetic with every standard!!! We lost because Romanians where motivated and we have to accept that. No whinny bullshit ooh Romania fielded one illegible player. We lost POINT!!

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby datodato » Fri, 08 Jun 2018, 23:09

Who needs a title not won on the field. It’s Romanians title, we were so poor in that game. And we were dominated in the scrums (thx Bekoshvili!). Nobody cares if Romania ticked the wrong box on the formula - except the poor loosing Russians.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Cor Kalom » Sat, 09 Jun 2018, 01:15

amz wrote:
Cor Kalom wrote:WorldRugby should probably clarify.

The decision states DIRECTLY, that Romania are stipped of points in the RWCQ and REC.
It does NOT STATE, that Romania are stripped of their REC title.

By the letter of the law Romania should be stripped of their title.
HOWEVER, winners can decline their prize and if Georgia do so(officially I mean, so far it was inofficial I think), then the REC 2017 probably belongs to Russia, cause they are number two after points deductions.

If anyone knows anyone at WR, GRU or FRR please ask, cause now you got me confused :D

Respect to Georgia for letting the Romanians keep the title!

it was actually written in the first Committee decision why they don't strip Romanian of REC 2017. Now I get that you don't know to read but this is not an excuse for such a lame post.


1. The first official document regarding the matter of eligibility had stated(according to amz), that Romania keep the REC 2017 title and trophy. The document regarding the appeal which i posted earlier suggested, that Romania lost the REC 2017 title to Georgia, because of the aforementioned eligibility issues. This is an inconsistency on part of WR and points out their unprofesional accountancy.

2. The results of all matches played by Romania, Belgium and Spain, regarding the RWCQ, were reversed with a 5 point deduction. The matches in the REC in which the same ineligible players played, were not reversed. From a legal point of view this is a horrible blunder. The spirit of jurisprudence was not upheld. Next time eligibility issues arise, WR will refer to Romania being deducted points in the RWCQ and the accused team will refer to Romania not being deducted points in the REC. Ask any lawyer, this is incredibly unprofessional behaviour. All REC games were simulataniously RWCQ tournament games, which means those were the same. Counting the results of REC and RWCQ differently would mean, that each game is considered to have two different results, which is unheard of in any sport.

Points 1. and 2. illustrate how WR still have serious juridical problems.
It doesn't matter if Georgia fans and GRU "don't want" the Trophy. This is about a consistent implementation of the law on part of WR. I think everyone, who has rugbys best interests at heart, should want each law to be implemented consistently without exception. This is a legal matter.

3. The WR document i posted had stated, that Romania should have points deducted. Them posting two different results on two documents discussing the same matter is their mistake, not mine.
I don't think that pointing out my ability to read is helpful in this discussion. I could point out your grammar mistakes to you, but I won't since it doesn't add anything to this thread. Snarky comments start fights, please refrain from posting them.
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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Sat, 09 Jun 2018, 07:48

Georgia beat Tonga 16-15, good start...

We need to beat Fiji in order to claim Pacific Cup + we will raise on 10th place in Rankings....

all 16 points were scored by Soso Matiashvili

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby amz » Sat, 09 Jun 2018, 08:28

Cor Kalom wrote:3. The WR document i posted had stated, that Romania should have points deducted. Them posting two different results on two documents discussing the same matter is their mistake, not mine.
I don't think that pointing out my ability to read is helpful in this discussion. I could point out your grammar mistakes to you, but I won't since it doesn't add anything to this thread. Snarky comments start fights, please refrain from posting them.


Yes, my bad, I should have said you should have the ability to read legal documents. Apologies!

The two decision should be read in this order: first Independent Committee Decision and then the Appeal Decision. It is essential to read them in this order.

The relevant part from fist decision is this:

51. We considered whether points should be deducted in the Rugby Europe
Tournament given the substantial penalty that the deduction of points in the
RWCQ tournament represents for each of the Unions affected, which means that
the Unions will not qualify for RWC 2019. However the RWCQ tournament
was played as part of the Rugby Europe tournament, we were not invited to treat
the Rugby Europe tournament in a different way for the purposes of points
deductions, and the distorting effect of fielding an ineligible player remains.
Therefore the deductions of 5 points should be made for each Rugby Europe
tournament match in which 1 or more ineligible player was played. As the
tournament for 2017 had been completed and issues of relegation had been
decided in that year, the points deduction should not be applied to the 2017
Rugby Europe tournament. The parties will need to agree the effect of this
judgment on the Rugby Europe Championship 2018 table. If the parties cannot
agree the panel will resolve this issue with the benefit of written submissions.


In short, they apply the points deduction only for RWCQ Europe and REC 2018. The Appeal decision therefore can only refer to these two competition and not to REC 2017. Appeal Committee cannot expand the beyond the framework of first decision so it was consistent in not looking into REC 2017.

Further reading about why they tried to narrow the scope of the case (start from para 25 if you don't have the time to read)
https://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/Share ... ts/704.pdf

Their aim was to narrow as much as possible the possibility to change any result outside the field of play.

Ask any lawyer, this is incredibly unprofessional behaviour. All REC games were simulataniously RWCQ tournament games, which means those were the same. Counting the results of REC and RWCQ differently would mean, that each game is considered to have two different results, which is unheard of in any sport.


Can you point me a decision where a court behaved differently? Actually not all REC games were simultaneously RWCQ games, this is wrong. The only way in which this could have been looked into was if Georgia would have submitted a complaint for REC 2017 but even in this case were grounds to reject it given the time length since the tournament which was not the case for REC 2018 and RWCQ.

There are other reasons for which the decisions were inconsistent but I won't go further.

Back on topic, congrats to Lelos for the win, Tonga fielded a much stronger side than last year and Pacific Nation title would be a great achievement!

Matiashvili seem to have the talent to score tries from nothing.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby datodato » Sat, 09 Jun 2018, 09:59

It is a bit odd, I don't get this Pacific Nations Cup.. Georgia won't play Samoa right? They play Japan instead... I don't get it.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby dwpeate » Sat, 09 Jun 2018, 10:24

Also, according to the WR site for the competition, Tonga v Fiji isn't part of the PNC..

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Warpath » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 03:52

PNC this year is 2 teams, Fiji and Georgia, samoa and Tonga are invited teams, because samoa got delayed i the RWC2019 qualifier, they had a few weeks to spare so were included in the PNC but due to the time frame, not all teams will get a chacne to play each other so they had to make this more of a June internationals than PNC..PNC will be proper next year with US and Canada also joining ..

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby BigG » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 07:19

As far as I understand Fiji has a very optimal squad.
Only Josua Tuisova is missed.
Who else?

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Scorpion » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 07:57

ASIESHVILI, MAMUKASHVILI, CHILACHAVA, NEMSADZE ©,MIKAUTADZE, TSUTSKIRIDZE, KOLELISHVILI, GIORGADZE

LOBZHANIDZE, KHMALADZE, SICHINAVA, MALAGURADZE, KACHARAVA, MCHEDLIDZE,MATIASHVILI


CHKOIDZE, ZHVANIA, MELIKIDZE, CHEISHVILI, SUTIASHVILI, BEGADZE, KVESELADZE,KVIRIKASHVILI

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 09:48

Georgia vs Fiji

Lelos Squad:

1 - Karlen Asieshvili
2 - Shalva Mamukashvili
3 - Levan Chilachava
4 - Giorgi Nemsadze
5 - Konstantine Mikautadze
6 - Giorgi Tsutskiridze
7 - Viktor Kolelishvili
8 - Otar Giorgadze

9 - Vasil Lobzhanidze
10 - Lasha Khmaladze
11 - Anzor Sitchinava
12 - Lasha Malaguradze
13 - Davit Kacharava
14 - Tamaz Mchedlidze
15 - Soso Matiashvili

16 - Soso Chkoidze
17 - Zurab Zhvania
18 - Giorgi Melikidze
19 - Nodar Tcheishvili
20 - Shalva Sutiashvili

21 - Giorgi Begadze
22 - Giorgi Kveseladzd
23 - Merab Kvirikashvili

Pack weight = 902kg
Average Age = 25,2 years

Missing: Mikheil Nariashvili, Giorgi Tkhilaishvili, Beka Gorgadze, Gela Aprasidze, Giorgi Koshadze, Merab Sharikadze, Mirian Modebadze
Last edited by RugbyPUBtbilisi on Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 12:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby Scorpion » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 11:59

BigG wrote:As far as I understand Fiji has a very optimal squad.
Only Josua Tuisova is missed.
Who else?

+Injured: Tevita Cavubati (3-d choice Lock), Peceli Yato (very talented Backrow), Levani Botia (explosive Flanker-cum-Centre)

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby GeoRugby » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 12:38

I wonder why Bregvadze isn't in the lineup. If its injury, I hope itès not serious one and he'll be ready for Japan. Great to see Mchedlidze in the starting XV.

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby beber » Fri, 15 Jun 2018, 19:39

Tornike Jalagonia to join Biarritz Olympique !

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Re: Georgia (Lelos)

Postby fullbackace » Fri, 15 Jun 2018, 19:41

beber wrote:Tornike Jalagonia to join Biarritz Olympique !

Would've been amazing 10 years ago.
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