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North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby argie » Sat, 01 Oct 2016, 20:48

Why the H are out of the field?.

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Sun, 02 Oct 2016, 08:01

Result was Mexico 32 - 3 Guyana.

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Thomas » Sun, 02 Oct 2016, 19:57

grande wrote:So, if I'm understanding the World Cup qualification process correctly, the winner of this game will face the winner of CONSUR B.

The winner of that match will play Paraguay (who came last in CONSUR A this year). The winner of that match will participate in CONSUR A, and the winner of CONSUR A will be in a playoff against the loser of the Canada/USA playoff.


The WR Site is not very clear but my take Mexico has still a long way to go and qualify for WR, Somehow it doesn't seem right. I thought 1 South American side (not including Argentina) qualified and the runner up goes to the World Repechage including the loser of the USA\Canada which seems unfair on Mexico.

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Buffalo » Sun, 02 Oct 2016, 20:04

Thomas wrote:
grande wrote:So, if I'm understanding the World Cup qualification process correctly, the winner of this game will face the winner of CONSUR B.

The winner of that match will play Paraguay (who came last in CONSUR A this year). The winner of that match will participate in CONSUR A, and the winner of CONSUR A will be in a playoff against the loser of the Canada/USA playoff.


The WR Site is not very clear but my take Mexico has still a long way to go and qualify for WR, Somehow it doesn't seem right. I thought 1 South American side (not including Argentina) qualified and the runner up goes to the World Repechage including the loser of the USA\Canada which seems unfair on Mexico.


Grande is right. The winner of NACRA faces the winner of CONSUR B. The winner of that game will face Paraguay and whoever comes out on top will compete in CONSUR A. The winner of CONSUR A will face the loser of USA and Canada. The loser of that game moves onto the Global Repechage while the winner is Americas 2.

Also what happened in the 2nd half of the qualifier? I had to leave for a family lunch and the score was 3-3. Did the travel and altitude just catch up with Guyana?

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby victorsra » Sun, 02 Oct 2016, 22:05

Grande is right. The winner of NACRA faces the winner of CONSUR B. The winner of that game will face Paraguay and whoever comes out on top will compete in CONSUR A. The winner of CONSUR A will face the loser of USA and Canada. The loser of that game moves onto the Global Repechage while the winner is Americas 2.


Yes.

The only doubt is: IF Mexico beats the South American B champions but loses to Paraguay will Sudamérica Rugby organize ANOTHER match between Paraguay and the South American B Championship as the Promotion/Relegation Playoff of the South American Championship? I guess there won't be a match and Paraguay will stay.

But if Mexico beats Paraguay too will Paraguay be relegated? Also in this case I believe all Mexico matches against Uruguay, Chile and Brazil woudn't count for the South American Championship itself, just for the RWC Qualy.
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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 02 Oct 2016, 22:26

Americas qualifying system is a mess and needs fixing. Congrats to Mexico though, another step in the right direction, and a decent crowd in too which is encouraging. I really hope the second division of the Americas Rugby Championship gets sorted out within the next few years.

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Thomas » Mon, 03 Oct 2016, 06:34

thatrugbyguy wrote:Americas qualifying system is a mess and needs fixing. Congrats to Mexico though, another step in the right direction, and a decent crowd in too which is encouraging. I really hope the second division of the Americas Rugby Championship gets sorted out within the next few years.
I totally agree. Doesn't matter how you spin it. The system is loaded and is a mess.

Mexico has done well getting this far. I just feel they are up against it and the qualifying system should have been more streamlined. Even if they win next match the travel alone to South AAmerica may not help them.

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby paratus » Mon, 03 Oct 2016, 09:39

I agree too, I think the top two divisions should be Americas 1 and 2 and then go down the conference route with a play off between Americas North and Americas South (e.g. Mexico v Colombia) for promotion to Americas 2

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby diego » Tue, 04 Oct 2016, 01:02

argie wrote:Why the H are out of the field?.


I'm curious too :)

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 04 Oct 2016, 04:56

Americas Rugby Championship's travels are payed by World Rugby, it is too expensive. I think a B championship would only be possible as a tournament in a single venue between the champions of each region.

I think the simplest thing to do would be a 4-teams tournament in June between the 6th placed team of the first division + Paraguay + RAN Champions + South America B champions. The competition would have a good level. Brasil/Chile, Paraguay, Colombia and Mexico. With this RAN Championship and South American B Championship should run together with the ARC in Feb/March maximum April.

But it is worth to remember: ARC will be UNCHANGED for 4 years more. That was anounced together with the competition. It is in the TV contract with ESPN as well. They want the 6 current countries, without changes. Any changes can happen just from 2021.
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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby JTV84 » Tue, 04 Oct 2016, 07:54

Thomas wrote:I totally agree. Doesn't matter how you spin it. The system is loaded and is a mess.


Well, if just see the big picture yes the system looks pretty messed up. But lets be real and if Mexico gets to win that game against the winner of Sudamericano B, I don't think they will be able to win against the loser of Sudamericano A. In those terms everybody will just go back to their original position for the next 4 years.

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Canalina » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 16:14

Fourteen teams in the 2016 RAN 7s championship, to be hosted by the island of Trinidad. Is that a record? Unfortunately Wikipedia has no details antecedent the 2014, so we can't know; for the same reason I can't say if that of Dominican Republic and Martinique is a debut or not

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby fridge46 » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 16:21

There was 15 in 2011, but that included a USA South team.

Martinique previously played in 2011 (7th/15), 2009 (4th/13), 2007 (4th/12), 2006 (7th/14)

Dominican Republic in 2009 (11th/13), 2006 (14th/14), 2005 (=11th/12)

Check out Polish wikipedia - it is surprising useful for rugby tournaments

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACRA_Sevens

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Canalina » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 16:36

Thanks Fridge, I didn't remember that Dominican Rep had an international past, I thought rugby was just born in the island.
And yes, polish wikipedia is often the richest of details for rugby. I don't know if it's a one and only super fan compiling all those pages or if there's a large group of rugby fans behind them

This is an other map, with in red the team inscribed to the RAN 7s and in yellow the teams not participating. Between the nations with rugby activity we miss overall Usa and Bahamas, but also Guadaloupe, St.Lucia, Cuba and Haiti

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 19:39

Sad that the Bahamas is out. They were better in the past. Caribbean runners up once AFAIK.
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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Canalina » Sun, 18 Dec 2016, 22:05

Usa South's board published the 2017 calendar and it seems they will miss again the continental XV championship, like it already happened this year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Rugb ... ampionship)
It must be not a prohibition from World Rugby because, instead, they will be part again of the U19 RAN championship.
Without Canada, Usa and the countries of the isthmus it will appear as a Caribbean Championship more than a North America Championship

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Jan 2017, 01:37

http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2017/0 ... embership/

Great news that RAN wants 20 members until 2019.

So it looks that Belize will indeed look to be a RAN member, and not a Sudamérica Rugby member like the rest of Central America. Quite predictable as Belize is the only non-latin Central America nation.
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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Thomas » Thu, 05 Jan 2017, 09:37

victorsra wrote:http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2017/01/04/aruba-belize-move-towards-rugby-americas-north-membership/

Great news that RAN wants 20 members until 2019.

So it looks that Belize will indeed look to be a RAN member, and not a Sudamérica Rugby member like the rest of Central America. Quite predictable as Belize is the only non-latin Central America nation.


Not quite true, yes it was a British Colony from 1862 but 50% of the population identifies itself as Mestizo and 20% as Creole so a very mixed and diverse country I wish I had spent serious time there. actual white Europeans is around 1%(not including the German group).

-----

In regards to the topic at hand, I still BELIEVE, Central America countries should be moved from the South American diaspora to North America all other sports play in the Northern Hemisphere sporting bodies. Rugby is the only oddity for historical reasons and WR should force the change.

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Jan 2017, 12:36

The problem is that just Costa Rica is a WR member.

Nice to know it is that diverse, but people speak mainly English or a significant part speaks Spanish at daily basis?
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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Canalina » Thu, 05 Jan 2017, 13:05

As I wrote in the past, my position is that there should be one only confederation for the Americas. Because of the hamletic nature of the nations in the middle (to be RAN or to be SAR? That is the question!) and because RAN is an half-working confederation considering that Canada and Usa run by their own and that they last just with a bunch of little islands playing with the giant Mexico. A one and only american confederation could try to purpose the best solution for all the nations: the big ones in the north and in the south, the little nations of the mexican gulf, the little nations of the isthmus, the neither-flesh-nor-fowl Mexico…
There are grey areas also in other continental borders, like for PNG and Guam pending between Asia and Oceania, or Armenia and Azerbaijan pending between Europe and Asia; but the american situation seems the most peculiar

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Jan 2017, 13:29

The reason some important sports (football, rugby, etc) are split between South America and North America is that the South American international matches always started between Brazil (in fact, Southern Brazil, because São Paulo and Rio federation dominated the Brazilian confederations in all sports for many decades, usually without national competitions until 1960s/1970s), Argentina, Uruguay and Chile (in late 19th-early 20th century). These countries had no reason to think about forming an unified federation with Canada and USA. In the early 20th centuries there was no sport unity in the Americas because North and Southern South Americas were too far from each other. We have two independent "nucleous".

When the other countries started to play in the international scene, the most logical thing for them was to chose one of this two nucleous to be alligned. Peru and Bolivia always chose Argentina/Chile as their obvious rivals, while Ecuador and Colombia were usualy the last ones and prefered Peru's way.

Look that Venezuela has strong ties with the Spanish Caribbean and USA. It is a Caribbean-oriented country, while Colombia had an eye on the Caribbean and another on the Andes. Venezuela is the only country where football is not the main sport. It is Baseball (and Basketball is popular too) that they play against the Caribbean nations. Basketball had the same split but it was much more interestng to Brazil and Argentina to look north, of course.

Another problem is the connections inside the Americas. It is very difficult to travel inside Latin America (Brazil has poor connection with Andes, Central America) and those inifnite number of tiny British/Dutch/French Caribbean nations are a world apart and very costly to reach from most South American nations. I woudn't be crazy to say that probably you need almost the same number of hours to travel from Paraguay to New Zealand (you just need just to change a plane in Buenos Aires) than from Paraguay to St. Kitts and Nevis (no clue of how many planes you need and waiting hours in airports).

For rugby, the new ARC changes things and make it interesting the unification. But, it NEEDS regionalization for lower divisions.
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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Thomas » Thu, 05 Jan 2017, 20:37

The new changes makes things very interesting and yes the internal travel is brutal... I have done the Caribbean my starting point being Mexico but the amount of changes etc I could have been back in Australia by the time I finished !.

Regionalization at lower leagues should be a priority, I don't care if it's one federation like Africa or Asia but something must change.

In regards to Belize I would say that the language is split 50 / 50 outside the capital Belmopan is Spanish or Qeqchi the Mayan language in the South towards Guatemala, there is some English but primarily in the tourist areas. In most schools students are bilingual and are taught Spanish and English.

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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Jan 2017, 21:43

But Belizean rugby uses its proximity to Guatemala?
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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 11 Jan 2017, 14:02

victorsra wrote:For rugby, the new ARC changes things and make it interesting the unification. But, it NEEDS regionalization for lower divisions.


Just out of curiosity: how do you get from lets say from Peru to Uruguay? Are there direct flights everywhere or would even the cheapest option be in some cases to fly to the US or another hub and then to the other country? Because regionalization is quite a word when a countries are so big and so far apart like in SA and NA.
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Re: North American & Caribbean Rugby (NACRA)

Postby Thomas » Wed, 11 Jan 2017, 16:18

victorsra wrote:But Belizean rugby uses its proximity to Guatemala?


sadly no and haven't worked out why either... there is no history between them in terms of Rugby so I would assume both would have tried to get some practical in place with one another? There has been communications but nothing has come out from talks.

RugbyLiebe wrote:
victorsra wrote:For rugby, the new ARC changes things and make it interesting the unification. But, it NEEDS regionalization for lower divisions.


Just out of curiosity: how do you get from lets say from Peru to Uruguay? Are there direct flights everywhere or would even the cheapest option be in some cases to fly to the US or another hub and then to the other country? Because regionalization is quite a word when a countries are so big and so far apart like in SA and NA.


Some of the travel it is expensive and using the bus service is the better option. compared to European standards a lot of the bus companies in Central and South American are very good and even better as they are a primary system of transportation for many countries.

To answer the question there is no direct travel everywhere.

Peru to Uruguay there are direct flights via Avianca (4 1/2 hours) or you go the stopover option via Santiago in Chile or Sao Paolo in Brazil with LATAM (5 1/2 I think) those would be the cheaper option.

Forget Argentine Airlines, Never used them but they are so expensive it puts you off compared to the others.

Regionalization is doable but needs good management for some of these regions. Lets not forget the altitude as well... even within some countries is difficult.

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