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OLD STUFF - rarities

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Sat, 19 Jan 2019, 23:25

Since... the dawn of the times. I've always seen match sheets on the italian press written in that way. In soccer they're more or less the same. Final score, lines-up, scorers by minute; plus some possible other details like referee, sin-bins, spectators et cetera. Simple and efficacious.
We italians may complain ourselves about many things but -I agree- our match sheets are a bit better than the Anglo-Saxon ones : )

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 21 Jan 2019, 08:14

Canalina wrote:Since... the dawn of the times. I've always seen match sheets on the italian press written in that way. In soccer they're more or less the same. Final score, lines-up, scorers by minute; plus some possible other details like referee, sin-bins, spectators et cetera. Simple and efficacious.
We italians may complain ourselves about many things but -I agree- our match sheets are a bit better than the Anglo-Saxon ones : )


Just last week I looked through some German newspapers from the late 1920ies to find some rugby news (I actually found some, but yet to find more time to make something out of it) and already there the same match sheets are used for the soccer results. Maybe the Romans even used them for the gladiator results :lol:
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Fri, 25 Jan 2019, 20:54

A general, vague doubt popped up in my time-wasting mind: why in rugby the ball is passed backwards?

I mean, how that concept came up? I can't see a strong link between the early form of rugby (the pre-Webb Ellis one, let say) and the necessity to pass back the ball. Was maybe the pass-backwards rule born after the permission of running with the ball? When you was not permitted to run with the ball (I still have not much clear how the game was at that time) there was not a clear point on prohibiting the pass onwards, it seems to me.

Maybe the whole meaning is that rugby is a sort of mimesis of a mass battle where -team versus team or village versus village- you have to go ahead centimeter by centimeter with your strength, this making the pass onwards a sort of tricky, unfair move.

I've read some web pages about, like http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/originsofrugby.htm, and, very quickly, the 1871 laws (http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/res ... 71laws.pdf), but without dissipating the doubts.

Recapitulating: if the pass backwards rule was created before the permission of running with the ball, I can't understand its meaning. And this the core of our sport

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby victorsra » Fri, 25 Jan 2019, 21:55

In fact in the first rules you coudn't run with the ball in most situations... The evolution of the rules is very interesting and nothing linear.

You should read Tony Collins books and listen to his podcast; https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/rugby-reloaded

The new book is terrific https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Football-B ... 113803875X

Previous books:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oval-World-Glo ... BNBC7JXJC9
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Social-History ... lish+rugby

And there is the classic Kenneth Sheard/Eric Dunning book (whose ideas Collins' diverge in some aspects): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Barbarians-Gen ... +gentlemen
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Thomas » Wed, 06 Feb 2019, 15:23

Has anyone come across this story?

https://bstravelguidedotcom.wordpress.c ... o-somalia/

interesting read.

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 06 Feb 2019, 15:35

Thomas wrote:Has anyone come across this story?

https://bstravelguidedotcom.wordpress.c ... o-somalia/

interesting read.


BS Travel stands for?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Thomas » Wed, 06 Feb 2019, 16:05

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Thomas wrote:Has anyone come across this story?

https://bstravelguidedotcom.wordpress.c ... o-somalia/

interesting read.


BS Travel stands for?


Good Point ! :) :)

I just clicked on the link that someone send me I didn't check the website. :lol:

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby NedRugby » Wed, 06 Feb 2019, 16:26

LoL!


From the "About" page on the site:
Welcome to BS Travel Guide.
This is not Lonely Planet. This is not Fodor’s. This is not Frommer’s or Rick Steves.
Everything in these pages is untrue. Well almost.

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 07 Feb 2019, 13:10

Thomas wrote:
Good Point ! :) :)

I just clicked on the link that someone send me I didn't check the website. :lol:


They lost me at this
"The locals speak with a slightly different accent, they have a tradition of digging holes, rearing sheep"
:D Funny find.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Vova12 » Sat, 16 Feb 2019, 18:33

I hope for future autograph and a place in future Rugby Museum in Russia.

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Wed, 27 Feb 2019, 19:42

Was reading this page, surely interesting but suspiciously too rich of details and certainties about rugby's early history: http://www.angelfire.com/biz4/bigbrian/origins.html

Do you know if the paragraph below is true? The street game was adopted to calm down the violent students? The local court surface directly influenced the choice between 'rugby' and 'soccer'?

At nearly all the public schools the boys objected to being ordered around by socially inferior teachers and rebelled on a regular basis arming themselves with guns, swords and explosives. At two of the well known schools, Winchester and Rugby it was necessary to call in the army to restore peace. To help the boys release their aggressive tendencies several schools tried adapting the street game to school sports. Three schools persevered. They were to change the face of world sport. All three started with the same basic catch, carry and scrag traditional street game but two of the schools, Charterhouse and Westminster had hard quadrangles. Tackled participants got abrasions and broken limbs, so it was decided to leave the ball on the ground and just kick it. A fair question would be why did Rugby School stay with their modified version of the street game. Because they were the only school with big green open playing fields. It was playing surfaces not personal preference which dictated the evolution of the two games - rugby and soccer.

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 00:00

Wow, that's a really great find, Canalina. Never heard of this before.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1797_Ru ... _rebellion

"The rebellion was not the last to occur in public schools, nor even at Rugby: the school was the location of further revolts by the boys in 1820 and 1822. Between 1797 and 1832 there were ten further rebellions in schools, four at Eton, three at Winchester and one each at Charterhouse, Harrow and Shrewsbury"

What a coincidence that William Webb Ellis picked up the ball in 1823.
Nice cover-up-story, that basically some rich brats needed more discipline.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Fri, 01 Mar 2019, 17:22

March 2, 1969
In Sofia, Bulgaria v Italy 0-17
It was European Nations Cup, second category. Different trends for the two nations, since that day: now Italy is in Six Nations and Bulgaria is in the lowest category or Europe Championship

image from Bulgarian Rugby Fans facebook page (Italy has the darker shirt)
Image

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby RugInt » Sun, 03 Mar 2019, 00:31

this is one of my favourite threads on this forum. Thanks to all contributors. :thumbup:

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Tue, 05 Mar 2019, 08:18

An article, in italian, about the old foot-ball. With 7 questions (without answers)

- why we love to play with a ball?
- why "foot-ball"? (meaning: which was the role of the foot in the ancient football?)
- was football originally played in the cities or between neighboring villages?
- the original aim was to conquer the opponent field or to come back to your village?
- horsemen and men-with-a-club, supposed to take part sometime in those giant duels between villages, were somehow the predecessors of backs and forwards? (this is more a joke-question)
- the students' riots were really at the base of the decision to adopt football in the schools?
- the playing surface of the schools was really at the base of their decision to adopt one version or the other of football?

http://www.rugby.it/news/2019/03/05/mar ... sso_rugby/

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Wed, 06 Mar 2019, 09:07

Have READ somewhere that FOOT-ball actually meant that
the game was played on FOOT and NOT on a HORSE-BACK

So, they would be on their FEET and
use hands to CARRY BALL and TACKLE OPPOSITION

:::

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Wed, 06 Mar 2019, 12:28

Interesting hypothesis

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Wed, 06 Mar 2019, 14:33

The supposed oldest photo of a rugby match. It comes from 1851. Apparently it depicts a cricket game but there are sketches of those years refiguring a rugby match very similar to this image, with a lot of boys grouped together in their white long sleeves shirts & trousers & caps (see one of the last images of the article linked below); overall, the player on the left seems grabbing a (big) ball

Image

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... found.html

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Wed, 06 Mar 2019, 14:48

This image seems particularly interesting because the boys grouped on the right seem defending a defined area behind the posts. They remain far from the ball, lined on a line perpendicular to the posts line. Maybe this means that at the age of this draw the "try" was already allowed and that the try area was just the central portion of the nowadays try area.
There's also a caption at the base of the sketch: it seems saying something like "Punting out at goal"

Image

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 09:59


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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby iul » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 10:32

Old rugby looks like when 8 years old kids play any team sport... everyone squeezed together in a group within 3 meters of where the ball is

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Thu, 14 Mar 2019, 20:19

1932, Rome. Match between a local club and a British Navy team. In these few seconds a smiling priest, probably at his first rugby match, seems miming the pass gesture

https://makeagif.com/i/0LJaTl?fbclid=Iw ... 37mTbafAZg

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