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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 18 Aug 2019, 10:26

SOME corrections

complaint by an Australian TV viewer to the Soviet management >> Leadership: Mikhail Gorbachov

:::

http://rugbystat.droppages.com/1989

Soviet Union 31 - 15 L >> Aviator Kiiv (UKR) on 19/10

+ W 31:18 vs UKR selection (probably minus Aviator) on 16/10

:::

** ps ** Kookaburras 44- 6 Soviet Union
was sweetened as 44:36 in ANNUAL by an OLD FART

:::

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Vova12 » Sun, 18 Aug 2019, 10:33

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 18 Aug 2019, 10:56

COULD NOT FIND last ANNUAL scan but
SAME is copied into 600+ page BOOK

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Edgar » Sun, 18 Aug 2019, 16:19

Thanks for the clarifications. So the TV viewer's complaint went all the way to the Kremlin? :lol: I remember it being quite a big story at the time, but one which seems to have been lost in the mists of time, no doubt due in part to the fact the Soviet Union dissolved soon after.

No surprise either that the Canberra - USSR result was much closer than the one given. ACT was not a force in the amateur era. Wellington used to thrash them in the Capital Cup, which the two teams contested just prior to the South Pacific Series. & at that time Wellington itself was cannon fodder for NSW & Q'Land. ACT, then known as the Kookaburras, were at about NZ second division level.

Meanwhile, I seem to recall Western Australia playing a home and away series with the sparsely-populated 3rd division union of West Coast, in the South Island, and sharing the spoils! Not until the advent of professionalism were they to be taken seriously, in spite of a sizable club scene.

Regarding the Western Samoans' game in the Soviet Union, that has certainly become something of a mystery, with the result having been removed or simply omitted from various statistical records I'm familiar with. Reading between the lines, it appears it may have been a local (Ukrainian) selection passed off as the national team at the time, for whatever reason.

As for the question of how the Soviets might have fared had the state continued beyond 1991, A lot would have depended upon their ability to make the transition to professionalism. Rugby seemed ideally suited to the USSR in the 1980s with its strictly amateur ethos, and it is highly probable the giant nation would have continued to progress under those circumstances.

But whether they would have done so in the professional era can only be a matter for conjecture. Would they, too, have been invited into an expanded 5 Nations? If so, they'd surely be doing as well as Italy. But if not, they'd more likely be somewhere around the level that Georgia are at now, restricted by the standard of opposition they encounter in ENC competition.

Update: Thanks for the further clarification below, on the ACT score. So Canberra did thash them after all :shock:
Last edited by Edgar on Sun, 18 Aug 2019, 17:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 18 Aug 2019, 17:26

Dear Edgar,

ACT indeed won by 44-6 = as reported at the time!

but old SOV journo - a cheat - changed the score to 44-38 in the annual for 1990
and circa 25 years later repeated this fabrication in his fundamental work --
FULL of similar intentional errors

:::

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Immenso » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 00:00

Edgar wrote:Results of the Soviet Union's tour to Australia in 1990, which I mentioned in my earlier post:

10-Mar-1990 Queensland Country 21-22 Soviet Union [at Townsville]
14-Mar-1990 North Queensland 10-25 Soviet Union [at Cairns]
18-Mar-1990 Queensland B 40-17 Soviet Union [at Brisbane]
21-Mar-1990 Canberra Kookaburras 44- 6 Soviet Union [at Canberra]
25-Mar-1990 Queensland 26-10 Soviet Union [at Brisbane]
28-Mar-1990 Sydney 35- 4 Soviet Union [at Sydney

* John Eales played for Queensland B. The tourists were terribly sunburned on that occasion, having ignored local advice to slap on some sunscreen! It was after one of the final games that I recall a complaint by an Australian TV viewer to the Soviet management leading to disciplinary action against 2 of the touring players.

Results of the Western Samoan tour of Eastern Europe in 1989:

Germany North West 0 - 118 W
Germany 9 - 54 W
Belgium B 12 - 38 W
Belgium 8 - 37 W
Romania B 15 - 10 L
Romania 32 - 24 L
Soviet Union 31 - 15 L

* I interviewed Lolani Koko upon his return from this tour. A converted Samoan lock and Commonwealth Games sprinter, Koko (1.91m) was an early Lomu prototype on the wing, combining sheer speed with frightening power and aggression. He was offered an All Blacks trial after just a handful of games for Wellington in the South Pacific Series, but declined the invitation and represented Samoa instead (while helping Wellington win the NPC). He also toured SA with the Pacific Baabaas, scoring two tries in the 0-2 series loss. Amazingly he was working in a shoe factory at the time, and unsurprisingly joined the exodus to league, playing for the Roosters in NRL and Samoa at national level. I believe he had also represented his homeland at soccer in his youth, meaning he played for Samoa in 3 different football codes! One of the finest physical specimens I ever saw in rugby but sadly not looked after at the time.


On the subject of Soviet tours and Wellington and Samoan wingers.

Fun trivia. Timo Tagaloa played for the 'New Zealand XV' 1n both games in 1991 v Romania and the USSR, IIRC. Then later that year played for Western Samoa in the 1991 world cup. (Tagaloa also played the All Blacks trial in 1991). Wikipedia says he already played for Samoa in 1990.

New Zealand XV was basically NZ C - with a 30 (or 26) man All Blacks squad touring Argentina at the time.

Tagaloa had gotten a Amercian Football college scholarship and re-appeared on the NZ scene in 1990 in his mid 20s. He was very good, not as good as a peak fitness Tuigamala who was basically his rival for a 1991 AB spot, but was better than fat Tuigamala which was modus operandi for Tuigamala at all times when outside of an AB touring squad, much to the coaches frustration.

Anyway, different times. Playing for 2 countries in the same year. I'd hazard a guess that Pat Lam also played for NZ 7s at the 1991 Hong Kong 7s and then RWC later that year for Western Samoa.
Last edited by Immenso on Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 00:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Immenso » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 00:03

That 1991 Soviet team.

Sergeev the lock was very good. Pre-lifting days. Brilliant jumper at number 4.
Tichonov the number 8, excellent.
Also a young loose forward, 6/8 who I can't remember his name, was very good.

Their whole pack, except the front row/scrummaging, was very good - but those two stood out.

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Edgar » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 07:23

Immenso wrote:On the subject of Soviet tours and Wellington and Samoan wingers.

Fun trivia. Timo Tagaloa played for the 'New Zealand XV' 1n both games in 1991 v Romania and the USSR, IIRC. Then later that year played for Western Samoa in the 1991 world cup. (Tagaloa also played the All Blacks trial in 1991). Wikipedia says he already played for Samoa in 1990.

New Zealand XV was basically NZ C - with a 30 (or 26) man All Blacks squad touring Argentina at the time.

Tagaloa had gotten a Amercian Football college scholarship and re-appeared on the NZ scene in 1990 in his mid 20s. He was very good, not as good as a peak fitness Tuigamala who was basically his rival for a 1991 AB spot, but was better than fat Tuigamala which was modus operandi for Tuigamala at all times when outside of an AB touring squad, much to the coaches frustration.

Anyway, different times. Playing for 2 countries in the same year. I'd hazard a guess that Pat Lam also played for NZ 7s at the 1991 Hong Kong 7s and then RWC later that year for Western Samoa.


Timo I also interviewed during my days as a cub reporter on the Wellington rugby scene. He had just returned from a 4-year stint as running back with Utah State. He told me he'd missed the cut with the Eagles NFL franchise and I duly reported this, though the national press framed it as the Eagles' loss & New Zealand rugby's gain - which was bs (as usual). He was one of the stars of Samoa's 1991 World Cup team and scored 2 tries against Argentina. I don't think he played for the All Blacks, did he? I was at university in the US myself after this and don't recall that period too clearly. The eligibility laws were certainly a lot more relaxed then. Even the Iceman had played for Samoa before NZ. But I don't think Tagaloa ever quite made the All Blacks during his career.

The Soviet tour of NZ had already concluded by the time the All Blacks squad departed for Argentina, and the Romanian tour only overlapped by one match. It was very much an experimental period with the World Cup to come later that year. Chris Tregaskis struggled to hold down a place in the Wellington rep team but somehow ended up in Argentina - which Andy Haden described as a "joke." I seem to recall the NZ XV which played Russia and the Emerging Players (under-23?) who encountered Romania were quite similar, yes. Tagaloa was undoubtedly one of the individual stars. Buck Shelford, Olo Brown, Bull Allen, Norm Hewett, Robin Brooke and Eroni Clarke were also involved. Eion Crossan was a goal-kicking machine who played in one or both of these fixtures but switched to league soon after.

Why the world cup must go to 24 teams: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... 0.facebook
Last edited by Edgar on Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 11:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 08:04

Immenso wrote:That 1991 Soviet team.

Sergeev the lock was very good. Pre-lifting days. Brilliant jumper at number 4.
Tichonov the number 8, excellent.
Also a young loose forward, 6/8 who I can't remember his name, was very good.

Their whole pack, except the front row/scrummaging, was very good - but those two stood out.

Igor Mironov was a decent player too in the backs, good enough to be picked for the 'Rest of Europe' squad that played the British Lions in 1990 and the Barbarians a few times.

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Vova12 » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 08:24

New Zealand - USSR

https://ok.ru/video/91633748585

Canterbury - USSR

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby 4N » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 11:21

Ser Podrick of Payne wrote:
Immenso wrote:That 1991 Soviet team.

Sergeev the lock was very good. Pre-lifting days. Brilliant jumper at number 4.
Tichonov the number 8, excellent.
Also a young loose forward, 6/8 who I can't remember his name, was very good.

Their whole pack, except the front row/scrummaging, was very good - but those two stood out.

Igor Mironov was a decent player too in the backs, good enough to be picked for the 'Rest of Europe' squad that played the British Lions in 1990 and the Barbarians a few times.


Andrei Kovalenko, who later emigrated to Spain and was their star player at the 1999 RWC, was also in that team. His son is on the fringes of the Spanish team now.

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Immenso » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 11:28

Ser Podrick of Payne wrote:
Immenso wrote:That 1991 Soviet team.

Sergeev the lock was very good. Pre-lifting days. Brilliant jumper at number 4.
Tichonov the number 8, excellent.
Also a young loose forward, 6/8 who I can't remember his name, was very good.

Their whole pack, except the front row/scrummaging, was very good - but those two stood out.

Igor Mironov was a decent player too in the backs, good enough to be picked for the 'Rest of Europe' squad that played the British Lions in 1990 and the Barbarians a few times.

Yes, since my post above, and before reading your post,I had googled the team and upon seeing Mironov's name - memory was immediately triggered that I'd missed mentioning him too. Left wing, very good player.

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Vova12 » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 12:10

4N wrote:Andrei Kovalenko, who later emigrated to Spain and was their star player at the 1999 RWC, was also in that team. His son is on the fringes of the Spanish team now.

He is from Ukraine.
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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Vova12 » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 12:20

Immenso wrote:Yes, since my post above, and before reading your post,I had googled the team and upon seeing Mironov's name - memory was immediately triggered that I'd missed mentioning him too. Left wing, very good player.

Mironov - Italy 16 - 14 ...

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby 4N » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 12:26

Vova12 wrote:
4N wrote:Andrei Kovalenko, who later emigrated to Spain and was their star player at the 1999 RWC, was also in that team. His son is on the fringes of the Spanish team now.

He is from Ukraine.


Played for USSR, Ukraine, Spain. As you know Aviator Kiev were one of the top Soviet clubs in those days.

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Vova12 » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 12:30

4N wrote:
Vova12 wrote:
4N wrote:Andrei Kovalenko, who later emigrated to Spain and was their star player at the 1999 RWC, was also in that team. His son is on the fringes of the Spanish team now.

He is from Ukraine.


Played for USSR, Ukraine, Spain. As you know Aviator Kiev were one of the top Soviet clubs in those days.

1989 - 91 played for VVA.

https://rugger.info/news/17045
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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 12:35

Reminds me Rugby World & Post

From my archives

SOV test # 72
1986 16/11 Genoa v ITA W 16-14 FIRA

SOV.SPORT had detailed report
Tided-up team list:

* Soviets

1 Samardin Boris, 2 Malikov Rauf, 3 Kirpa Andrey
4 Zhuravlyov Nicolay (Plotnikov Nicolay 52'), 5 Sokolov Andrey
6 Kushnaryov Viktor, 7 Hairulin Ramil, 8 Tikhonov Alexander

9 Frantzuzov Igor, 10 Slyusar Oleg
11 Mironov Igor CAPT, 12 Nechaev Igor, 13 Andreev Alexander, 14 Filimonov Alexander
15 Zuev Evgeny (Voropaev Vladislav 62')

t 4p: Mironov = SOV.SPORT has 4p, NO dg (COULD be paper's error)

* Italy

3t: Ghizzoni Innocenti Collodo (in this order)

* ITA first: 0-3 0-6 4-6(30') HT /
10-6(45') 10-9(52') 10-12(56') 14-12(69') 14-16(80+6') FT

On a winning try Voropaev passed to Mironov

* Coach Bobkov Igor (Ukraine)


KOVALENKO played for VVA Monino in 1991
and became top scorer of Supreme League with 218 pts
(in MAX 24 matches)

A year earlier (1990) BOLDAKOV of SKA Almaty scored 318 pts
(in MAX 28 matches) -- RECORD of SOV era

On 20/10_1996 he scored ALL 20 pts for RUS
in their first, epic loss to GEO 20-29

:::
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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Canalina » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 12:36

Ser Podrick of Payne wrote:...picked for the 'Rest of Europe' squad that played the British Lions in 1990 and the Barbarians a few times.

I like that concept, it would be good to see occasionally a "Rugby Europe" select, even if I know that this kind of select usually results in a thing weaker than the sum of its players.
The adventure of the african "Leopards" was short and unfortunately not memorable

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Canalina » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 12:39

Vova12 wrote:
Immenso wrote:Yes, since my post above, and before reading your post,I had googled the team and upon seeing Mironov's name - memory was immediately triggered that I'd missed mentioning him too. Left wing, very good player.

Mironov - Italy 16 - 14 ...

Image

With nowadays point system Italy would have won 17-14...

Rugint, if you're reading, that match (16/11/1986) is listed on your site as 16-4 to Russia, with no venue. You may correct the score and add Genoa as a venue
http://www.rugbyinternational.net/countries/russia.htm

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby 4N » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 12:44

Canalina wrote:
Ser Podrick of Payne wrote:...picked for the 'Rest of Europe' squad that played the British Lions in 1990 and the Barbarians a few times.

I like that concept, it would be good to see occasionally a "Rugby Europe" select, even if I know that this kind of select usually results in a thing weaker than the sum of its players.
The adventure of the african "Leopards" was short and unfortunately not memorable


Something like this happened in 2009.

https://www.world.rugby/news/24920

Europe XV: 1. Olivier Tissot (Montpellier RC) 2. Joan Caudullo (Montpellier RC) 3. Vincent Debaty (ASM Clermont) 4. Sorin Socol (Oloron) 5. Goncalo Uva (GD Direito) 6. Matthew Clarkin (Montauban TG), Capitaine 7. Magnus Lund (Biarritz Olympique) 8. Robert Mohr (Stade Rochelais) 9. Pablo Feijoo (CRC Madrid) 10. Nicolas Laharrague (USA Perpignan) 11. Sepp Visser (Newcastle) 12. Philip Christophers (Castres Olympique) 13. Miguel Portela (GD Direito, Portugal) 14. Samuele Pace (Viadana) 15. David Chartier (Aviron Bayonnais).

Replacements: 16. Rémy Bonfils (Stade Français Paris) 17. Bastien Sipielski (Marmande) 18. Juan Murre (FC Auch) 19. Mathieu Verschelden (ASUB Waterloo) 20. Luis Pissarra (Agronomia) 21. Tiberius Dimofte (Bucarest) 22. César Sempere (CRC Madrid) 23. Pierre Hendrickx (Boitsfort).

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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Vova12 » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 12:53

Probably all this needs to be transferred to OLD STUFF - rarities! 8-)
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Re: 2019 Tests/ RWC warm ups

Postby Canalina » Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 13:00

Again a dive-into-the-past parenthesis... this is an italian newspaper's report of that match

https://i.postimg.cc/9M2jWfbB/stampa.png

LA STAMPA SERA Monday 17 November 1986
Rugby: Italy beaten by the USSR
MIRONOV ENTERS AND THE AZZURRI GO IN CRASH
In the fifth minute of recovery the Red Army officer went to the goal by shifting ours like skittles: and the result turned upside down. Mondelli: "It will be for another time ..."
FROM OUR MAN IN GENOA - Maurizio Mondelli, president of the Fedarazione Italiana Rugby, at the end said with a smile: "We had a good game, we played well, we wanted to win .. It will be another time". This is the comment after the defeat in the European Cup match by our national team by the USSR for 16-14. When the games seemed made, already towards the fifth minute of recovery (in rugby it is normal for the 40 minutes to be extended to compensate for the numerous stops) the Soviets pulled out the ace from the sleeve. It was no surprise: everyone knew that Igor Mironov, a thirty-one year old officer of the Red Army, is a champion. But perhaps Bollesan's men did not expect such a violent reaction, just when they already believed they had the result in their pockets. Instead the gigantic guests improvised an incredible carousel starting from the midfield. The oval balloon disappeared in the middle of those vigorous arms, ours threw themselves to dead weight but every time they managed to hit a man, to try to tackle him, the ball had already changed hands. Until it ended up among those of Mironov, who threw himself like a lightning bolt forward and fell over the goal line moving the Italians like bowling pins. Thus the blond official scored four points, which added to the twelve accumulated previously with four free kicks secured the victory of the USSR ". The three beautiful goals of Bollesan's men, obtained in the order from Ghizzoni, Collodo and Innocenti, were of no use. The budget is no different from the usual: more imagination, more mobility from the Italian team, more precision and concreteness from the USSR. Which at the right moment also knew how to act psychologically and acted with an impressive speed, supported by an enviable technical and physical preparation. Now the European Cup speech, the target Bollesan was aiming for with some ambition, seems to be closed, even though many games still have to be played. Italy will have to agree to transform the next commitments in a series of tests in view of the next world championships, the first In all the history from rugby, which will take place in May-June in New Zealand and Australia. The Azzurri, admitted Together with 15 other teams (the USSR has been excluded) they have absolutely no ambitions, also because they are closed by a round of iron with the All Blacks, Australia and the Fiji Islands team. But the opportunity is good especially for learning. Bollesan will have to take advantage of the experience to understand in which direction he will have to work. Although we know very well what the deficiencies of our rugby are. A "base" too narrow and few means available, with the players from the best teams who train for the majority only once a week, with an amateurishness that has remained isolated (certainly a champion of bowls or table tennis gains immensely more of how much it doesn't receive as repayment the strongest Italian rugby player) it cannot go very far. We can be satisfied, rather we must be content to say: "Too bad we could beat the USSR, it will be for another time".

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 08:36

COLLECTOR COINS minted in GEORGIA

From OLD LELO to RUGBY WORLD CUP

https://www.nbg.gov.ge/index.php?m=340& ... 37&lng=eng

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Image

From August 29th, 2019 the coins will be available in
the Cash Center of the National Bank of Georgia (located at 72, Kakheti Highway, Tbilisi),
Money Museum in Kvareli, as well as, the online store.

https://www.moneymuseum.nbg.gov.ge/inde ... news_id=27

:::

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Canalina » Wed, 04 Sep 2019, 08:08

5th European Veterans Festival this weekend in Belluno, north-eastern Italy near the Alps

Games on friday and sunday (saturday: pleasure trips to Venice or Cortina d'Ampezzo)
Teams from Italy, Belgium, Spain, Wales, Netherlands, France, Ukraine, Germany, Hungary, Poland and Portugal, plus a mixed Europe over 50 team.
They tried to organize also a women's tournament but with no success: just an italian team answered positively

https://www.facebook.com/pg/evrabelluno ... 8143171922

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Re: OLD STUFF - rarities

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 06 Sep 2019, 07:07

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8-)
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