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Sevens World Series/7's News

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby mulu » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 08:24

Armchair Fan wrote:Seeing how Chile has performed these weeks and having American World Series rounds as a perfect warm-up I would put them as strong favourites, right there with Tonga, Germany, Hong Kong or Uganda. Let's see.


doubt Tonga will be up there, also Spain must be strong favorites after their performance at the olympics.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 08:41

Armchair Fan wrote:Seeing how Chile has performed these weeks and having American World Series rounds as a perfect warm-up I would put them as strong favourites, right there with Tonga, Germany, Hong Kong or Uganda. Let's see.


I see what you did there 8-)
Spain is also a favourite.

But really looks like a strong tournament coming up. Only the two North America teams should be way worse than the rest. But maybe we see a surprise. Also there isn't as big as a favourite as Japan was in 2016 this year.

Europe sends the same two teams.
Oceania stays the same with PNG being the worst team to qualify again.

Africa seems the strongest overall with two new teams for two QF teams in 2016. Actually the only QF teams that haven't qualified again (Japan is there in the W7S).
Asia is Sri Lanka for Japan.

And the most changes are in the Americas were 3 of the 4 worst teams of last year's edition (Mexico, the Cayman Islands, Brazil) are replaced. And it has the strangest qualification route with actually just 4 out of 8 teams allowed to qualified. The Americas need to merge for this. A tournament with 1 team from Oceania, 2 from NA and just 5 from SA is just a joke as qualifying competition for such a tournament.

Quite a good wiki-site with links to all the qualifying competitions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hong_Kong_Sevens
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 09:35

mulu wrote:doubt Tonga will be up there, also Spain must be strong favorites after their performance at the olympics.


RugbyLiebe wrote:I see what you did there 8-)
Spain is also a favourite.


It may sound weird, but I don't think we stand a chance. What happened back in June was a miracle, a one-off. Since Rio, 7s team has almost disbanded: no training camps, no national coach until last week, many players have new priorities, a row over Olympic grants... Even Pablo Feijóo is saying on interviews that the goal is to qualify for 2018 7s RWC rather than clinching Kong Kong Sevens.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 12:48

Who will be Hong Kong's main tournament 16th team? Again Korea (3rd in the Asian Sevens)?

I think Portugal shoud to be invited to at least one tournament, as the last relegated team...
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 13:18

victorsra wrote:Who will be Hong Kong's main tournament 16th team? Again Korea (3rd in the Asian Sevens)?

I think Portugal shoud to be invited to at least one tournament, as the last relegated team...


My guess is also Korea again.
Why Portugal? They finished 7th in the last European Grand Prix Series. So at least two of those teams (Spain, Germany, Georgia and Italy) should be invited for at least one stage.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby gibbs » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 14:30

victorsra wrote:Who will be Hong Kong's main tournament 16th team? Again Korea (3rd in the Asian Sevens)?

I think Portugal shoud to be invited to at least one tournament, as the last relegated team...


RugbyLiebe wrote:
victorsra wrote:Who will be Hong Kong's main tournament 16th team? Again Korea (3rd in the Asian Sevens)?

I think Portugal shoud to be invited to at least one tournament, as the last relegated team...


My guess is also Korea again.
Why Portugal? They finished 7th in the last European Grand Prix Series. So at least two of those teams (Spain, Germany, Georgia and Italy) should be invited for at least one stage.


Nope it's Sri Lanka.. Finished second in Asian sevens behind HK.. Japan is already a core team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hong_Kong_Sevens
Last edited by gibbs on Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 14:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby DRL » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 14:34

gibbs wrote:
victorsra wrote:Who will be Hong Kong's main tournament 16th team? Again Korea (3rd in the Asian Sevens)?

I think Portugal shoud to be invited to at least one tournament, as the last relegated team...


RugbyLiebe wrote:
victorsra wrote:Who will be Hong Kong's main tournament 16th team? Again Korea (3rd in the Asian Sevens)?

I think Portugal shoud to be invited to at least one tournament, as the last relegated team...


My guess is also Korea again.
Why Portugal? They finished 7th in the last European Grand Prix Series. So at least two of those teams (Spain, Germany, Georgia and Italy) should be invited for at least one stage.


Nope it's Sri Lanka.. Finished third in Asian sevens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hong_Kong_Sevens


Sri Lanka plays the Qualifier NOT the Main Tournament.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby gibbs » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 14:36

DRL wrote:
gibbs wrote:
victorsra wrote:Who will be Hong Kong's main tournament 16th team? Again Korea (3rd in the Asian Sevens)?

I think Portugal shoud to be invited to at least one tournament, as the last relegated team...


RugbyLiebe wrote:
victorsra wrote:Who will be Hong Kong's main tournament 16th team? Again Korea (3rd in the Asian Sevens)?

I think Portugal shoud to be invited to at least one tournament, as the last relegated team...


My guess is also Korea again.
Why Portugal? They finished 7th in the last European Grand Prix Series. So at least two of those teams (Spain, Germany, Georgia and Italy) should be invited for at least one stage.


Nope it's Sri Lanka.. Finished third in Asian sevens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hong_Kong_Sevens


Sri Lanka plays the Qualifier NOT the Main Tournament.


Oh ok.. So this is an invitational slot ?

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 17:09

Why Portugal? They finished 7th in the last European Grand Prix Series. So at least two of those teams (Spain, Germany, Georgia and Italy) should be invited for at least one stage.

As I said, because it is the last team relegated from the main series. Germany and Spain can't be invited to the main tournament because it is played at the same time of the Qualy tournament. The same reason why Hong Kong and Sri Lanka can't be in the main series.

If Korea is again invited Hong Kong Sevens would be the only tournament in the series that the 16th team is the only one which is not the best of its continent among those outside of the main series.

That's why Portugal would be more interesting thinking about the level of the tournament and because the condition of last relegated team would be a real criterea behind it. Let's remember World Rugby invited Japan to FOUR tournaments in the year after its relegation (in 2015-16).

Oh ok.. So this is an invitational slot ?


Every Sevens Series tournament has 15 core team and 1 invited,usualy the best of each region of each tournament. However, the Hong Kong Sevens can't invite the strongest Asian sides because there is the Qualy tournament, in other words, the World Second Division, a single tournament with 12 teams (2 best from each continent that are not core teams of the main series).
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 20:30

Armchair Fan wrote:Even Pablo Feijóo is saying on interviews that the goal is to qualify for 2018 7s RWC rather than clinching Kong Kong Sevens.


That's beyond stupid. The best strategy to qualify is to play the Hong Kong qualifier and get into the World Series.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 20:38

Portugal has played poorly at the 2016 European Grand Prix.

Italy or Georgia would be more interesting wildcards than South Korea.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 20:45

NaBUru38 wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Even Pablo Feijóo is saying on interviews that the goal is to qualify for 2018 7s RWC rather than clinching Kong Kong Sevens.


That's beyond stupid. The best strategy to qualify is to play the Hong Kong qualifier and get into the World Series.

Obviously. But it says a lot about what realistic goals are being set for Spanish 7s right now. In that interview he even began to say that it was time to make a generational switch, that his generation needed 12 years to reach world level, that we need to be calm with youngsters...

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 21:03

In 2015 the Hong Kong Sevens invited the best European left, Belgium, instead of the best Asian left. It is a possibility indeed.

In 2016 and 2014 they invited the best Asian left (Korea in 2016 and Sri Lanka in 2014). Does it mean Georgia in 2017 (best European left)?

In 2013 it was Hong Kong, because they failed to qualify to the Qualy tournament.

About other tournaments, Spain probably will be invited to Paris and London, while Hong Kong to Singapore, if they follow the same logic of the first tournaments.

I like this system of giving the best of a region two tournaments to play. As in Dubai it is usually an African, Asia is the only one with just one tournament for its best, as Hong Kong is a different tournament. Maybe this concept would work better with 11 tournaments. Tokyo should return. Also, if everything works well, the Americas are supposed to have one single series at the end of this year.
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby gibbs » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 05:42

victorsra wrote:

Every Sevens Series tournament has 15 core team and 1 invited,usualy the best of each region of each tournament. However, the Hong Kong Sevens can't invite the strongest Asian sides because there is the Qualy tournament, in other words, the World Second Division, a single tournament with 12 teams (2 best from each continent that are not core teams of the main series).


:thumbup: .. So the invitee would ideally be from the host region

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 08:16

victorsra wrote:In 2015 the Hong Kong Sevens invited the best European left, Belgium, instead of the best Asian left. It is a possibility indeed.

In 2016 and 2014 they invited the best Asian left (Korea in 2016 and Sri Lanka in 2014). Does it mean Georgia in 2017 (best European left)?

In 2013 it was Hong Kong, because they failed to qualify to the Qualy tournament.

About other tournaments, Spain probably will be invited to Paris and London, while Hong Kong to Singapore, if they follow the same logic of the first tournaments.

I like this system of giving the best of a region two tournaments to play. As in Dubai it is usually an African, Asia is the only one with just one tournament for its best, as Hong Kong is a different tournament. Maybe this concept would work better with 11 tournaments. Tokyo should return. Also, if everything works well, the Americas are supposed to have one single series at the end of this year.


I would stick to an Asian team and didn't even think about the European option for Hong Kong. Hence why I wrote Korea and "So at least two of those teams (Spain, Germany, Georgia and Italy) should be invited for at least one stage." without mentioning HK at all about your Portugal suggestion.

Japan got incredible 5 tournaments last year as a non-core-team - but that was mainly due to the still questionable decision of Brazil to not form a more or less pro 7s team in the Olympic year because of 15s.

The invitees:
2015/16: Japan (5 times!), Brazil (2 taking both European tournament spots), Zimbabwe (1), South Korea (1).
2014/15: Brazil (3), American Samoa (1), Belgium (1), Hong Kong (1), Papua New Guinea (1), Russia (1), Zimbabwe (1)
2013/14: Japan (3), Tonga (2), Russia (1), Uruguay (1), Zimbabwe (1), Sri Lanka (1)

In regions over 3 years: Asia (11), South America (6), Oceania (4), Africa (3), Europe (3), North America (0).

So what we see is a ridiculous disadvantage for both Africa and Europe for non-core-teams with just 1 team invited per year. Especially if you see the depth which is behind both regions (two 6 nations team not good enough to even qualify for the HK-Qualifier).

SA just profited from the Olympic games, which is fair enough and Asia from Japan not being a core team (which also makes sense as you need an Asian team in a World Series). North America does simply not have any teams worth being there as you can see each year in the HK-Qualifier.

What I would do is give a set amount to the continental Unions. Europe (2), Africa (2), Oceania (2), Asia (2), Americas (1).

This year we already know: Chile (2), Papua New Guinea (2), Uganda (2), 4 TBA (tournaments in Hong Kong, Singapore, France, England).
Following this logic it should be two different Asian teams (South Korea for HK in the HK-qualifier and then HK in Singapore) and than either Spain or Germany for 2 legs. If one of those qualify for 2017/18, this will be the team to get the spot. If another team qualifies this team will maybe "steal" another European spot.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 12:33

There will be a Pan-American Series starting late this year, which means (I hope) the places in Las Vegas and Vancouver will be constested by Mexico and the Caribbeans as well, and not just by South Americans, solving the problem. For Mexico and the Carbbeans it is more useful now to play in the Americas Series, to raise their level.

The problem about this system is that it is unstable. For exemple, if Canada is relegated, Vancouver's place will belong to the host country, taking one place away from the Americas. And for how long Singapore and Dubai won't field the host team?

Maybe a better way is to give each continent 1 spot for invited teams and the other places should go to the best teams of the last year's Qualy Tournament (and missing host countries), proving that nobody receives more than 1 invitation every season. This would give the Qualy tournament (or an eventual 2nd division series) even more value. If the some team wins their regional spot and also finishes high in the Qualy tournament it is that region that should get another spot.

Exemple for 10 tournaments

Last HK Qualy best 5 or non-core host countries: from 2016, Hong Kong, Germany, Zimbabwe, UAE and Singapore (or Spain and Chile, if you rule UAE and Singapore out)
+
1 Europe: Spain (or Georgia)
1 Asia: Sri Lanka
1 Africa: Uganda
1 Oceania: PNG
1 Americas: Chile (or Uruguay)
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 13:04

@Victor

I like the general idea. You are on to something. But some problems arise from this.
1) in your example there would be 4 Asian spots due to Asia having two nations hosting a tournament without having a team on the W7S.

So overall, I prefer the "2 all" solution. With 10 instead of 9 tournaments outside of Olympic years, everyone gets 2 places and it doesn't really matter if a team is relegated or not. I do totally agree on the 1 tournament only idea.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Wed, 18 Jan 2017, 04:43

Yes, I think UAE and Singapore are a problem for WR (a good one), because yes they can provide money and good tournaments (we don't need to mention how Dubai 7s is great) but what about their national teams? Will these tournaments be just events for expats? Dubai has the advantage that the UAE team can play the invitational tournament, but Singapore doesn't have this (right?).
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby gibbs » Wed, 18 Jan 2017, 07:09

victorsra wrote:Yes, I think UAE and Singapore are a problem for WR (a good one), because yes they can provide money and good tournaments (we don't need to mention how Dubai 7s is great) but what about their national teams? Will these tournaments be just events for expats? Dubai has the advantage that the UAE team can play the invitational tournament, but Singapore doesn't have this (right?).


Been to HK, Dubai and last year to Singapore 7's.. Yes these tournaments are catered to expats mainly.. Almost 90% of the crowds were non local.. All three venues have a distinct advantage of having large resident expat communities, If not these wont be financially viable

Singapore may have had little more of local involvement than the other two imho, Maybe it's because it was thier first year.. Dubai the least

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby nick511 » Wed, 18 Jan 2017, 07:18

Singapore did play in the final of the South East Asian 7's during the last tourny held there on the main pitch, the other games in that tourny were held on a ground elsewhere.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Coloradoan » Wed, 18 Jan 2017, 21:00

USA squad for the next 2 IRB tournaments:

Men's Eagles Sevens | HSBC Wellington Sevens / HSBC Sydney7s
1. Carlin Isles
2. Matai Leuta
3. Danny Barrett
4. Brett Thompson
5. Don Pati
6. Andrew Durutalo
7. Folau Niua
8. Kevon Williams
9. Stephen Tomasin
10. Madison Hughes (C)
11. Perry Baker
12. Martin Iosefo

Read more at https://www.usarugby.org/2017/01/isles- ... Ll6PRMS.99


Interestingly, you have 3 outright burners there in Isles, Baker and Williams. Sounds like they'll try Williams in other backline spots too, so it should be pretty interesting when 2 of those 3 are on the pitch at once.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 27 Jan 2017, 17:02

According to Pablo Feijóo Spain should be invited to Paris and London: https://rugbyalcala.wordpress.com/2017/ ... -el-seven/

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby LeesLegends » Mon, 06 Mar 2017, 09:07

Armchair Fan wrote:According to Pablo Feijóo Spain should be invited to Paris and London: https://rugbyalcala.wordpress.com/2017/ ... -el-seven/


I agree with him, as the best non-core team from the 2016 Euro series they deserve it IMO, regardless of who wins the Hong Kong Qualifier. But who knows what World Rugby will do. You'd think HK will get the 16th spot in Singapore, and the 16th spot at the main Hong Kong tournament could be from Georgia, South Korea, Cook Islands, Madagascar or Colombia, the 3rd place teams from each continental series. Not including RAN. Georgia and Madagascar look the most appealing to me

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 06 Mar 2017, 09:24

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. It wasn't an opinion. They are working on the assumption they will be at both tournaments, regardless of what happens at Hong Kong. The biggest headache may come later, because Paris and London are on the same weekends as División de Honor play-offs

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby LeesLegends » Mon, 06 Mar 2017, 09:30

Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood your use of the word 'should'.

Well that's great news then, but yeah unfortunate scheduling. What takes the priority?

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