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Sevens World Series/7's News

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sun, 09 Apr 2017, 12:45

Also maybe puts a little pressure on WR. Not exactly a good look for them in public that a core team would not get additional funding to help them. nice article by NZ expat Sam Agars (funny he seemed to report on tennis in NZ and not rugby). Veteran HKG and SCMP journo Alvin Sallay must have retired.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Sun, 09 Apr 2017, 13:30

Congrats Spain! And well done Germany, Chile and PNG.

Who said Chilean rugby is dead? (well, I heard this a couple of times in Brazil...)
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 09 Apr 2017, 13:51

Does anyone know how the finances of the world series work?

Who gets the money from the events? Almost all the legs seem well attended, its constantly on TV in the UK at some pretty good viewing times so will surely get some decent money there, they have a decent array of sponsors.

Someone said earlier that World Rugby pay travel costs, is there no prize money?

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby NaBUru38 » Sun, 09 Apr 2017, 23:53

Armchair Fan wrote: let's be honest, we need to destroy Germany, Brazil and Uruguay every single time we meet[/b], in either XV or 7s, men or women, under age or senior, just to prove World Rugby should give us their money :D


If the Spain 7 team defeats Uruguay and Brazil, it means absolutely nothing. Your direct rivals are European.

It's time to give a third spot at the Hong Kong qualifier to Europe and take one from North America.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 00:01

But the other way round would mean a lot, thus the need to win every single time. And no, I don't feel our main rivals are only European. From 18th to 24th in World Rankings + Germany and Brazil wherever they are, we're all in the same boat, fighting for the same resources from World Rugby.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 00:26

I couldn't watch the matches. Getting thrashed to Spain and losing Papua New Guinea and Chile is in any case a bad result, if rather predictable.

Chile defeated Hong Kong and Namibia, then lost decently to Germany. They should be proud.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 00:49

I don't think Spain should be worried. I am pretty sure the Spanish market is almost as important as the German and the Brazilian markets for World Rugby, because you have already more fans and have more solid foundations than the others.
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 01:41

It's such a shame there are so many important markets fighting over essentially one spot. This is the problem with the world cup as well. There's a bunch of core teams that are constantly around taking up 90% of the places, and a whole batch of teams trying to break in to fill the remaining 10%. I honestly think that expansion has to be considered for the sevens as well as RWC.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 02:54

thatrugbyguy wrote:It's such a shame there are so many important markets fighting over essentially one spot. This is the problem with the world cup as well. There's a bunch of core teams that are constantly around taking up 90% of the places, and a whole batch of teams trying to break in to fill the remaining 10%. I honestly think that expansion has to be considered for the sevens as well as RWC.


There was some talk about WR looking to set up a secondary tour late last year. I think that would go a fair way to sorting out some issues. I'd prefer them to do it using existing regional boundaries and building from existing structures if already in place. So Africa, Asia-Pacific, Americas and Europe. Each region to have 8 teams playing 6-8 individual legs all leading into Hong Kong.

I think this would engage more countries and build greater depth.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 05:01

Another strong showing in the WS. I can't wait for Singapore. Only way to go up is to actually win the damn things.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 06:46

victorsra wrote:I don't think Spain should be worried. I am pretty sure the Spanish market is almost as important as the German and the Brazilian markets for World Rugby, because you have already more fans and have more solid foundations than the others.


The difference would be that Germany's participation on the World Series would have been opening up a literally untapped new market. As Rugby in general is still not really known in Germany, the 7s could have and would have made big inroads in Germany - while in Spain the focus of the fans is probably more on the 15s. But yeah, Spain could also become a really big and important market.
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Sables4EVA » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 06:58

What this proves is that a 2nd Tier World Series would be competitive and exciting.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby germanbullsfan » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 07:12

Sables4EVA wrote:What this proves is that a 2nd Tier World Series would be competitive and exciting.

In competited sportsmarkets like Germany etc, nobody wants to watch second stringers competitions , here you want compete with the best !
That would be a stupid idea

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 07:14

germanbullsfan wrote:
Sables4EVA wrote:What this proves is that a 2nd Tier World Series would be competitive and exciting.

In competited sportsmarkets like Germany etc, nobody wants to watch second stringers competitions , here you want compete with the best !
That would be a stupid idea


I don't agree very often with GBF, but here I concur.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Neptune » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 09:06

sk 88 wrote:Does anyone know how the finances of the world series work?

Who gets the money from the events? Almost all the legs seem well attended, its constantly on TV in the UK at some pretty good viewing times so will surely get some decent money there, they have a decent array of sponsors.

Someone said earlier that World Rugby pay travel costs, is there no prize money?


This is the second year in a run that Hong Kong wont have prize money. Previously, the prize money was 150K dollars.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/hong-kon ... oney-55524

WR caters for travel and accomodation for all the core teams in the series. The host unions make money from broadcast rights, betting rights and gate collection. The players income comes from their respective unions, since they are contracted players, but in the case of Fiji, the Hong Kong prize money is part of their income, sadly it has been withdrawn by the HKRU.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 09:18

victorsra wrote:I don't think Spain should be worried. I am pretty sure the Spanish market is almost as important as the German and the Brazilian markets for World Rugby, because you have already more fans and have more solid foundations than the others.

Victor, we are worried because since Agustín Pichot visited Spain last summer and had lunch with FER president he hasn't lost any chance to "forget" Spain when talking about Tier 2, Tier 3 and emerging nations and in a couple of interviews he's said we should follow the same path as Brazil. I promise you I'm no paranoid. He came here, he didn't like what he saw and he's been giving us a few slaps in the face since.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby ihateblazers » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 09:37

Armchair Fan wrote:
victorsra wrote:I don't think Spain should be worried. I am pretty sure the Spanish market is almost as important as the German and the Brazilian markets for World Rugby, because you have already more fans and have more solid foundations than the others.

Victor, we are worried because since Agustín Pichot visited Spain last summer and had lunch with FER president he hasn't lost any chance to "forget" Spain when talking about Tier 2, Tier 3 and emerging nations and in a couple of interviews he's said we should follow the same path as Brazil. I promise you I'm no paranoid. He came here, he didn't like what he saw and he's been giving us a few slaps in the face since.


Does Spain and Argentina have much collaboration? In terms of intellectual property, exchange programmes etc...

I think it would be in Latin America's interests to have a strong Spanish game on the continent. If you end up having a pro league in Spain, there could be opportunities as well.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 09:51

Officially, no. As a union, FER collaborates more with RFU, IRFU or WRU than FFR or UAR. But there are lots of players and coaches from Argentina and many of them have participated in our national teams. Even Pablo Feijóo's current assistant coach is an Argentine-born former Spanish 7s player, Facundo Lavino.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby ihateblazers » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 10:59

Could be something to look to grow. I'm a bit surprised by the lack of engagement with the FFR. I suppose there might be a bit of bad blood between the Basque and Catalan clubs either side of the border.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 11:38

Neptune wrote:
sk 88 wrote:Does anyone know how the finances of the world series work?

Who gets the money from the events? Almost all the legs seem well attended, its constantly on TV in the UK at some pretty good viewing times so will surely get some decent money there, they have a decent array of sponsors.

Someone said earlier that World Rugby pay travel costs, is there no prize money?


This is the second year in a run that Hong Kong wont have prize money. Previously, the prize money was 150K dollars.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/hong-kon ... oney-55524

WR caters for travel and accomodation for all the core teams in the series. The host unions make money from broadcast rights, betting rights and gate collection. The players income comes from their respective unions, since they are contracted players, but in the case of Fiji, the Hong Kong prize money is part of their income, sadly it has been withdrawn by the HKRU.



That seems a very unequal set up to me. The host unions take all the risk so it is right and proper that they benefit from their events financially but it seems that the participant-only nations get very little at all, in practical terms nothing at all to pay players or support staff. No wonder nations like Scotland were/are considering their investment in 7s since losing a leg.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 14:44

Working Class Rugger wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:It's such a shame there are so many important markets fighting over essentially one spot. This is the problem with the world cup as well. There's a bunch of core teams that are constantly around taking up 90% of the places, and a whole batch of teams trying to break in to fill the remaining 10%. I honestly think that expansion has to be considered for the sevens as well as RWC.


There was some talk about WR looking to set up a secondary tour late last year. I think that would go a fair way to sorting out some issues.

I'd prefer them to do it using existing regional boundaries and building from existing structures if already in place. So Africa, Asia-Pacific, Americas and Europe. Each region to have 8 teams playing 6-8 individual legs all leading into Hong Kong.

I think this would engage more countries and build greater depth.

I've proposed as a first step to invite Spain, Portugal and Italy to the South American Sevens Series.
It makes much more sense than inviting Fiji, no matter how well they play.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby carbonero » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 21:00

Armchair Fan wrote:
victorsra wrote:I don't think Spain should be worried. I am pretty sure the Spanish market is almost as important as the German and the Brazilian markets for World Rugby, because you have already more fans and have more solid foundations than the others.

Victor, we are worried because since Agustín Pichot visited Spain last summer and had lunch with FER president he hasn't lost any chance to "forget" Spain when talking about Tier 2, Tier 3 and emerging nations and in a couple of interviews he's said we should follow the same path as Brazil. I promise you I'm no paranoid. He came here, he didn't like what he saw and he's been giving us a few slaps in the face since.

Do you have examples of Pichot’s slaps in the face of Spanish rugby?

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 10 Apr 2017, 23:24

There it goes...

Excerpt from an interview given to Revista H:
“We must see what the plan is, to have a plan. Spain with women's rugby has a plan only on the short term, because in the long run it has nowhere to go. The Six Nations isn't open, so Spain will keep playing in a second tier. And regarding the number of games, how many times does men's national team play against Tier 1? None, doesn't it? Then, how many games has Spain to improve, in a fixed schedule outside REC? Three, four games maybe... We proposed to tour with Argentina XV in August last year and Spain wasn't even able to put a team together. That's what happens. Spain is a victim of that system, the very same system Argentina had back in 2005. It's the victim of system where you may export players, maybe nearby, but you can't take them back when you are in need. And that way it's impossible to be competitive and regularly beat Russia, Georgia, Romania... Qualifying for a RWC shouldn't rely on a single day performance, an inspiration or a player coming back, but on a project.”

--

Excerpt from an interview given to Revista Veintidós:
Q: Spain has always suffered from the fact IRB required us to present a development plan to obtain resources other European nations had. Is that a problem of our leaders?
A: That's what I told FER president. It's obvious.

Q: Is there any chance...?
A: My question is... Is there any chance we see Spain doing that?

Q: Is there any chance we see World Rugby sponsoring the process?
A: No. I made that very clear. Nobody is going to help you to build that roadmap. I took my country over my shoulders. We're going forward, we were fourth in the last RWC, fourth too in the last U20 RWC, among best 7s nations... 400 elite players... It's possible, yeah. It's a question of political will. Political seduction. To have a plan. From the plan I've been told by Spain there are things I disagree. I tried to explain my POV. The exercise Spain is doing now has already been achieved by other nations. Brazil did a plan nearly copied from Argentina's one. It can go either well or not, but they have a plan. Now they are knocking at World Rugby's door, asking for money. They have a plan, a very good plan.

Q: What conclusions can you draw from Spain's situation after what you heard?
A: You are in a very similar situation to Argentina's early steps. With the difference we ended up being third in a RWC. XV isn't strong enough and now you mix it up with 7s. You will have a problem. The only advice I gave to your president was to brake. To brake and erase everything. And it's what leaders dislike. They have a bad time. They inherit others' bills, whether that one was good or bad.

--

And then a few weeks ago he kindly reminded on Twitter again that we're following the wrong path:
https://twitter.com/AP9_/status/843131411146137600

--

To me it sounds like: you're doing it all wrong. Stop calling French-born players, stop funding women's rugby, use sevens only as a development tool. Forget about 2019 RWC and focus on development. Have a look at Brazil, they are really in the know, not like you. Wait, did they really intend to tour Spain in August? Three months after the local league was over? Really?

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 11 Apr 2017, 03:09

sk 88 wrote:
That seems a very unequal set up to me. The host unions take all the risk so it is right and proper that they benefit from their events financially but it seems that the participant-only nations get very little at all, in practical terms nothing at all to pay players or support staff. No wonder nations like Scotland were/are considering their investment in 7s since losing a leg.


USAR doesn't own the rights to USA 7s. It is owned by UWS, and Prusmack has done a lot for the game in the US as a player and as a benefactor. So he takes the gate there.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Coloradoan » Tue, 11 Apr 2017, 03:23

TheStroBro wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
That seems a very unequal set up to me. The host unions take all the risk so it is right and proper that they benefit from their events financially but it seems that the participant-only nations get very little at all, in practical terms nothing at all to pay players or support staff. No wonder nations like Scotland were/are considering their investment in 7s since losing a leg.


USAR doesn't own the rights to USA 7s. It is owned by UWS, and Prusmack has done a lot for the game in the US as a player and as a benefactor. So he takes the gate there.


USAR initially had the rights and sold most of it to UWS. They also retain a stake, somewhere between 10% and 25% IIRC. Anyway, SK's point is still valid in that the host, whether that is a union or a private entity, is taking on the risk. That said, if the 7WS continues developing into such a profitable entity around the world and the number of events is limited by player welfare concerns, the hosts are going to have to start sharing the profits more or World Rugby will be able to give their leg to someone who will share the profits more.

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