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Sevens World Series/7's News

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 01 Jul 2018, 22:00

mcruic wrote:QUARTER-FINALS
France 'B' 21-26 England 'B'
Russia 26-14 Wales 'B'

What makes these teams 'B' other than the assumption than because they are Tier 1 (not even World Series core teams, since Spain is one too) they don't care about European GPS? France fielded in Marcoussis 8 (+Bouhraoua, injured right before) of the 12 players from Paris 7s...

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Canalina » Mon, 02 Jul 2018, 12:34

The Marcoussis 7s has been the tournament of the lost things

- the russian baggage lost by the airport personnel
- tournament photo presentation lost by russian captain (probably for the reason above)
- some tries and several actions lost by the a-bit-slow cameramen
- women's day one's streaming lost due to technical issues
- a shoe lost by a welsh player during a match with Italy
- a contact lens lost by a swedish player due to a not voluntary slap by an italian
... and maybe some other losses that I could have lost : )

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby NedRugby » Mon, 02 Jul 2018, 20:26

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Canalina wrote:But England, Wales, Spain and France are exempted, right?


Yep, as they are already part of the World Series.


Scotland too. If they ever get relegated from the World Series their decision not to bother with the Euros might come back to bite them in the butt. I suppose they'd have to do an Ireland and start at the bottom of the pile again.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Blurandski » Mon, 02 Jul 2018, 20:47

NedRugby wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Canalina wrote:But England, Wales, Spain and France are exempted, right?


Yep, as they are already part of the World Series.


Scotland too. If they ever get relegated from the World Series their decision not to bother with the Euros might come back to bite them in the butt. I suppose they'd have to do an Ireland and start at the bottom of the pile again.


Ever since they lost their 7sWS leg they've been basically looking for a way to shut down their 7s programme (hence the floated idea of GB7S (that will happen eventually imo)). So if they dropped out I could see them ending the programme, but yes, I certainly couldn't see RE giving them a shortcut.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby mcruic » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 11:16

Armchair Fan wrote:
mcruic wrote:QUARTER-FINALS
France 'B' 21-26 England 'B'
Russia 26-14 Wales 'B'

What makes these teams 'B' other than the assumption than because they are Tier 1 (not even World Series core teams, since Spain is one too) they don't care about European GPS? France fielded in Marcoussis 8 (+Bouhraoua, injured right before) of the 12 players from Paris 7s...


For me, 80% of the time, England, Wales and France send their B teams or development teams to the European GPS (and state this quite clearly on their websites). Spain and Russia usually send their best team, or almost their best team. France usually fields a stronger team in the French leg of the series, and England usually fields a stronger team in the English leg of the series.

If you look at the results over the years, it is clear England, France and Wales do not send their A teams to these events - otherwise they would be 1st, 2nd and 3rd in almost every event - which is not the case.

If you are interested in calculating rankings (which I am) - it makes no sense to include the results of England, France and Wales, as they skew the statistics.

In the last round (in Russia), for example, France 4th, England 6th, Wales 9th. Would this happen if they had sent their A teams? No is the answer.

I therefore prefer to treat these as B teams, as in the majority of cases, that is what they are.
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby mulu » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 11:30

mcruic wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:
mcruic wrote:QUARTER-FINALS
France 'B' 21-26 England 'B'
Russia 26-14 Wales 'B'

What makes these teams 'B' other than the assumption than because they are Tier 1 (not even World Series core teams, since Spain is one too) they don't care about European GPS? France fielded in Marcoussis 8 (+Bouhraoua, injured right before) of the 12 players from Paris 7s...


For me, 80% of the time, England, Wales and France send their B teams or development teams to the European GPS (and state this quite clearly on their websites). Spain and Russia usually send their best team, or almost their best team. France usually fields a stronger team in the French leg of the series, and England usually fields a stronger team in the English leg of the series.

If you look at the results over the years, it is clear England, France and Wales do not send their A teams to these events - otherwise they would be 1st, 2nd and 3rd in almost every event - which is not the case.

If you are interested in calculated rankings (which I am) - it makes no sense to include the results of England, France and Wales, as they skew the statistics.

In the last round (in Russia), for example, France 4th, England 6th, Wales 9th. Would this happen if they had sent their A teams? No is the answer.

I therefore prefer to treat these as B teams, as in the majority of cases, that is what they are.


France had most probably their best team of the entire season in Marcoussis. England played with Lindsay-Hague, Hayter, Ellery, De Carpentier, Bowen, Olowofela, Glover and Edwards all of them regulars on the World Series.

Russia also fielded a stronger team than for most parts of the series.

So this time around only Wales really had a development team.

We (Germany) were without Fromm (Player of the HKG Final 18), Szczesny (German Top Try Scorer 16 & 17), Dieckmann (Top Try Scorer HGK 18), Hees (Starter HKG 16 and Oktoberfest 7s 17), Rainger (Captain), Brechenmacher and Saul all missing due to injury.

We had Andrew Nurse (20) on debut, Niklas Koch (21) played only his second tournament, Haase and Biniak played their first tournaments after more than a year out (crucial ligament injuries), etc. But if you field a team a the european championship and it wears the national team colors it is your national team and not a development side.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby mcruic » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 11:39

mulu wrote: But if you field a team a the european championship and it wears the national team colors it is your national team and not a development side.


I disagree. Teams have different priorities. England, for example, will never take this tournament as seriously as the World Series.

It may be "England" in the tournament statistics, but that is just ignoring the fact that it is not really the England national team.

Other teams may also be missing many players, but there is a difference between players being missing through injury or other commitments, and players deliberately being left out. England, France and Wales consistently and deliberately select sub-strength teams for the GPS.

Spain seem to have also selected a B team for the last round in Marcoussis.
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby rey200 » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 11:57

If you look at the results over the years, it is clear England, France and Wales do not send their A teams to these events - otherwise they would be 1st, 2nd and 3rd in almost every event - which is not the case.


what makes you so sure? Wales only ended up 4 times higher than Spain. Maybe England would win most of the tournaments, but considering that Spain was the second best european team, you might just be not right.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby mcruic » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 12:09

rey200 wrote:
If you look at the results over the years, it is clear England, France and Wales do not send their A teams to these events - otherwise they would be 1st, 2nd and 3rd in almost every event - which is not the case.


what makes you so sure? Wales only ended up 4 times higher than Spain. Maybe England would win most of the tournaments, but considering that Spain was the second best european team, you might just be not right.


Wales is 12-4 against Spain in World Series since 2000. Spain have won the last 2 between them, but Wales had won the previous 5. Likewise, Wales is 18-3 against Russia, but Russia usually finish ahead of Wales in the GPS.

You would expect the core 7s teams to finish in at least the Top 4 positions in the GPS. That Wales has not done so is because they have not been sending their best team.

At the moment, a 7s ranking in Europe (with all teams having their best players) might look something like this:

1st tier
England
2nd tier
Scotland, France, Wales, Ireland
3rd tier
Germany, Spain, Russia
4th tier
Italy, Portugal
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Silver Fox » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 12:38

If you are interested in calculating rankings (which I am) - it makes no sense to include the results of England, France and Wales, as they skew the statistics.

I am speechless.
So if results are not what you expect you leave them out.
What's next? Ruling out upsets because the big boys chose to rest first choice players for the next round?
Or when they turn up unmotivated?

If a nation chooses to be weak and loose they should be ranked lower.
At least the official XV's-rankings seem not to do this.
Good for the heads-up not to take your rankings too seriously since it is not based on all results but rather a reflection of your expectations.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 12:43

Well, it's his ranking and he can do whatever he wants. I just wanted to point out that considering this French team France B just because it's France in the European GPS is overestimating their current form.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby mcruic » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 12:45

Silver Fox wrote:
If you are interested in calculating rankings (which I am) - it makes no sense to include the results of England, France and Wales, as they skew the statistics.

I am speechless.
So if results are not what you expect you leave them out.
What's next? Ruling out upsets because the big boys chose to rest first choice players for the next round?
Or when they turn up unmotivated?

If a nation chooses to be weak and loose they should be ranked lower.
At least the official XV's-rankings seem not to do this.
Good for the heads-up not to take your rankings too seriously since it is not based on all results but rather a reflection of your expectations.



I include upsets. But Russia beating England 'B' at Rugby 7s is not an upset. I used to include these matches as England, Wales and France, but it produces unrealistic results.

Would you take a ranking seriously that had England as the Number 6 Rugby 7s playing nation in Europe?

I rank national teams. Not B teams.

I don't follow the protocol of national rugby unions as I am an independent. Therefore, if they consistently play a tournament with a B team, I will call it a B team.

And yes, I call a spade a spade also.
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby mcruic » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 12:47

Armchair Fan wrote:Well, it's his ranking and he can do whatever he wants. I just wanted to point out that considering this French team France B just because it's France in the European GPS is overestimating their current form.


I hadn't checked the squads yet - I would agree this is France, and not France 'B', as there were only 2 changes from the Paris 7s.

But, for every European GPS, this is what it requires - an analysis of the teams (especially England, France and Wales) and a subjective decision on whether this team is the A team (or as close to it as possible) or a B team.

There is the added factor this year that the World Cup is just round the corner - so teams are more likely to select better players for match exposure.

Additionally, there's a difference between squad and actual starting 7. It's possible for a team to take the same squad, but use a completely different starting 7.
Last edited by mcruic on Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 17:43, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Blurandski » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 12:48

The best way to look at 7s rankings is consider how they performed over the past say year. Seeing as Spain finished above Scotland/Wales/France over 10 legs, I'd feel pretty confident in putting them in the same tier as Sco/Wal/Fra.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby mcruic » Tue, 03 Jul 2018, 12:52

Blurandski wrote:The best way to look at 7s rankings is consider how they performed over the past say year. Seeing as Spain finished above Scotland/Wales/France over 10 legs, I'd feel pretty confident in putting them in the same tier as Sco/Wal/Fra.


Possibly, but against those 3 teams, Spain was 4-1-7 in the 12 matches they played. If they keep up this form next year, perhaps then we could put them in the same tier.

It's possible to finish higher in a tournament like this (where all teams do not play all other teams), without necessarily getting better results. Similarly, because South Korea reached the football World Cup semi-final in 2002 - it certainly doesn't mean they were in the Top 4 in the world.
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Canalina » Sat, 07 Jul 2018, 11:32

Decent crowd in Exeter; much better than in Marcoussis, where the stands seemed almost empty in the games I watched

Early results
Ireland-Sweden 43-0
France-Italy 31-12

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Sat, 07 Jul 2018, 14:28

2018-19 Sevens World Series calendar: https://www.planetrugby.com/news/dates- ... ns-series/

The same of 2017-18
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Canalina » Mon, 09 Jul 2018, 08:20

This week there's the World University Championship in Swakopmund, Namibia
No Italy and almost no european teams, unfortunately
This is the simple and nice draw ceremony, showed live on youtube one month ago

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Scoob » Mon, 09 Jul 2018, 08:36

I saw big improvement from Georgia at Exeter 7s . Time together and composure go along way.Georgia got some super impressive young loose forwards in 15s and weather Spanderashvili makes it in 15s or 7s he is a talent regardless.Glimpses of what Irakli Svanidze produced at under 20s a few years ago.I thought he was going to be a real star but hasnt really kicked on as of yet at senior level.Lasha lomidze is going a long way providing he works hard and he looks like he has the work ethic to go further.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby welshdragon2000 » Mon, 09 Jul 2018, 12:39

80,000 tickets sold so far for the sevens World Cup, very good numbers considering this is taking place in a country where rugby isn't so well known

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Canalina » Mon, 09 Jul 2018, 13:29

Euro 7s men+women GP standing

Ireland 72 pts
Russia 62
England 60
France 52
Germany 43
Portugal 34
Wales 34
Italy 31
Spain 22
Georgia 15
Poland 10
Belgium 10
Scotland 6
Sweden 5

I think it would be nice if they created a general (= men+women) ranking; hosting the last round of men's circuit and women's circuit on the same city they could award the men's trophy, the women's trophy and the general trophy in a sort of final fest.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Tobar » Mon, 09 Jul 2018, 17:18

welshdragon2000 wrote:80,000 tickets sold so far for the sevens World Cup, very good numbers considering this is taking place in a country where rugby isn't so well known


I heard 90,000 but that was also from The Guardian that admitted that they heard it was 90,000. I heard 100,000 is the main goal but even that wouldn't make us that much money.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Mon, 09 Jul 2018, 18:36

Canalina wrote:Euro 7s men+women GP standing

Ireland 72 pts
Russia 62
England 60
France 52
Germany 43
Portugal 34
Wales 34
Italy 31
Spain 22
Georgia 15
Poland 10
Belgium 10
Scotland 6
Sweden 5

I think it would be nice if they created a general (= men+women) ranking; hosting the last round of men's circuit and women's circuit on the same city they could award the men's trophy, the women's trophy and the general trophy in a sort of final fest.


Wouldnt it be much more interesting to have just 1 big well promoted European Championship tournament in a stadium in a major city just after the end of Sevens World Series with Sevens World Series environment and full strenght teams + an European Grand Prix series though the season only for teams that dont play the World Series (the second division alternative for European sides, as World Rugby is not providing one) acting as a Hong Kong 7s and European Championship qualifiers (in other words, exclude France, England, Wales and Spain from the Grand Prix and put them only in a Euro Championship tournament)?

The current Grand Prix lacks so much a professional look... it would be comercialy more interesting to have one good tournament... less is more sometimes.


Exemple:

- A Grand Prix with 3 or 4 tournaments (from April to June) and 12 teams: Ireland, Russia, Germany, Italy, Georgia, Portugal, Poland, Sweden, Romania, Belgium, Lithuania + an invited team each round (in the end of the series, the 11th core team is relegated and the 10th might be relegated if an European is relegated from the Sevens World Series and the promoted team isnt't European);

- In July an European Championship tournament, one single tournament, with full-strenght England, France, Wales, Scotland and Spain + 7 best teams of the Grand Prix;
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Tobar » Tue, 10 Jul 2018, 01:26

Tobar wrote:
welshdragon2000 wrote:80,000 tickets sold so far for the sevens World Cup, very good numbers considering this is taking place in a country where rugby isn't so well known


I heard 90,000 but that was also from The Guardian that admitted that they heard it was 90,000. I heard 100,000 is the main goal but even that wouldn't make us that much money.


Ignore that, official Twitter said 80,000

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 10 Jul 2018, 08:48

Euro 7s men+women GP standing

CHESS does same at their Olympics

The winner is given NONA GAPRINDA'SHVILI CUP

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