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Sevens World Series/7's News

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 09:53

I have to side with the players here on this one. 10 stops is in my opinion the ideal number of tournaments per year for sevens. I have no doubt Munich would make for a great event and do a lot rugby rugby in the country, but I think it's going to have to come at the expense of another leg. If I'm a betting man I'd say Singapore is the likely casualty as crowds have dropped since they were awarded the tournament a few years ago.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby JLJordaan » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 13:18

I agree with RugbyLiebe, WR needs to be strategic about it and I think an 11th stop wouldn't necessarily be that bad. I see so many Blitzboks playing Currie Cup or Super Rugby.

Munich is a great option, and I can see the Oktoberfest 7s being a key host in the future. However, I think a South American country needs a stop since every continent, bar Africa, has two tournaments. Rio could be a good event if it is possible to synchronize the sevens with the carnival. Otherwise Buenos Aires is the one to go for.
Personally, I'd like to see a 12 stop circuit, with bigger squads for each team.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby germanbullsfan » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 14:52

Well , what did i mention on this ? As long as the german 7 Side is not qualifing to the WS WR will not take this step (risk for them) to add Munich to the circuit. And the way it looks they never will in the next years to come . So another chance of developing the game in the biggest EU Economy wasted.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 15:32

Forget Rio. No public (it is not a main city in Brazilian rugby and never receives Tupis matches), sevens is not a Brazilian Rugby Union priority and the city has only two suitable stadiums, both for soccer (the olympics rugby stadium wasn't permanent, it was demolished). Carnival is a bad idea too as rugby is not popular in the city and hotels are always full at that time. It would be a nightmare to organize.

Rio must be used by WR to promote Beach Rugby.
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 15:52

RugbyLiebe wrote:World Rugby has called the expansions from 10 stops in the World Sevens Series off two weeks ago. We only know that now, because this week the city of Munich has granted the Oktoberfest 7s tournament 200k each year to make the deficit smaller until Munich has its next chance in 2023.

So the Oktoberfest 7s will be from 2019 again a showcase event, but will move from the 2nd to the 1st weekend of the Oktoberfest (which is always one weekend in october and two weekends in september).

So we have a city council in the richest city of the biggest economy in Europe which is absolutely down to help a virtually unknown sport (which still drew 21k in its first year), but World Rugby messes up again and doesn't give them a spot on the World Series. I am a little bit biased here, but come on, what more are they waiting for? Where is the strategy behind that? How on earth will you create new markets, if you don't even take this golden opportunities? What more should happen? Are they waiting for their lottery ticket to win?

Weird I never thought they were expanding and that they were bidding against the ten other hosts to take a spot away.

victorsra wrote:
Rio must be used by WR to promote Beach Rugby.


Uh...Beach Rugby ain't even a gimmick, it's just a fun sort of vacation thing. Let's not think it's serious now.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby victorsra » Sat, 27 Oct 2018, 17:57

It is a very interesting way to promote rugby. Beach Soccer and Beach Volleyball are big things already. Beach Rugby can be a way to show rugby in places where it is not well developed - and in a public leisure area packed with people! Rio's Beach Rugby in December is a great iniciative.
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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 27 Oct 2018, 18:07

Beach handball works pretty fine too, it even got into the Youth Olympics...

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby NedRugby » Sat, 27 Oct 2018, 21:13

One of the biggest annual events in Dutch rugby is a beach rugby festival. 120 teams.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 28 Oct 2018, 00:05

Russia has appointed Waisale Serevi as 7s Head Coach.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 08:06

thatrugbyguy wrote:I have to side with the players here on this one. 10 stops is in my opinion the ideal number of tournaments per year for sevens.


Based on what? 10 tournaments aren't many if you are a full-pro 7s player. Do you have a source with 7s players complaining that they want to play less 7s? If they play too much, it is definitely not due to those 70 minutes they play on ten weekends a year.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 08:18

TheStroBro wrote:Weird I never thought they were expanding and that they were bidding against the ten other hosts to take a spot away.


"Despite the growth, we won't be able to go to 20 [legs] – we may be able to go to 12. It's a possibility", World Rugby's general manager of competitions,Philippe Bourdarias.


https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... mmvnx.html

It wasn't clear if they would expand the Series. There were definitely talks about it and it wasn't dismissed before the decision. It was still unlikely though tbh.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 09:45, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 09:15

RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:I have to side with the players here on this one. 10 stops is in my opinion the ideal number of tournaments per year for sevens.


Based on what? 10 tournaments aren't many if you are a full-pro 7s player. Do you have a source with 7s players complaining that they want to play less 7s? If they play too much, it is definitely not due to those 70 minutes they play on ten weekends a year.


I personally think they should look toward 12 stops with a tournament held every fortnight as opposed to grouping two together then a break in between to allow for travel.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 13:21

The beauty of the current system is that is all makes sense in terms of timing and geography. Moving to 12 stops means having to rearrange everything. The only solution I can see is if Europe is given the extra two places, one in Munich and somewhere else, at least then you're only adding an additional two weeks to the calendar without the issue of screwing up the geographical spread of the series. So your year would look like this:

Dec - Dubai / Cape Town
Jan - Hamilton / Sydney
Mar - Las Vegas / Vancouver
April - Hong Kong / Singapore
May - Munich / Madrid
June - Paris / Twickenham

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 14:04

RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:I have to side with the players here on this one. 10 stops is in my opinion the ideal number of tournaments per year for sevens.


Based on what? 10 tournaments aren't many if you are a full-pro 7s player. Do you have a source with 7s players complaining that they want to play less 7s? If they play too much, it is definitely not due to those 70 minutes they play on ten weekends a year.

Well, most 7s players on the circuit are barely making enough money to feed themselves, so they probably play too much currently.

NZ7s, AUS7s, and ENG7s are the exception to the rule when it comes to compensation.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 15:02

thatrugbyguy wrote:The beauty of the current system is that is all makes sense in terms of timing and geography. Moving to 12 stops means having to rearrange everything. The only solution I can see is if Europe is given the extra two places, one in Munich and somewhere else, at least then you're only adding an additional two weeks to the calendar without the issue of screwing up the geographical spread of the series. So your year would look like this:

Dec - Dubai / Cape Town
Jan - Hamilton / Sydney
Mar - Las Vegas / Vancouver
April - Hong Kong / Singapore
May - Munich / Madrid
June - Paris / Twickenham


Oktoberfest 7s will probably not be played in May. The name might be a subtle hint. Also May is the month with the finals in all European leagues. Worst month you could have picked from 7 ones remaining tbh.
Who honestly cares about a geographical spread when you already have two tournaments on each continent (you could make a case, that South America could want one tourney as well)?
Europe is the continent with by far the most active 7s teams. 42 nations competed in 2018 in the 4-division-strong official European championship. That's at least double than on any other continent.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 15:37, edited 2 times in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 15:18

Knowing both Munich and Sochi applied, the wisest and simplest move would be to play these tournaments in October while the rest of the schedule remains the same.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 15:58

thatrugbyguy wrote:The beauty of the current system is that is all makes sense in terms of timing and geography. Moving to 12 stops means having to rearrange everything. The only solution I can see is if Europe is given the extra two places, one in Munich and somewhere else, at least then you're only adding an additional two weeks to the calendar without the issue of screwing up the geographical spread of the series. So your year would look like this:

Edited:
Oct - Munich / Madrid(Lisbon/Amersterdam/Rome/where ever)
Dec - Dubai / Cape Town
Jan - Hamilton / Sydney
Mar - Las Vegas / Vancouver
April - Hong Kong / Singapore
June - Paris / Twickenham


Fits in much more nicely with the series imo.

I like the idea of Munich & Amsterdam as twin tournaments.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 15:59

TheStroBro wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:I have to side with the players here on this one. 10 stops is in my opinion the ideal number of tournaments per year for sevens.


Based on what? 10 tournaments aren't many if you are a full-pro 7s player. Do you have a source with 7s players complaining that they want to play less 7s? If they play too much, it is definitely not due to those 70 minutes they play on ten weekends a year.

Well, most 7s players on the circuit are barely making enough money to feed themselves, so they probably play too much currently.

NZ7s, AUS7s, and ENG7s are the exception to the rule when it comes to compensation.


Wrong way round. It means they need to play more to generate more funds. The more you play, the more you cover your fixed costs, the more you can pay people. Especially when you are looking to grow TV contracts.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 16:07

Not really, the idea that they need to play more in rugby is beyond asinine. See the new Premiership schedule. I think feasibly you could make it twelve tournaments to be honest, but none of these event share revenues with the teams competing. Hell, in the US the event isn't owned by the Union and the Union loses money on it every year.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 16:19

TheStroBro wrote:Not really, the idea that they need to play more in rugby is beyond asinine. See the new Premiership schedule. I think feasibly you could make it twelve tournaments to be honest, but none of these event share revenues with the teams competing. Hell, in the US the event isn't owned by the Union and the Union loses money on it every year.


I am interested though why on earth 10 tournaments with a mere 70 minutes of play-time (with 6 games a 14 minutes between 12 players in the squad it is definitely way less for the median and the average player) should be too much?
You could argue that British XVs teams have too many games with 30-40 per season. Fair enough. But 10 tournaments? Seriously? "The player's need to work, too" is not valid as sk88 correctly wrote. The problem is that there are not enough tournaments to support the players so they need to focus on other things apart from 7s.

Don't buy in the only rugby phenomenon that reducing something will miracously create growth. It doesn't work in any aspect of life, especially not in sport.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 16:26

I think that World Series players should be full-time.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby carbonero » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 16:52

RugbyLiebe wrote:The problem is that there are not enough tournaments to support the players so they need to focus on other things apart from 7s.

The core teams don’t get a dime from playing in the 7s series. If you add legs into the circuit, there won’t be any change in compensation for the players.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 19:04

RugbyLiebe wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:Not really, the idea that they need to play more in rugby is beyond asinine. See the new Premiership schedule. I think feasibly you could make it twelve tournaments to be honest, but none of these event share revenues with the teams competing. Hell, in the US the event isn't owned by the Union and the Union loses money on it every year.


I am interested though why on earth 10 tournaments with a mere 70 minutes of play-time (with 6 games a 14 minutes between 12 players in the squad it is definitely way less for the median and the average player) should be too much?
You could argue that British XVs teams have too many games with 30-40 per season. Fair enough. But 10 tournaments? Seriously? "The player's need to work, too" is not valid as sk88 correctly wrote. The problem is that there are not enough tournaments to support the players so they need to focus on other things apart from 7s.

Don't buy in the only rugby phenomenon that reducing something will miracously create growth. It doesn't work in any aspect of life, especially not in sport.


Those aren't the economics of the HSBC 7s Series. The players don't make money directly from the events. Some Unions that own events do give selection bonuses...But Vancouver 7s doesn't pay Wages out to England or Australia.
Last edited by TheStroBro on Wed, 31 Oct 2018, 02:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 19:43

The world series needs better TV deals, to pay all 16 teams 12 players £50k a year you only need £10m. The more tournaments in TV friendly timezones the easier that is going to be.

How World Rugby run it so they can't make everyone a professional baffles me to be honest. The tickets at Twickenham cost £40 or £60 a go and they get 40k at least, most events are reasonably well attended. Why can't they sell the TV rights for what is, effectively, a pittance across all the countries?

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Re: Sevens World Series/7's News

Postby carbonero » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 19:58

You are being overly simplistic. The sevens format is a tough sell for broadcasters. Eight hour blocks on Fridays/Saturdays/Sundays competing against the major sporting leagues in the world. Plus, the irregular schedule with different time zones. This product is condemned to Sky Sports 3 / ESPN 3. You will never get enough cash to fund each team.

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