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Super Rugby expansion

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sun, 17 Jan 2016, 11:11

BTW Tryman Japanese fans on the SW fb page seem to disagree with you about hito communications being a great sponsor with almost every comment saying "dasai" or uncool. I think mainly because this is to them a no name company and they expected one of the big, well-known corporates to be lead sponsor.

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby YamahaKiwi » Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 06:23

Additional coaching staff announced for the Sunwolves -

Filo Tiatia Forwards coach (thought that would be Hammett's role?) and Nathan Mauger backs coach. Even if Hammett hasn't got experience of Japanese rugby at least these two do, particularly Tiatia who played and coached at Toyota Vehicles Verblitz for a long time. He should at least know some Japanese to help communication (again a pity Kosei Ono isn't in the squad - wonder if his Kiwi wife wanting more time with him at home had something to do him not signing). Mauger played at Ricoh.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11576055

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2016/01/393377.html

The end of the Kyodo article also indicates the defense coach will be a Cantabrian.

Kyodo has learned from a number of sources that Hammett and Tiatia will be joined by a coach from Canterbury, New Zealand, to take charge of defense.


BTW Rich Freeman had this tweet about Mark Hammett attending the TL semi in Tokyo last weekend -

Rich Freeman ‏@FreemanrugbyJPN Jan 15
Rich Freeman Retweeted HITO-Com SUNWOLVES
Mark Hammett is in the house. Probably thinking why didn't #Sunwolves pick this player, & that player & that player.


My thoughts exactly!

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby YamahaKiwi » Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 06:26

And just tweeted this

Rich Freeman ‏@FreemanrugbyJPN 2m2 minutes ago
Chance meeting with Hammett in Xmas holidays led to Mauger's appointment. Says a lot about #Sunwolves selection procedure!!


Wonder where he met Tiatia when he asked him to help with the Sunwolves? :lol:

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby tryman » Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 11:37

Eddie Jones met Jonny Wilkinson the other week in a supermarket and now wants to be part of the back room team staff. These things happen.

It's not unusual for backroom coaching staff to be named until after the first team coach is appointed, he will want to pick the men he will work with.

Again I think the success of an Asia team in SR will take time, it certainly won't happen overnight. Next year they should be better prepared, in the short term it would be great if they could get a couple of wins this season.

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby tryman » Thu, 21 Jan 2016, 10:41

YamahaKiwi wrote:BTW Tryman Japanese fans on the SW fb page seem to disagree with you about hito communications being a great sponsor with almost every comment saying "dasai" or uncool. I think mainly because this is to them a no name company and they expected one of the big, well-known corporates to be lead sponsor.



Its being reported on Twitter that Citizen watch company are the latest to sponsor the Sunwolves.
Hope the guys & girls on fb like this sponsor a bit better! Their a good company for the Sunwolves to get.

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby Suiram » Thu, 21 Jan 2016, 10:47

Any news on the training? Any public appearances? Mostly interested in how Andrew Durutalo is doing

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby YamahaKiwi » Fri, 22 Jan 2016, 06:21

tryman wrote:
YamahaKiwi wrote:BTW Tryman Japanese fans on the SW fb page seem to disagree with you about hito communications being a great sponsor with almost every comment saying "dasai" or uncool. I think mainly because this is to them a no name company and they expected one of the big, well-known corporates to be lead sponsor.



Its being reported on Twitter that Citizen watch company are the latest to sponsor the Sunwolves.
Hope the guys & girls on fb like this sponsor a bit better! Their a good company for the Sunwolves to get.


Yeah Citizen is a name company so might go down better with more cred amongst the people. Funny though that again it's not a brand associated with rugby in Japan. Funny how all the sponsors apart from SECOM (ex TL team) aren't ones who have some history at the top level of rugby in Japan.

See you found it on the new English language Japan Rugby Club twitter site run by a guy called Oliver Trenchard who's claiming he's the only place for Japanese rugby news in English. Also claims he got the scoop on Joseph. Both wrong. What an arrogant little twat! I was reading Rich Freeman's rugby articles in the Japan Times almost 20 years ago!

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby tryman » Fri, 22 Jan 2016, 06:36

That's interesting alright. I think the existing sponsors are happy with their lot i.e Japan team or Top League. So the Sunwolves have to find new sponsors from somewhere and given rugby has risen in popularity they are finding them.

I see season tickets go on general sale today. Will be interesting to see how they go...

Yes I spotted the news on this Twitter. Funny how so many new Japan Twitter pages have popped up since the World Cup, certainly the buzz sport at the moment. Still Rich is the best for the news.

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby YamahaKiwi » Fri, 22 Jan 2016, 06:36

Suiram wrote:Any news on the training? Any public appearances? Mostly interested in how Andrew Durutalo is doing


I think I posted it before but the team will first get together after the TL final this Sunday. Then after the All Japan Championship game Toshiba/Panasonic winner v Teikyo University on the 31st training will begin in earnest with a warm up game v TL XV at Toyota Stadium on Feb 13th. that's the only warm up game announced so far. It's be nice to a see 2nd one on 20th but if that was so I think it would've been announced by now so maybe an intra-squad scrimmage that weekend. The team doesn't have a home training ground this season. instaed they will use Toshiba, Suntory, and I think Canon's grounds.

Big day tomorrow. General sales for tickets to the opening Sunwolves SR game v Lions go on sale.

BTW, the Sunwolves website FINALLY has all the sponsors and suppliers listed on it. Only took a month after they were originally announced!

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby YamahaKiwi » Fri, 22 Jan 2016, 06:40

tryman wrote:That's interesting alright. I think the existing sponsors are happy with their lot i.e Japan team or Top League. So the Sunwolves have to find new sponsors from somewhere and given rugby has risen in popularity they are finding them.

I see season tickets go on general sale today. Will be interesting to see how they go...

Yes I spotted the news on this Twitter. Funny how so many new Japan Twitter pages have popped up since the World Cup, certainly the buzz sport at the moment. Still Rich is the best for the news.


Damn you beat me to the general sales tickets news!... great minds think alike :)

Yeah, despite the amateurism of the rugby admin at least Japanese rugby is now finding it easier to get sponsors...and also compared to 10-15 years ago, keep them. The union has a core group of sponsors that have stuck with them for about 7-8 years now. The last couple of years have seen Mistubishi-Sumitomo bank come onboard who are sponsoring both the mens XV NT and the Sunwolves, and Japan Airlines (As an airline worker I keep hoping JAL, though I prefer ANA cos it's an alliance partner with my airline, will get serious about its rugby team and make a bigger investment in its team in Top East league and make it to the TL. It would be cool to have an airline team in the TL - would even have to think about switching my allegiance from Yamaha!).

Competition's no bad thing and Rich doesn't have a divine right to be the end all of Japanese rugby news in the English language but I find it distasteful when some new guy comes along and makes arrogant claims. He was probably in diapers when Freeman started writing in the English language Japanese newspapers! Doesn't exactly make me warm to the guy! A little respect goes a long way.

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 22 Jan 2016, 09:27

YamahaKiwi wrote:
Damn you beat me to the general sales tickets news!... great minds think alike :)

Yeah, despite the amateurism of the rugby admin at least Japanese rugby is now finding it easier to get sponsors...and also compared to 10-15 years ago, keep them. The union has a core group of sponsors that have stuck with them for about 7-8 years now. The last couple of years have seen Mistubishi-Sumitomo bank come onboard who are sponsoring both the mens XV NT and the Sunwolves, and Japan Airlines (As an airline worker I keep hoping JAL, though I prefer ANA cos it's an alliance partner with my airline, will get serious about its rugby team and make a bigger investment in its team in Top East league and make it to the TL. It would be cool to have an airline team in the TL - would even have to think about switching my allegiance from Yamaha!).

Competition's no bad thing and Rich doesn't have a divine right to be the end all of Japanese rugby news in the English language but I find it distasteful when some new guy comes along and makes arrogant claims. He was probably in diapers when Freeman started writing in the English language Japanese newspapers! Doesn't exactly make me warm to the guy! A little respect goes a long way.


Maybe I'm naive about this, but doesn't all of this sound like a success? New sponsors, that are also new to rugby. Reasonable priced tickets for Japanese standards. And to be honest as a Japanese, I wouldn't care less, what some English newspaper directed to Expats and probably next to no Japanese reads at all, writes about the project.

All I would think about at the moment is: how fast will we outsell the stadium with the number of the combined population of Australia and New Zealand having watched a single world cup game in 2015 on tv (maybe have some thoughts what's the most honorable way to kill myself, if I won't outsell the stadium :D ).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby YamahaKiwi » Fri, 22 Jan 2016, 12:55

RugbyLiebe wrote:And to be honest as a Japanese, I wouldn't care less, what some English newspaper directed to Expats and probably next to no Japanese reads at all, writes about the project.


And what about when the Japanese press writes about the unprofessional way the team has been organised as I have posted about this week? And what about the biggest sports magazine in Japan, Sports Graphic Number, who is featuring rugby for their whole first 2016 issue including "Super rugby crisis" as one of those feature stories amongst others? That is the only negative article of about ten by seasoned Japanese rugby journos and quite clearly shows what area/ team they are most concerned about. Or about an experienced national team player like Kensuke Hatakeyama publicly criticizing the JRFU for the way it's handled the set up of the team, not to mention the national team's biggest stars have pretty much all opted for overseas SR teams or Bath in the case of Mafi?

I certainly will support the team and hope it does ok but even if it does that, like the 2015RWC results will be entirely down to the coach and players and DESPITE the admin, not because of it. You do realise the whole reason Eddie Jones left Japan was because he was so frustrated with dealing with such a crap organisation like the JRFU, don't you? There's an article today in Sankei Sports about how on a visit to Bayern Munich Jones poured his heart out to Pep Guardiola over how much grief he'd had with coaching the Japanese team and how the heck was he going to conjure a plan to beat South Africa. You do understand that the RWC success was down to a coach and his staff and a bunch of players who bought into his methods and worked extremely hard, and not due to fantastic support from a professional, efficient admin and a great rugby system. Undoubtedly there's been progress in Japan and that's great. But I can tell you if there was a much better admin and system it could be double the popularity and strength it is. That progress is largely down to individuals who have worked hard to improve rugby in Japan in spite of and in the face of the obstacles of an incompetent organisation and poor system. I don't know about you, but if I was a high level coach of a team in any sport I would much rather be dealing with an onto it organisation that I can have confidence in. I'd suggest Eddie Jones would still be around in Japan with the Sunwolves like he originally was supposed to be, if he felt that way about the JSRA and JRFU.

Yeah there's progress, and yeah there's a team with coach and 30 odd players contracted etc etc but the higldy-piigledy way that it and other things are/have been done comes across as very adhoc and not well planned and therefore doesn't inspire confidence that even when on a high, the sport can remain in that position permanently. Hence you get guys like Fumiaki Tanaka publicly berating the union after the 2nd round of the TL regular season - and that wasn't aimed at English-speaking expats! Probably the question I've seen raised the most times in the Japanese media post RWC is can the JRFU show enough leadership and vision etc to keep rugby on a high?

I can tell you that's the question occupying the minds of Japanese fans, media and players. Hope none of them commit hara-kiri over it though!

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby YamahaKiwi » Fri, 22 Jan 2016, 23:32

As I posted the SW will have one warm up game that we know of. Does anyone know what the Jags and Kings are doing for for warm up games?


And on the totally off-topic subject of Ollie Trenchard aka Japan Rugby Club twitter account practitioner, looked through his personal twitter account last night and what do you know, not a single rugby tweet until the RWC last year (Not a crime at all - lovely to see people get into rugby through a big event like the RWC). Before that all Japanese and Euro football only. I smells me an opportunist. You know the kind that sees something is trendy and hip and then has an idea they could make something off that. Yeah, that type. The kind of ones you see trying to hang out with and ingratiate themselves with famous people and be part of the scene and attending the big events and dos even though they ain't done crap. And he's been in Japan for three years. Not bad but not even close to how long Freeman has covered rugby there, and immediately starts acting like he's the man. Like I said before, what an arrogant little prat!

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby Buffalo » Sat, 23 Jan 2016, 00:21

http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2016/01/22/6486/

Los Jaguares’ Super Rugby debut is to come on February 26 in Bloemfontein against the Cheetahs. The team is to fly to South Africa two weeks in advance to play warm-up matches against the Lions and Stormers.


No idea what the Kings are doing. I did a quick google search and found nothing but I didn't look very hard.

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby RugbyLiebe » Sat, 23 Jan 2016, 00:29

Thank you YamahaKiwi for taking the time to write the long and really interesting reply. I really do enjoy to read many of your posts.

For an outsider to Japanese rugby the critical tone doesn't sometimes compare to what was achieved in the RWC, starting in SuperRugby and by gaining the rights to host RWC 19.
But you made some really good points.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sat, 23 Jan 2016, 04:22

yeah sorry Liebe. It's just if you've been there and played and coached you'd know exactly how frustrating it can be there and how good it could be. Man if that union was onto it and they had a better system they could be really serious contenders at the top end and the sport could really be one of the major ones in the country. So when you know how good it could be but isn't because the game is being held back by the incompetence of the very people that should be making it go fantastically it is very easy to be critical.

But yes we should be thankful for the progression made. And yeah Rich Freeman has written a lot about the shortcomings of the JRFU and rugby sytems in Japan the last twenty years and more. And I've seen a lot of what he's written about for myself. The JRFU is probably really happy he is not writing in the Japanese language newspapers! I can see that coming from a non rugby powerhouse like Germany comparatively everything would seem like roses in Japan and granted it's better than quite a lot of other countries whereas myself coming from NZ I have experience of a high-calibre , successful rugby system so know how it can be. :)

Honestly if the JFA had run Japanese rugby for the last 20 odd years I would put money on rugby being doubly popular with twice as many school programmes (and popular ones at that) as now and probably with better national team RWC results before 2015. Some people may say the Japanese football team hasn't performed at FIFA WCs and there's some truth to it, especially 2014, but if you see that Japan had never even qualified for a FIFA WC before 1998 and has qualified for ever single one since and had many more top results against strong opposition than the rugby team has, then you can see what the JFA has done compares extremely favourably against the administration of rugby in the same period. infact given that rugby was an equal footing with football/soccer in the 70s and 80s it's an interesting comparison to make how the two sports have done in the last thirty years. The biggest thing is the JFA showed a degree of vision and understanding of the changing Japanese society in basing their J League on clubs not corporate teams and the rest is history. The JRFU has sadly never displayed that kind of vision and is still wedded to its corporate partners which in turn guarantees a limit to the appeal the league is ever going to have.

On the point of senior and junior high school rugby programmes it'll be interesting to see if the RWC success and 2019 hosting translates to more schools opening up to the game, particularly in non-rugby areas like where I lived (RWC host prefecture Shizuoka, and Shiga) that both have about 13 senior high schools out of 115+ at the moment. I'm certainly hoping that in a RWC host area like Shizuoka a good deal more schools start teams but I'm aware of push-back from principals and local education authorities in this very pro soccer prefecture. As far as I know only one new school in Shizuoka, the first in about 12-13 years, has announced it will start a rugby team since the RWC venues for 2019 were decided. Even in Yamaha's home town Iwata, none of the senior high schools have started a team to despite having a domestically top class team in their midst.

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby tryman » Sat, 23 Jan 2016, 06:52

Will be interesting to see how the Sunwolves season tickets go today, I've checked FB & Twitter but no news yet.

It could end up that the SWs get a much larger support than the Argentinian side who I think will struggle to get 10,000 to each game. Really hope I'm wrong.

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Re: Super Rugby, the 18th franchise

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sat, 23 Jan 2016, 08:31

I hope the jags get good support as Argentinian fans should have plenty of confidence in supporting their team. I've heard comments too that they expect 10K and I must admit I was a bit surprised and their season ticket launch like the Sunwolves one went very well.

I think there'll be a big crowd at least for the first couple of games for the SWs. Just looked on Japanese ticketing websites and all the mid-upper to lower categories still available for the first game. The top three categories all got sold out in the first phase of ticketing opened to JRFU fan club members. If things go badly interest could drop off pretty quick. A competitive start, hey even a win, would go down well!

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby 4N » Wed, 27 Jun 2018, 19:03

Reviving an old thread... Super Rugby could expand into new territory. Looking at a PI team based in Suva maybe, that would also play matches in places like Auckland and US.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby victorsra » Wed, 27 Jun 2018, 19:37

Why they would risk expansion just after contract and while risked o losing the SAs. Super Rugby is only losing money.
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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Tobar » Wed, 27 Jun 2018, 21:07

Because it's the PIs and they figure that will get some more interest from abroad? They're pretty close so figure there's a way to make more money from here considering how close they are and how much they love rugby.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Tobar » Wed, 27 Jun 2018, 21:20

Here are some quotes that shows their logic:

One of SANZAAR's key drivers is to grow viewership and that can be achieved by expanding into emerging markets such as the United States.

The report suggest the large expat Pacific communities in America could help achieve this and says the majority of those Fijian, Tongan and Samoan's are dedicated rugby fans and likely to support the team.

It suggests the Pasifika team be based in Suva, but says it's essential one home game is sold to a non-Pacific host such as Auckland, the West Coast of the US, to gain the support of the large expat communities in America, Australia and New Zealand.


It looks like they want to host 1 home game in the US each year and use that to help break into the US market. So it wouldn't be a US based SR team but a team that just happens to play a game over here (and thus put on more national broadcast than ESPN+). If it's just 1 game a year that could be a fun way to see some great rugby in the states and even help build up support for MLR. Idk how successful that would be right off the bat though but Avaya Stadium in NorCal would be a good choice or hell, put it in Utah.

While financial details have been removed the report does say $2 million could be generated from tickets sales with a home venue in Suva.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby victorsra » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 05:15

I just don't see Super Rugby as a league ready to do anything. It has an unsustainable model that doesn't look nothing near healthy now.
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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Sables4EVA » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 07:19

I think it needs a total rethink and restructure.

I think they should look at a successful club competition such as the European cups or even the domestic NZ one and work from those models rather than try new, complicated formats that require PHDs to understand or where you get teams qualifying for the knock out stages who do not deserve it.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 09:03

Sables4EVA wrote:I think it needs a total rethink and restructure.

I think they should look at a successful club competition such as the European cups or even the domestic NZ one and work from those models rather than try new, complicated formats that require PHDs to understand or where you get teams qualifying for the knock out stages who do not deserve it.


Part of the reason I wouldn't mind SA heading north. Then we could have a Asia-Pacific Super 12 competition in it's place. Much more logical. Two conferences of 6 teams. The Aus 4 plus the Sunwolves and a Fijian squad in one. And the NZ five plus the Jaguares. Home and away within your own conference for 10 games and then another 6 games against of the teams in the other conference for 16 games in total. One united table with a top 6 finals system. Simple.

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