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Super Rugby expansion

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 17:21

I don't know about expansion or putting a team in Hawai'i, but the Super Rugby match in LA is going to happen. And it will probably be a regular occurrence.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Tobar » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 18:07

Just gotta make sure they buy those plane tickets in advance

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby 4N » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 18:18

TheStroBro wrote:I don't know about expansion or putting a team in Hawai'i, but the Super Rugby match in LA is going to happen. And it will probably be a regular occurrence.


Two things:

It needs to be NZ teams. Having South African teams play on the west coast makes little sense.

They shouldn't always play in LA, move it around. San Jose, Seattle, even Vegas, would be great.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Tobar » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 19:37

There are plenty of PIs based in NorCal making it a decent option. If they can manage to get NZ teams that’d be great. If SR is serious about expanding into the US market and wants this PI team to play a game here then they should definitely push for the best teams to come over. Lots of people were bummed that it was going to be a preseason game. Personally I don’t care too much, you have to give some concessions when bringing over the game for the first time. They’re still out there playing some good rugby.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 21:17

4N wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:I don't know about expansion or putting a team in Hawai'i, but the Super Rugby match in LA is going to happen. And it will probably be a regular occurrence.


Two things:

It needs to be NZ teams. Having South African teams play on the west coast makes little sense.

They shouldn't always play in LA, move it around. San Jose, Seattle, even Vegas, would be great.


AEG is building a content Calendar around making StubHub Synonymous with Rugby. They host Rugby 7s in the 2028 Olympics.

I would hazard that it should be a South African side vs. a NZ side. Take advantage of the largest South African expat community which is SD County. PI's aren't just synonymous with the Bay. There are many Islander communities in SoCal.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby 4N » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 21:23

AEG is building a content Calendar around making StubHub Synonymous with Rugby. They host Rugby 7s in the 2028 Olympics.


Got it. That makes sense.

Yeah I know there are lots of Samoans in particular around LA. Not a knock on the place their crowds just haven't been great in the past.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Tobar » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 21:50

LA is notorious for iffy crowds. It’s still a big city with potential for good outcome.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 22:04

4N wrote:
AEG is building a content Calendar around making StubHub Synonymous with Rugby. They host Rugby 7s in the 2028 Olympics.


Got it. That makes sense.

Yeah I know there are lots of Samoans in particular around LA. Not a knock on the place their crowds just haven't been great in the past.

LA and SD are markets where you have to sell the product to people (my parents live in LA, had no clue except for that I had told them I was driving in). There's so much to do. I was at the LA match against Arg XV. Yeah, we got 6k in a 28k stadium...but there was less than 2 at both Fullerton and Sacramento. All three had no marketing. Boots on the ground approach of just let the locals mobilize makes no sense when there's less than 120k active members in the Union.

Also, we can't say crowds in LA are iffy when the last time there was a Test there it was in the 1970s. And the last time there was a major Rugby event was in 2006. What do you expect from a market that you haven't been to in 12 years? Also, that Test against Australia in the 1970s sold out the venue at 5k. So with no investment we basically hit the status quo. The last time the US had a test in Denver they sold out Infinity Park in 2012 against Georgia...why did they leave the market?

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby eal22 » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 23:19

LA is an iffy city for most sporting crowds, the distances one has to travel are vast by European standards. The only teams that regularly draw good crowds are the Lakers (NBA) and the college football teams of USC and UCLA. Even the NFL Rams and Chargers struggle for consistently good crowds.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 00:40

Tobar wrote:There are plenty of PIs based in NorCal making it a decent option. If they can manage to get NZ teams that’d be great. If SR is serious about expanding into the US market and wants this PI team to play a game here then they should definitely push for the best teams to come over. Lots of people were bummed that it was going to be a preseason game. Personally I don’t care too much, you have to give some concessions when bringing over the game for the first time. They’re still out there playing some good rugby.


I personally think that if SR wants to build it's brand in NA they should be looking to do as the big European soccer clubs do and play a series of games against local competition. Both SR and the MLR are going to be running during the same window so there is an opportunity for it. Either in the pre or post seasons.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Sables4EVA » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 06:19

Isn't there a big rugby community in Florida too?

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby 4N » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 13:44

Sables4EVA wrote:Isn't there a big rugby community in Florida too?


There are good youth rugby setups in a few cities but it has lots of room to grow. Florida has some of the best athletes in the US, guys like Perry Baker and Cam Dolan are from there not to mention some of the NFL's best.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Coloradoan » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 14:21

TheStroBro wrote:
4N wrote:
AEG is building a content Calendar around making StubHub Synonymous with Rugby. They host Rugby 7s in the 2028 Olympics.


Got it. That makes sense.

Yeah I know there are lots of Samoans in particular around LA. Not a knock on the place their crowds just haven't been great in the past.

LA and SD are markets where you have to sell the product to people (my parents live in LA, had no clue except for that I had told them I was driving in). There's so much to do. I was at the LA match against Arg XV. Yeah, we got 6k in a 28k stadium...but there was less than 2 at both Fullerton and Sacramento. All three had no marketing. Boots on the ground approach of just let the locals mobilize makes no sense when there's less than 120k active members in the Union.

Also, we can't say crowds in LA are iffy when the last time there was a Test there it was in the 1970s. And the last time there was a major Rugby event was in 2006. What do you expect from a market that you haven't been to in 12 years? Also, that Test against Australia in the 1970s sold out the venue at 5k. So with no investment we basically hit the status quo. The last time the US had a test in Denver they sold out Infinity Park in 2012 against Georgia...why did they leave the market?


Last time a test was in LA was in the 70s? USA played Japan in LA in 2014. The attendance was putrid.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Thomas » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 14:25

If memory serves me right and showing my age, I seem to remember the Wallabies played in the late 80's early 90's in LA or greater LA of all places on their way Europe. It was one of the very few tours they travelled via the USA

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 15:04

Coloradoan wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
4N wrote:
AEG is building a content Calendar around making StubHub Synonymous with Rugby. They host Rugby 7s in the 2028 Olympics.


Got it. That makes sense.

Yeah I know there are lots of Samoans in particular around LA. Not a knock on the place their crowds just haven't been great in the past.

LA and SD are markets where you have to sell the product to people (my parents live in LA, had no clue except for that I had told them I was driving in). There's so much to do. I was at the LA match against Arg XV. Yeah, we got 6k in a 28k stadium...but there was less than 2 at both Fullerton and Sacramento. All three had no marketing. Boots on the ground approach of just let the locals mobilize makes no sense when there's less than 120k active members in the Union.

Also, we can't say crowds in LA are iffy when the last time there was a Test there it was in the 1970s. And the last time there was a major Rugby event was in 2006. What do you expect from a market that you haven't been to in 12 years? Also, that Test against Australia in the 1970s sold out the venue at 5k. So with no investment we basically hit the status quo. The last time the US had a test in Denver they sold out Infinity Park in 2012 against Georgia...why did they leave the market?


Last time a test was in LA was in the 70s? USA played Japan in LA in 2014. The attendance was putrid.


5100...didn't see that one when I was looking through the records. Point stands, you can't go back to a place and expect good attendance when you haven't been there in 10 years for an event. Or 30 years for a major test. Boots on the ground did nothing for Dicks, nothing for Kennesaw...why, because your membership were the only ones that knew about it. Looks like we also played Japan in Torrance in 86 drawing 5000. So we basically haven't done anything to affect market conditions to get better. Don't expect good attendance if you don't have a marketing strategy.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Tobar » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 17:55

Yeah, marketing is key. LA isn’t known for the best crowds outside of 2 sports team but you have to actually market the game to non-rugby fans to get them to come. LA is spread out and traffic is horrible. Throw in the fact that LA has so many distractions and it makes it more difficult. LA has great potential but you have to work at it to get them out.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Thomas » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 18:40

I found details of the Wallabies v USA it was on the 2nd of October 1993 at the Riverside in California,

It was never awarded Test Status by Australia but it was by the USA the following Caps were awarded that day
Rob Randell
Mark Scharrenberg
Ed Schram
Richard Tardits
Steve Hiatt

The result was 22 - 26 to Australia which was in effect a full strength test side. I know Australia were behind at Half time and came back and won the match. For October I remember it was a very hot day.

What is the attendance of Riverside?

I was in the USA on Holiday at the time and watch it on TV (Can't remember if it was local cable)

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 19:21

Thomas wrote:I found details of the Wallabies v USA it was on the 2nd of October 1993 at the Riverside in California,

It was never awarded Test Status by Australia but it was by the USA the following Caps were awarded that day
Rob Randell
Mark Scharrenberg
Ed Schram
Richard Tardits
Steve Hiatt

The result was 22 - 26 to Australia which was in effect a full strength test side. I know Australia were behind at Half time and came back and won the match. For October I remember it was a very hot day.

What is the attendance of Riverside?

I was in the USA on Holiday at the time and watch it on TV (Can't remember if it was local cable)

For the most part the best database is ESPN and it's incomplete when it comes to Attendance figures.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Coloradoan » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 20:01

TheStroBro wrote:
Coloradoan wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
4N wrote:
AEG is building a content Calendar around making StubHub Synonymous with Rugby. They host Rugby 7s in the 2028 Olympics.


Got it. That makes sense.

Yeah I know there are lots of Samoans in particular around LA. Not a knock on the place their crowds just haven't been great in the past.

LA and SD are markets where you have to sell the product to people (my parents live in LA, had no clue except for that I had told them I was driving in). There's so much to do. I was at the LA match against Arg XV. Yeah, we got 6k in a 28k stadium...but there was less than 2 at both Fullerton and Sacramento. All three had no marketing. Boots on the ground approach of just let the locals mobilize makes no sense when there's less than 120k active members in the Union.

Also, we can't say crowds in LA are iffy when the last time there was a Test there it was in the 1970s. And the last time there was a major Rugby event was in 2006. What do you expect from a market that you haven't been to in 12 years? Also, that Test against Australia in the 1970s sold out the venue at 5k. So with no investment we basically hit the status quo. The last time the US had a test in Denver they sold out Infinity Park in 2012 against Georgia...why did they leave the market?


Last time a test was in LA was in the 70s? USA played Japan in LA in 2014. The attendance was putrid.


5100...didn't see that one when I was looking through the records. Point stands, you can't go back to a place and expect good attendance when you haven't been there in 10 years for an event. Or 30 years for a major test. Boots on the ground did nothing for Dicks, nothing for Kennesaw...why, because your membership were the only ones that knew about it. Looks like we also played Japan in Torrance in 86 drawing 5000. So we basically haven't done anything to affect market conditions to get better. Don't expect good attendance if you don't have a marketing strategy.


5100 is pretty generous based on my recollection. But whatever, we agree that it's not a good crowd. For the rest, that's mostly BS. Houston didn't host a test match from 2001 until 2012 and pulled in 17k for Italy after that 11 year absence. Yes, marketing matters but so does the market. And LA is a very tough (read: bad) sports market. When the 7s moved to San Diego, the attendance immediately doubled. Of course LA has also managed to lose 2 NFL teams in my lifetime due to poor attendance and the NFL's return to LA is also struggling.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 22:05

Coloradoan wrote:
5100 is pretty generous based on my recollection. But whatever, we agree that it's not a good crowd. For the rest, that's mostly BS. Houston didn't host a test match from 2001 until 2012 and pulled in 17k for Italy after that 11 year absence. Yes, marketing matters but so does the market. And LA is a very tough (read: bad) sports market. When the 7s moved to San Diego, the attendance immediately doubled. Of course LA has also managed to lose 2 NFL teams in my lifetime due to poor attendance and the NFL's return to LA is also struggling.


So, do we just go back to hosting matches at Saranac Lake where no one can get to? It's not BS. You have to do real marketing since most of these are basically one offs. But as I've said, 5 Markets, 5 years.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Coloradoan » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 22:11

TheStroBro wrote:
Coloradoan wrote:
5100 is pretty generous based on my recollection. But whatever, we agree that it's not a good crowd. For the rest, that's mostly BS. Houston didn't host a test match from 2001 until 2012 and pulled in 17k for Italy after that 11 year absence. Yes, marketing matters but so does the market. And LA is a very tough (read: bad) sports market. When the 7s moved to San Diego, the attendance immediately doubled. Of course LA has also managed to lose 2 NFL teams in my lifetime due to poor attendance and the NFL's return to LA is also struggling.


So, do we just go back to hosting matches at Saranac Lake where no one can get to? It's not BS. You have to do real marketing since most of these are basically one offs. But as I've said, 5 Markets, 5 years.


That's an oddly defensive response. We've had successful tests in Houston repeatedly. The Northeast has been pretty successful, too. LA has not. Of course USA Rugby has done a relatively poor job with marketing and promotion, but that doesn't mean you just ignore the market, either. LA is a bad sports market and has repeatedly had poor attendances for rugby, no matter what excuses you make for it.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Blurandski » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 22:26

TheStroBro wrote:
Coloradoan wrote:
5100 is pretty generous based on my recollection. But whatever, we agree that it's not a good crowd. For the rest, that's mostly BS. Houston didn't host a test match from 2001 until 2012 and pulled in 17k for Italy after that 11 year absence. Yes, marketing matters but so does the market. And LA is a very tough (read: bad) sports market. When the 7s moved to San Diego, the attendance immediately doubled. Of course LA has also managed to lose 2 NFL teams in my lifetime due to poor attendance and the NFL's return to LA is also struggling.


So, do we just go back to hosting matches at Saranac Lake where no one can get to? It's not BS. You have to do real marketing since most of these are basically one offs. But as I've said, 5 Markets, 5 years.


Yup, give one match to each market per year for five years, at a similar date, then review, cut any unsatisfactory markets (crowds not rising, stadium now to small etc), rinse and repeat.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 30 Jun 2018, 03:30

Coloradoan wrote:
That's an oddly defensive response. We've had successful tests in Houston repeatedly. The Northeast has been pretty successful, too. LA has not. Of course USA Rugby has done a relatively poor job with marketing and promotion, but that doesn't mean you just ignore the market, either. LA is a bad sports market and has repeatedly had poor attendances for rugby, no matter what excuses you make for it.

Because none of those attendance lines is poor when you're doing nothing to sell the product. Rugby doesn't sell itself and we should stop acting like it. Houston got 11k this time, 4 years ago they almost sold out...what I do know is the marketing budget was pretty minimal. But honestly, should things work out well...MLR will do all the selling of the Rugby and we'll play tests at MLR facilities and we'll sell out over time.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Sables4EVA » Sat, 30 Jun 2018, 05:34

4N wrote:
Sables4EVA wrote:Isn't there a big rugby community in Florida too?


There are good youth rugby setups in a few cities but it has lots of room to grow. Florida has some of the best athletes in the US, guys like Perry Baker and Cam Dolan are from there not to mention some of the NFL's best.


Would think its immigrant population would have a passing interest in the game too.

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Re: Super Rugby expansion

Postby Coloradoan » Sat, 30 Jun 2018, 07:48

TheStroBro wrote:
Coloradoan wrote:
That's an oddly defensive response. We've had successful tests in Houston repeatedly. The Northeast has been pretty successful, too. LA has not. Of course USA Rugby has done a relatively poor job with marketing and promotion, but that doesn't mean you just ignore the market, either. LA is a bad sports market and has repeatedly had poor attendances for rugby, no matter what excuses you make for it.

Because none of those attendance lines is poor when you're doing nothing to sell the product. Rugby doesn't sell itself and we should stop acting like it. Houston got 11k this time, 4 years ago they almost sold out...what I do know is the marketing budget was pretty minimal. But honestly, should things work out well...MLR will do all the selling of the Rugby and we'll play tests at MLR facilities and we'll sell out over time.


Yes, they are poor. When the attendance doubles overnight by moving an event to a different market, that is a good sign the previous market was not good. I attended the 7s in LA from the beginning and the switch to SD was night and day. Maybe you should stop and listen for once from people who have actually been around the game for longer than a couple years instead of relying on Google searches.

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