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Rugby in the Netherlands

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Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby iul » Thu, 01 May 2014, 18:26

@Silver Fox or NedRugby, can you please do THIS for the Netherlands?

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby Silver Fox » Thu, 01 May 2014, 21:17

Nope, not in one chunk anyway.
But since I feel that some here think I am knowledgeable on Dutch Rugby (well, maybe I am, after all in the land of the blind One-eye is king) I will step up a bit in bringing news even if I might not find it all that relevant to international rugby.

Talking about relevance; if a pathway into TQT were to become possible for Dutch teams, either directly, or via the North Sea Cup, that would mean a lot of things in the domestic scene would gain in relevance internationally. That is what excites me.

I'll print your list of 57 and pin it over my desk as a reminder though.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby getienne » Fri, 02 May 2014, 12:59

Somebody from Netherlands can help me ?
I am looking for the first name of former Netherlands rugby players who have scored tries for the national team: M Chaudron, G Scheerman, P Schrijver and J Verhoog.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby 4N » Sun, 18 May 2014, 17:54

Young Dutchman Zeno Kieft started at flanker for La Rochelle in their Pro D2 semifinal win over Pau today. Next week they face Agen in the final for promotion to Top 14.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby NedRugby » Sun, 18 May 2014, 20:33

getienne wrote:Somebody from Netherlands can help me ?
I am looking for the first name of former Netherlands rugby players who have scored tries for the national team: M Chaudron, G Scheerman, P Schrijver and J Verhoog.


Sorry Getienne, i dont know.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby 4N » Sun, 25 May 2014, 19:24

Kieft again started in the 7 jersey, playing 73 minutes. La Rochelle won and will play Top 14 next year.

Is he capped by Holland? They don't want another Tim Visser on their hands.

olivier

Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby olivier » Mon, 26 May 2014, 08:26

4N wrote:Kieft again started in the 7 jersey, playing 73 minutes. La Rochelle won and will play Top 14 next year.

Is he capped by Holland? They don't want another Tim Visser on their hands.

France do this only with Belgians...

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby NedRugby » Mon, 26 May 2014, 21:52

Well he missed the match against Germany due to injury. Mind you I lost count of how may times Ryan Giggs was "injured" and couldn't play for Wales but was running around like a teenager for Manchester the followig weekend. But that is soccer. Rugby clubs would not be so cynical.
Yes he has played already for Holland, so no Tim Visser problem. Like Visser he has also rugby playing brothers.

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1021/Meer-sport/ ... laag.dhtml

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby Sables4EVA » Thu, 23 Oct 2014, 14:14

Has there been any news on the North Sea Cup this year. Has it changed to the Benecup or something similar? Which teams are involved this year?

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby Silver Fox » Thu, 23 Oct 2014, 17:39

This what I wrote on Oct. 4th on another thread:
There are no top division matches today in the Netherlands because today was scheduled for the first North Sea Cup round.
Both Dutch regional sides were to play their away game against Belgian opponents. However there is not a shred of news about it anywhere.
I think we can safely assume that this years edition has been abandoned. For the reasons we can only speculate, but it is no secret that the appetite for it, especially among the German clubs, was not that great.
So far, no extra news.
I could write to the Dutch Union and ask for an update.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 24 Oct 2014, 01:38

Weren't the Dutch playing in the ENC a few years back?

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby Sables4EVA » Fri, 24 Oct 2014, 05:20

What a pity if it has been abandoned, though I do see how it is a bit pointless with German teams dominating, even after the Netherlands used regional teams last season.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby Silver Fox » Fri, 24 Oct 2014, 07:54

thatrugbyguy wrote:Weren't the Dutch playing in the ENC a few years back?

That was as far back as the 2001/2002 season.

This was in the wake of their efforts to qualify for the 1999 World Cup.
By the end of the amateur era their level seemed to be in reach with for example Italy.
Awareness of developments elsewhere in the world has never been one of their strong points so they figured they stood a chance by involving and paying overseas players to close the gap.
This resulted in their best rankings and results ever.
They were faced however with massive defeats by England (110-0) and Italy (67-7) and a disapointing repechage first round against South Korea (31-30 home and 14-78 away).
Apart from the realisation that the rest of the world had entered the profesional era they were rewarded for their efforts with near bankrupcy.
Main casualties were the national selections. Youth programmes were cancelled and expenses on the national team were cut to a bare minimum.
So for example, if (overseas) players wanted to play for the national team they had to cover the travel expenses themselves.
It all resulted in a drop from 24th in the world to around 50th place in the second half of the next decade. Considering potential, players numbers and history well below what should be expected, but ambitions, possibilities and therefor pride were minimal.
(No wonder someone like Tim Visser focussed his ambitions elsewhere)

The realisation has come at last that sustainable results have to come from the bottom up but it would be atypical for the Dutch if they wouldn't keep their hands on their wallets.
So nothing spectacular was or is to be expected. A lot of focus now (talking about the last couple of years) lies with developing grassroots rugby.
The current high performance program is based on the established youth academies which have been delivering young talents for a couple of years now.
The main change this has brought is an ambition and a believe among the young players to aim and live for a higher and more professional level.
This was completely absent no more than 3 years ago.

I know it is against the odds at the moment but there is a possibility to see them back in the ENC not so long from now.
(one has to remain optimistic)

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby NedRugby » Fri, 24 Oct 2014, 21:23

I fear that if the best young players move abroad to play in France or UK then they wont be available to the Netherlands team if their clubs wont releas them.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby Silver Fox » Sat, 25 Oct 2014, 08:09

Yes, but that is a problem our rivals also have to deal with.
How much weaker will Belgium be because of this compared to last seasons?

It means that the higher you want to play the more you have to adapt to the international release windows.

It's good to see that Netherlands, Belgium and Moldova have planned their 3 matches amongst each other in the 6N release window.
Wether that will make a difference remains to be seen however. La Rochelle for example (where Julien Berger (B) and Zeno Kieft (NL) play) have shown in the past not to be too cooperative.

olivier

Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby olivier » Mon, 15 Dec 2014, 08:41

Dutch rugby association in financial trouble
The Dutch rugby association NRB is on the verge of bankruptcy and needs to find €1.2m in the short term to prevent it going bust. The organisation is now suggesting that each senior member pay an extra €80 and each junior €40 in an effort to restore the organsation’s finances, the Volkskrant reports on Monday. Such a fund-raising round would generate some €675,000 from the organisation’s 10,000 members. This, plus a €350,000 bond will ensure the NRB is financially healthy by 2017, the association says. If the bond proves impossible to organise, the association will ask for more money from its members next year, the Volkskrant says. The Dutch rugby association was founded in 1932. Its current ambitions including ensuring the Oranje women’s sevens team qualifies for the next Olympics, the Volkskrant says.


http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2 ... ouble.php/

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby 4N » Mon, 15 Dec 2014, 15:11

olivier wrote:Dutch rugby association in financial trouble
The Dutch rugby association NRB is on the verge of bankruptcy and needs to find €1.2m in the short term to prevent it going bust. The organisation is now suggesting that each senior member pay an extra €80 and each junior €40 in an effort to restore the organsation’s finances, the Volkskrant reports on Monday. Such a fund-raising round would generate some €675,000 from the organisation’s 10,000 members. This, plus a €350,000 bond will ensure the NRB is financially healthy by 2017, the association says. If the bond proves impossible to organise, the association will ask for more money from its members next year, the Volkskrant says. The Dutch rugby association was founded in 1932. Its current ambitions including ensuring the Oranje women’s sevens team qualifies for the next Olympics, the Volkskrant says.


http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2 ... ouble.php/


Women's rugby bankrupts Holland, that's the real story here. They foolishly spent lavish sums on a form of that game that generates almost no revenue itself.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby NedRugby » Tue, 16 Dec 2014, 00:02

There is truth in what you say, but it is also true that no form of rugby, not only just womens 7's generates revenue in this country. And it is not the only place where the Bond has mis-spent, I am sad to say. There is grumbling amoungst the clubs who's members dont want to pay an extra 80 or 40 euro's each. But if the NRB bankrupts I dont know what would happen to the game here. I suppose we would have to leave RugEur and World Rugby? There may still be some friendly club games organised, but who would organise leagues and neutral ref's? Its a potential disaster.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 16 Dec 2014, 00:11

Can World Rugby help out?

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby Buffalo » Tue, 16 Dec 2014, 00:32

Could the Dutch teams join the Belgium or German systems?

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby iul » Tue, 16 Dec 2014, 01:02

TBF their union is absolutely shit at marketing their games. A rich, small country, with 10k registered members should be able to gather a lot more spectators to their international games than the couple of hundred they do. Everything's within a couple of hours of Amsterdam, they should be able to average a couple of thousand paying spectators.

They could stimulate sales by organizing a sort of contest for the clubs... sell the most tickets to an international, get a prize of 10k euro or something like that. A few hundred extra spectators would cover that.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 16 Dec 2014, 19:19

To be frank no one can be much help here as I doubt any of us know anything about Dutch bankruptcy law. Is there the concept of protected administration in Holland?

1) How are they insolvent? What bill is it they can't pay?

2) In Dutch law can the body simply be re-formed? If legal, is this really practicable? Reneging on whatever debt it is will not be looked on favorably by your future bank, sponsors etc.

3) What are they going to do differently? I would not be happy shelling out more money to bail a body out unless they had a realistic plan to stop it happening again.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby HMFCalltheway » Tue, 16 Dec 2014, 20:39

Over on the Total RL Cross-Code forum there seem to be a couple of guys who've been involved with the game there so they offer a bit more info on the situation. From what one of the posters is saying it seems that bankruptcy might be it for the NRB and that there is no receivership there.

http://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php/topic/262107-how-much-do-you-pay-to-play/

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby iul » Tue, 16 Dec 2014, 20:48

Dutch bankruptcy law is governed by the
Dutch Bankruptcy Code ( Faillissementswet).
The code covers three separate legal
proceedings. The first is the bankruptcy
( Faillissement). The goal of the bankruptcy is
the liquidation of the assets of the company.
The bankruptcy applies to individuals and
companies. The second legal proceeding in
the Faillissementswet is the Surseance . The
Surseance only applies to companies. Its goal
is to reach an agreement with the creditors of
the company. The third proceeding is the
Schuldsanering . This proceeding is designed
for individuals only. The individual can travel
out of the country freely after the judge's
decision on the case. The individual can also
buy and sell any property and/or articles.

This is what wiki sais about Dutch bankruptcy law.

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Re: Rugby in the Netherlands

Postby 4N » Tue, 16 Dec 2014, 20:57

By the NRB's own records, they spent €600,000 on the women's sevens side last year.

Page 15: http://www.rugby.nl/sites/default/files ... 20Bond.pdf

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