Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

The future of Italian Rugby

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Figaro » Sat, 03 Sep 2016, 09:03

Treviso weren't too bad last night losing to Leinster 8-20. Zebre though were very, very poor against the Ospreys losing 59-5. Almost all the Zebre players were capped internationals but they looked like they given up about 5 minutes in.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby dropkick » Sat, 03 Sep 2016, 09:14

Treviso kicker Allan missed some easy kicks so it could have been tighter.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 15:52

Photos of the abandoned Flaminio: http://www.corrieredellosport.it/foto/c ... eAccept#43

REALLY sad, as it is clearly a place were rugby could be thriving. That's a perfect place for PRO12.
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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby dropkick » Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 17:59

So early days yet in the pro12 and apart from 2 matches, the Italian sides have been more competitive than last season.
Treviso had a comfortable win against Dragons last weekend. Zebre lost to Cardiff by 2pts but missed a conversion to level it. The week before Zebre were heading for a bonus point win against Connacht only for the weather to call it off.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Figaro » Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 20:52

dropkick wrote:So early days yet in the pro12 and apart from 2 matches, the Italian sides have been more competitive than last season.
Treviso had a comfortable win against Dragons last weekend. Zebre lost to Cardiff by 2pts but missed a conversion to level it. The week before Zebre were heading for a bonus point win against Connacht only for the weather to call it off.


Cynics would say that it was only "on" in the first place because of the weather. But yes, Zebre were horribly unlucky to have that match called off, and both teams are looking stronger, especially Treviso, though the Dragons were very poor in their loss. Also Marty BAnks has yet to play for Treviso. But it's early days yet; for all that they have been competitive, neither side has been getting those vital losing bonus points that decide the bottom third of the table. For all that I maintain that the Dragons are going to finish bottom this season; they have looked appallingly poor at times.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby ihateblazers » Sat, 01 Oct 2016, 13:17

victorsra wrote:Photos of the abandoned Flaminio: http://www.corrieredellosport.it/foto/c ... eAccept#43

REALLY sad, as it is clearly a place were rugby could be thriving. That's a perfect place for PRO12.


With A.S Roma building their new purpose built stadium surely Lazio could consider renovating the Flaminio, the rugby union could possibly form a relationship there to get it done. I understand things aren't that simple in Italy though.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Sat, 08 Oct 2016, 10:33

The rugby channel.it is starting to show live some games of Eccellenza. This afternoon at 16.00 they will stream Rovigo v San Donà, Piacenza v Calvisano, Mogliano v Reggio Emilia. It's free, but I don't know if there are geographic limitations
http://www.therugbychannel.it

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sat, 08 Oct 2016, 10:41

You can also get live streaming of the home Pro12 games of Zebre and Treviso at that website. You need Google Chrome Hola in order to view the Pro12 matches outside of Italy. Hola let's you trick the Internet that you are in another country.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Sat, 08 Oct 2016, 13:41

These are the direct YT links

Mogliano-Reggio
Lyons-Calvisano
Rovigo-San Donà

In Reggio's squad there's Florian Cazenave, the smart (and a bit wrangler) scrum half from Perpignan

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby tryman » Fri, 14 Oct 2016, 20:52

Leonardo Sarto was excellent tonight for Glasgow, scoring 2 tries and getting man of the match.

Must be Italy's best winger by a country mile. Quality player and completely underrated.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 14 Oct 2016, 21:36

to be fair I think a blind arthritic asthmatic ant could cut our bag of shit defence apart at the moment.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby ihateblazers » Tue, 18 Oct 2016, 07:07

Treviso 10 - La Rochelle 41

What the hell is going on at Treviso? La Rochelle are in pretty good form this year but that is still an embarrassing score line at home with a near full strength lineup.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Figaro » Tue, 18 Oct 2016, 08:41

ihateblazers wrote:Treviso 10 - La Rochelle 41

What the hell is going on at Treviso? La Rochelle are in pretty good form this year but that is still an embarrassing score line at home with a near full strength lineup.


They have had a significant turnover in their squad with many new players and it is going to take time for the new team to gel. That said that will be a disappointing result for them, especially given that the French sides usually field second strings in this competition. Zebre's conceding 86 points the same weekend (albeit to a top side in Wasps) makes it a pretty poor weekend.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Tue, 08 Nov 2016, 08:33

Highlights of last sunday Eccellenza's match Viadana v Reggio Emilia (my city), ended 36-29. Someone has checked it and there were 39' of effective play, a rarity in the italian championship. In Reggio's team there are as scrum half Florian Cazenave (he's one-eye seeing, he wear a red casket and rugby goggles) and as flyhalf Correntin Daguin, french as Cazenave and big brother of the Stade Francais' scrumhalf


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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Stef » Tue, 08 Nov 2016, 17:15

Calvisano is leading Eccellenza by 19 points followed by Padova et San Dona that have 14 points. Very poor start for Rovigo and Mogliano. Like last year, there is a big gap between the first team and the last team, Lazio. Probably Calvisano will easily win the title this year and with some luck they may play the European play-off again against Timisoara.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby dropkick » Tue, 08 Nov 2016, 17:58

Interesting article from COS yesterday.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/37898062
But as he speaks to BBC Sport on the banks of Lake Garda, O'Shea is both realistic and bullish.

"We aren't going to be idiotic and say we are going to win World Cups and win Grand Slams," he says. "But you will see very, very competitive Italian teams very, very quickly.

"People will laugh at that - let them."

-------

But in a sporting world obsessed with "marginal gains", he says there are "massive gains" to be made in Italian rugby, from structure and administration, to confidence.

"I would say we have massive gains before we start talking marginal, and that's quite exciting," he says.

----------

But what is his message to the doubters, those that feel Italian rugby is a busted flush, and should no longer be accustomed to the top table of European rugby, whether that is the Six Nations or the Pro 12?

"Be very careful of what you wish for, in every walk of life. Never become arrogant, because on your way down you will meet people on their way back up. And you will need a friend. And Italy will be up, and somebody else will be down," O'Shea warns.

"And that's where the friendships and people supporting you in your times when you need them, is important.

"Rugby needs to expand, not contract. I guarantee you there is a will - and a way - over here to make us more and more competitive.


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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 08 Nov 2016, 18:56

dropkick wrote:"Be very careful of what you wish for, in every walk of life. Never become arrogant, because on your way down you will meet people on their way back up. And you will need a friend. And Italy will be up, and somebody else will be down," O'Shea warns.

"And that's where the friendships and people supporting you in your times when you need them, is important.

"Rugby needs to expand, not contract. I guarantee you there is a will - and a way - over here to make us more and more competitive.

Quite a bit contradictory (and hypocrite?) to remind Home Nations of the fact that if they ever open 6N not only Italy may be in danger and then in the following sentence talk about rugby global expansion...

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Tue, 08 Nov 2016, 20:29

A bit hypocritical yes. What "friends" have Italy made among teams ranked below them (other than US & Canada)? But O'Shea is new and has had no input into the fixture selection of the FIR. If next years November tours ignore Tier 2 again then we can call O'Shea out as a hypocrite.

Very strange timing to be confident in his remarks. He's putting out an experimental side against the All Blacks on Saturday. They will be destroyed!

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Figaro » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 11:21

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:
Very strange timing to be confident in his remarks. He's putting out an experimental side against the All Blacks on Saturday. They will be destroyed!


A good time to try out something new I'd say - nothing to lose, nobody is going to be particularly shocked if Italy lose heavily whether he tries an experimental side or just same-old.

Mind you, there is a case to say that if the experimental side loses heavily nothing much has been learned.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 12:15

If they lose by three figures it will increase the calls for them to be removed from the 6N. Probably good news for this forum, but not for the FIR.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 10 Nov 2016, 07:11

Strange comment.

If anything it will increase calls for elite T1's to isolate themselves further and status quo establishment fans will use it as an example of why T1 should stick to playing themselves. You won't find many on this forum who want to see Italy do badly... except against T2 nations :D

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Thu, 10 Nov 2016, 08:21

Well I meant simply that we saw last year the worse Italy do, the louder the calls from figures within Tier 1 for promotion and relegation in the 6N. Losing say 100-3 to NZ would be a notable result across Europe and Osheas selection raises the possibility of a result like that. Although I think it'll be 50-60 points.

Under those circumstances if I was a Tier 2 European rugby fan I'd be wanting Italy to get thrashed!

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 10 Nov 2016, 08:49

I see what you mean but i don't think it would be the case. Yes there would be a few token articles in the media, maybe even a few quotes from coaches/union officials etc... But Unless Georgia or any other T2 European side beats Italy (which is why Italy is avoiding fixtures against them like the plague), then Italy being smashed by elite T1 sides is just going to create more apathy towards expansion. Even then we all know how much of a circle jerk the 6 nations is. There is still a massive superiority complex and ignorance in the establishment nations (even at the highest Union levels), and a widening gap between Italy would only suggest that the teams "below" (even though Italy is ranked below several T2 nations) them don't deserve to have the "privilege" of playing against them.

A lot of T1 fans are saying that they should never have expanded to 6 nations for example, or in extreme cases even when Scotland were still appalling (3/4 years ago) they should decrease to 4 nations with home and away.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby barbar84 » Fri, 11 Nov 2016, 12:00

Armchair Fan wrote:
dropkick wrote:"Be very careful of what you wish for, in every walk of life. Never become arrogant, because on your way down you will meet people on their way back up. And you will need a friend. And Italy will be up, and somebody else will be down," O'Shea warns.

"And that's where the friendships and people supporting you in your times when you need them, is important.

"Rugby needs to expand, not contract. I guarantee you there is a will - and a way - over here to make us more and more competitive.

Quite a bit contradictory (and hypocrite?) to remind Home Nations of the fact that if they ever open 6N not only Italy may be in danger and then in the following sentence talk about rugby global expansion...


If you listen to the actual interview, when put to him about Italy dropping out of the 6N, he suggests a 7 nations with Georgia. It's been left out of all the written articles for some reason.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 11 Nov 2016, 17:14

I still think that we shouldn't think about a 7 Nations. A 7 Nations would probably keep the current imobility, as they would accept Georgia and that's it.

The 6 Nations must become a 8 Nations, with the 8th nations relegated every two years OR facing a relegation playoff every year.

The current 6 Nations has 5 rounds played in 7 weekends (2 byes). It could be simply 7 rounds in 7 weekends, with a limit of matches for each player, respecting player welfare. It could have a limit of 3 or 4 matches in a row in the starting XV for each player or something like 5 matches in a row the starting 23. It is something up to discussion. But I don't see reason to defend 7 Nations if there is room for 8 in the calendar.
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