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RWC 2019 Qualifying

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 15:21

Yes, Germany and Spain should visit Portugal, but those games wouldn't count towards RWC.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 15:30

Raven wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Even if Spain beats Romania next year (which isn't easy at all according to historic records), Romania can easily earn bonus points in all their games: a losing one in Spain and attacking in all their home games. To me, they have already booked their tickets to Japan.

Regarding the play-off against Portugal, according to Rugby Europe documents it would take place at home of the Championship side, not in Portugal. Still a danger since it takes place in May and player release will be a headache for all involved sides, but easier for Spain, Germany or Russia.


I think my message was a bit of a mix; I meant a hypothetical scenario if Belgium came down and Portugal got promoted in May.

I know the play-off is set for May and in Belgium; getting the players that play overseas might be difficult for both sides, but I guess as Portugal has been selecting domestic players it shouldn´t be much of an issue.

What I meant with the home and away advantage is that (I believe) if Portugal makes it through, then they will play the Home games Belgium played away this tournament right? so Germany & Spain would be in Portugal.

Sorry I might be a bit confusing to read today!


Armchair is talking about the World Cup qualification game, which we already know is against Portugal in May next year and at home for the 2nd placed team in the RWC Qualifier ranking

You are talking about Portugal/Belgium having home games in the REC next year which gives them advantages in fighting relegation, but won't take part in the RWC qualifier and the qualification game Belgium vs. Portugal.

And yes it is as complicated as it gets.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Raven » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 15:54

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Armchair is talking about the World Cup qualification game, which we already know is against Portugal in May next year and at home for the 2nd placed team in the RWC Qualifier ranking

You are talking about Portugal/Belgium having home games in the REC next year which gives them advantages in fighting relegation, but won't take part in the RWC qualifier and the qualification game Belgium vs. Portugal.

And yes it is as complicated as it gets.


Oohhh, Achso! yes, should have thought those "tiny" details of the likes of the Qualy game and that games vs Portugal won´t count.

In that case possibilities are narrowed, but I still believe it opens the chances for all 4 teams nonetheless.

And yes, the qualy for the next World Cup is quite complicated. Partly due to Japan being host and leaving the direct Asia 1 spot vacant (then re-transformed into a repechage place) and due to Georgia´s direct qualification.... :D

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 16:25

Raven wrote:Oohhh, Achso! yes, should have thought those "tiny" details of the likes of the Qualy game and that games vs Portugal won´t count.


I still made a mistake, as we don't know if the RWC qualification game really is in May.

Raven wrote:And yes, the qualy for the next World Cup is quite complicated. Partly due to Japan being host and leaving the direct Asia 1 spot vacant (then re-transformed into a repechage place)


Nothing was changed here. Asia2 was just made Asia1. Hong Kong was playing in the repechage for RWC 2015. The Asia qualification is quite easy. Korea plays HK home-and-away, the winner plays the winner of the division one level down.

Raven wrote:and due to Georgia´s direct qualification.... :D


Europe is f... up due to Georgia, but also because of the switch to a season right before this year which just lasts one year. This means different home and away games which would be "unjust". So make it more equal lead to more complications. Nothing to do with World Rugby to be fair.

Than you add some "complication-spice" by making every single nation in the world be part of the RWC qualification. This is in my eyes good as every team can market a game as a world qualifier game. Quite smart actually.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Raven » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 18:51

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Raven wrote:Oohhh, Achso! yes, should have thought those "tiny" details of the likes of the Qualy game and that games vs Portugal won´t count.


I still made a mistake, as we don't know if the RWC qualification game really is in May.


Well dates are not that important, but thanks for clarifying the mistake I hadn´t notice.

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Raven wrote:And yes, the qualy for the next World Cup is quite complicated. Partly due to Japan being host and leaving the direct Asia 1 spot vacant (then re-transformed into a repechage place)


Nothing was changed here. Asia2 was just made Asia1. Hong Kong was playing in the repechage for RWC 2015. The Asia qualification is quite easy. Korea plays HK home-and-away, the winner plays the winner of the division one level down.


Well, I think it has changed considering before the Asia 1 spot was a "Regional qualifier" that gave them a direct qualification and Asia 2 chances were quite low with a one legged elimination game before the Repechage final, now it´s Asia 1 that goes to a Repechage tournament, without any other stages as Europe or Oceania have. It´s kind of unfair when you think of it; I´m not saying HK or Korea would be a RWC powerhouse but ...that´s that!

I also prefer the best teams to be part of the World Cup, so it´s not that I´m complaining, I´m just pointing out that they have done a whole set of unexpected changes. I even think that Japan being host isn´t THAT much of a problem and the whole thing had to be re-revised when Japan ended up as not only the host but 3rd in their group.

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Raven wrote:and due to Georgia´s direct qualification.... :D


Europe is f... up due to Georgia, but also because of the switch to a season right before this year which just lasts one year. This means different home and away games which would be "unjust". So make it more equal lead to more complications. Nothing to do with World Rugby to be fair.

Than you add some "complication-spice" by making every single nation in the world be part of the RWC qualification. This is in my eyes good as every team can market a game as a world qualifier game. Quite smart actually.


Georgia´s 3rd place (as well as Japans) also added an extra complication because they left out the PI´s of their place (Tonga and Samoa finished 4th in their respective groups), and WR then "invented" (one cannot say "created", cause there´s no creativity in what they did) the qualifier tournament in Oceania with chances for not 1 or 2 teams, but 4! not to hear extra complaints.

Again, I can´t say I prefer to see a team with no level whatsoever at the world stage at the extent of a team with the caliber players Samoa, Tonga or Fiji have, but c´mon....

I just wonder what would have happened if Georgia and Rumania would have ended 3rd in their group, what would they have invented to make Italy qualify? or if Canada would have been 3rd in that group? Italy & Rumania would have direct places in a qualification and then Russia-Spain-Germany would have played for only a Repechage place?

But anyway, too many "what if´s" take us nowhere ! ;)

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 22:47

I ranted about this 4th qualification chance for Oceania and the rip off of European rugby after Georgia qualified in more than just a few posts. But well, we won't change it now.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 23:02

The whole qualification process has gotten increasingly flawed the more competitive the teams have become. The entire qualifying process needs to be started from scratch after 2019, there's too many pathways for some teams and not enough pathways for others. I mentioned this before but the fact a Pacific island team could theoretically qualifying by losing 5 matches and only winning one whilst a European team could win as many as 6 matches and fail to qualify is a a sign the system is broken.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby antlat » Tue, 21 Mar 2017, 01:46

I know this is a European forum therefore I would expect a pro European idea on the qualifying process.

However, as a person who lives in the Oceania region, I would have been very upset if Oceania had lost a spot.

The facts are the facts, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga (to a lesser degree) are heads and shoulders above the remaining teams in the entire qualification process worldwide with the exceptions of Georgia, Romania and USA.

The other reality is, that no matter what process World Rugby implements, 99% of the qualifiers can be very safely guessed. The only region that is slightly more difficult is Africa, where Namibia has been tested strongly by Tunisia and Kenya in the past.

Can the process be improved, absolutely!!!

For starters I would have preferred Asia 1 to advance straight to the Repechage tournament.
Would make the winner of the Oceania Cup play against Fiji, Samoa and Tonga in a single round robin tournament. ( I know the scorelines maybe a bit scary)

Would have made the NACRA Championship winner play against USA and Canada which would have separated North America and South America except for the Americas 2 play-off.

The European process should have a single season from top to bottom which would result in Romania qualifying and Spain meeting the Play-off series winners to determine Tonga's opponents in the Europe/Oceania Play-off.

I am more than happy with the rest.

I actually believe the Europe 2/Oceania 3 play-off was a stroke of genius as both these teams are at a similar level and the loser would be very firm favorites to qualify as the Repechage winner resulting in neither Oceania or Europe losing a spot.

As far as the number of qualification spots go for each region, every World Championship or World Cup analyses and make changes tournament to tournament to ensure the best teams have a chance to make it. This includes the FIFA World Cup. Also most championship qualifiers provide advantages to stronger teams, usually in the form of byes until later rounds. So I don't understand why people believe the Rugby World Cup should be any different.

My personal preference would be to only have the Host Nation and Defending Champion qualify automatically. The reality is that this will not happen in our lifetimes.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 21 Mar 2017, 04:14

Oceania is going to have to one day contend with having fewer teams at the World Cup. You can't keep giving Fiji, Tonga and Samoa easy access if there are bigger markets that are ever improving on the field. Before 1999 only two of the three nations ever qualified. As far as I'm concerned 4 places is more than enough for Oceania when the time comes for expansion.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 23 Mar 2017, 15:59

World Rugby has just confirmed Pacific Nations Cup will take place in July.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby victorsra » Fri, 24 Mar 2017, 04:14

June 24th: Canada vs USA, in Canada
July 1st: USA vs Canada, in USA
July 1st: Tonga vs Samoa, TBA
July 8th: Tonga vs Fiji, TBA
July 15th: Samoa vs Fiji, in Apia

Fiji will play 5 matches in June and July. How they will manage to deal with players' rests? I am concerned about those that play in Europe. And that match on July 15th is a problem!
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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 24 Mar 2017, 04:28

Rugby should do it differently because it's better. Time to stop acting like a shit old boys club, we won't grow the game that way.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Neptune » Fri, 24 Mar 2017, 09:58

Rugby burnout is a problem WR need to tackle alongside player safety and the concussion debate.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby grande » Fri, 24 Mar 2017, 12:27

Are those Canada/USA games in the international window?

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby armchair_expert » Fri, 24 Mar 2017, 13:25

grande wrote:Are those Canada/USA games in the international window?

World Cup qualifiers are must release regardless of windows

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Figaro » Fri, 24 Mar 2017, 14:05

Given that the 6N/SANZAR are not likely to accept proper qualifying competitions (which you would have to implement, if you were removing auto-qualification), the best solution is to expand the tournament, and have more places up for grabs in the repechage.

That way, if a team earns a guaranteed place by doing well at the previous WC (like Georgia and Japan did), that region gets an extra repechage place. The best teams will still qualify (by definition, because they will have beaten the other teams in the repechage), but you won't have to change the system each year.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 24 Mar 2017, 16:19

The only way to truly change the system is to have non 6N/RC teams winning the WC in multiple years.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Canalina » Sun, 26 Mar 2017, 09:14

According to this scheme http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/qualifying/oceania/bracket
the Oceania Cup inserted in the World Cup Qualifications will be played just in 2018. So perhaps neither this year we are going to see the minor oceanic nations competing in a test match
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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Canalina » Sat, 01 Apr 2017, 07:05

The Oceania XV Cup, inserted in the World Cup qualifying process, will be this september
No other details in Tahiti Rugby's facebook post
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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Canalina » Wed, 12 Apr 2017, 05:59

Les Oceania à XV 2017 se dérouleront finalement du 25 juillet au 6 aout 2017, aux iles Cook.
Seules 3 équipes sont inscrites: PNG, Cook et Tahiti !


So by forfait Niue, Solomon and Eastern Samoa are out of the next World Cup
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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby dwpeate » Wed, 12 Apr 2017, 16:54

where was this posted?

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby victorsra » Wed, 12 Apr 2017, 17:21

Ironic that Oceania's zone in the FIFA World Cup Qualy has more teams than the RWC Qualy.

Vanuatu out too. The last time Vanuatu played the RWC Qualy was for the 2007 tournament, when there were 6 teams involved!

And New Caledonia isn't a World Rugby member (but it is a FIFA member...)
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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Canalina » Wed, 12 Apr 2017, 20:00

dwpeate wrote:where was this posted?

https://www.facebook.com/rugbytahitiinfos/
Italian rugby news blog: http://www.rugby.it/news/

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby fridge46 » Wed, 12 Apr 2017, 21:10

Just 3?!?! Thats disappointing :/ but im sure those missing have good reasons

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby antlat » Wed, 12 Apr 2017, 22:40

Yes, this a worrying trend in Oceania.

I hope they are not all just concentrating on Rugby 7s.

I wonder if there is a criteria in World Rugby membership that a national union must be active in both 15s and 7s??? I hope so???

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