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RWC 2019 Qualifying

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RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby dwpeate » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 15:26

Today on World Rugby's website announces Jamaica to once again kick off the qualifying process in March vs St Vincent and the Grenadines.

Qualifying outline as we know it:

Regional:
AFRICA: 1 place and 1 repechage - Winner of Africa Cup (2017?)
EUROPE: 1 place - Winner of European Nations Cup (excluding Georgia)
OCEANIA: 2 places - Winner and runner up of Pacific Tri Nations (2 years, home and away)
AMERICAS: 2 places and 1 repechage - Winner of home and away series USA v Canada; Loser of series > home and away series vs South American/Carribean champion

Inter-regional:
EUROPE/OCEANIA: 1 place and 1 repechage place - Nation second to direct European qualifying place home and away vs Pacific Tri Nations 3rd place will qualify directly. Loser places repechage
ASIA/OCEANIA: 1 repechage place - Winner of Asian Rugby Championship (excluding Japan) home and away vs Oceania Cup 2017 champion for repechage place

Repechage:
Round Robin tournament featuring:

Africa 2
Americas 3
Europe 2/Oceania 3
Asia 1/Oceania 4

Hope this is a useful outline and may more news and discussions happen here in the next few years. :)
Last edited by dwpeate on Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby suofficer » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 15:42

Excluding Georgia. That's huge. Wonder how many Portuguese we can get to Japan :)

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 21:00

suofficer wrote:Excluding Georgia. That's huge. Wonder how many Portuguese we can get to Japan :)


Nope, thats for Europe exactly the situation as it was for 2015.
Georgia and the second placed go through, the third placed goes to repechage with 3 games to play.
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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Canalina » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 21:18

dwpeate wrote:...
Repechage:
Round Robin tournament featuring:

Africa 2
Americas 3
Europe 2/Oceania 3
Asia 1/Oceania 4
...

Thanks Dwpeate

My guess for the repechage round robin composition

Zimbabwe or Kenya
Uruguay
Russia or Tonga
South Korea or Hong Kong

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby fridge46 » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 21:30

When they say "excluding Georgia", do they mean :-

A) Teams progressing based on the final overall table (taking into account all matches and skipping Georgia's final position) or;
B) Creating a table which ignores the matches vs Georgia (ie taking into account matches only involving ROU, RUS, POR, ESP and ???)?

In reality, the same result should identical in both cases, but it could make a difference if there a few surprise results or Georgia fields a weakened team in some cases.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Rowan » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 21:45

Zimbabwe or Kenya
Uruguay
Russia or Tonga
South Korea or Hong Kong


Is this for one place or two? If only one, that's going to be a lot more difficult that last time, and I imagine Tonga will kick ass . . .
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 22:09

They may as well just give Fiji, Samoa and Tonga automatic spots. All they are doing here is wasting everyone's time jockeying for position.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Canalina » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 22:47

thatrugbyguy wrote:They may as well just give Fiji, Samoa and Tonga automatic spots. All they are doing here is wasting everyone's time jockeying for position.

If World Rugby did that, we tier II fans would bury them under a mountain of insults for snobbism, close mind, fear of confrontation…

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Hansgrohe » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 22:57

dwpeate wrote:Today on World Rugby's website announces Jamaica to once again kick off the qualifying process in March vs St Vincent and the Grenadines.

Qualifying outline as we know it:

Regional:
AFRICA: 1 place and 1 repechage - Winner of Africa Cup (2017?)
EUROPE: 1 place - Winner of European Nations Cup (excluding Georgia)
OCEANIA: 2 places - Winner and runner up of Pacific Tri Nations (2 years, home and away)
AMERICAS: 2 places and 1 repechage - Winner of home and away series USA v Canada; Loser of series > home and away series vs South American/Carribean champion

Inter-regional:
EUROPE/OCEANIA: 1 place and 1 repechage place - Nation second to direct European qualifying place home and away vs Pacific Tri Nations 3rd place will qualify directly. Loser places repechage
ASIA/OCEANIA: 1 repechage place - Winner of Asian Rugby Championship (excluding Japan) home and away vs Oceania Cup 2017 champion for repechage place

Repechage:
Round Robin tournament featuring:

Africa 2
Americas 3
Europe 2/Oceania 3
Asia 1/Oceania 4

Hope this is a useful outline and may more news and discussions happen here in the next few years. :)


Thoughts on this:

- There really should be some kind of playoff for the African qualifying final spot. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for one team to win it yet not qualify; that just makes the competition a bit of a farce. This was an issue with the Gold Cup for a while where the US and Mexico would send weakened squads because of the Confederations Cup alignment; the solution was a playoff. Perhaps if multiple teams win the title in 2016-2018, there is a playoff for the automatic spot, or perhaps points are tallied up through the years to see who qualifies, similar to a FIFA World Cup qualifying stage. Otherwise, the tournament becomes a farce.

- Georgia has punched their ticket as far as I'm concerned, so the European world cup race should be interesting. Russia has been improving, Spain is getting better at youth too, and Germany is taking some serious steps, so this could get very interesting.

- I'm still iffy on Asia losing a guaranteed spot in a competition that is supposed to be a World Cup, even with Japan guaranteed, but that was a very nasty debate a while ago, so I'd rather not even bring it up.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 23:01

It seems absurd to me that one of Samoa, Fiji and Tonga can theoretically lose 6 matches at still qualify for the world cup. The level of safety nets they've put in place for those three is mind boggling.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby fridge46 » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 23:16

Hansgrohe wrote:- There really should be some kind of playoff for the African qualifying final spot. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for one team to win it yet not qualify; that just makes the competition a bit of a farce. This was an issue with the Gold Cup for a while where the US and Mexico would send weakened squads because of the Confederations Cup alignment; the solution was a playoff. Perhaps if multiple teams win the title in 2016-2018, there is a playoff for the automatic spot, or perhaps points are tallied up through the years to see who qualifies, similar to a FIFA World Cup qualifying stage. Otherwise, the tournament becomes a farce.


Africa sending the champions of one particular year is no different to the other confederations:

The Runner Up of a particular ARC goes onto the Asia/Oceania playoff - against a team that wins a particular Oceania Cup.

The winner of a certain NARCA Championship progresses to play the CONSUR B (or whatever its called now) champion of a certain year, the winner of which qualifies for a particular Sudamerica Championship to play the USA/Canada loser.

Winners of lower European divisons taking place in a certain year progress through the European repechage system

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 23:17

Rowan wrote:
Zimbabwe or Kenya
Uruguay
Russia or Tonga
South Korea or Hong Kong


Is this for one place or two? If only one, that's going to be a lot more difficult that last time, and I imagine Tonga will kick ass . . .


You really don't remember the long discussion we had about this very qualification format just 3 months ago and you saying how very just even the possible 4th spot for Oceania for their merit was?

Tonga is just in there, if they lose against Europe 2 (formerly known as Europe3 when Georgia couldn't qualify directly.

Also it is not Korea or Hong Kong it is
Korea/Hongkong OR Cook Islands/PNG/whateverislandoutthere&hasateam (better: whoever has more kiwis with some ancestors from there so probably the Cookies)

And to answer your question: it is for one spot, as discussed before
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 23:27, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 23:25

fridge46 wrote:Winners of lower European divisons taking place in a certain year progress through the European repechage system


Not sure about this one, as the European Nations Cup (or whatever the call it then) will change after this year from a two-year-cycle to a one year cycle with playoffs between the 6th of the highest division and the 1st of the second division (and so on)
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby rugby.change » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 23:29

I believe Europe's qualification will take place in 2018, to give the teams in the lower divisions a chance to qualify. The 2017 will be a 1 year tournament like the 6 nations, so obviously the loser of 1A will play the winner of 1B in a play-off. This gives the winner of 1B in 2017 a chance to qualify should they win the play-off.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Rowan » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 23:36

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Rowan wrote:
Zimbabwe or Kenya
Uruguay
Russia or Tonga
South Korea or Hong Kong


Is this for one place or two? If only one, that's going to be a lot more difficult that last time, and I imagine Tonga will kick ass . . .


You really don't remember the long discussion we had about this very qualification format just 3 months ago and you saying how very just even the possible 4th spot for Oceania for their merit was?

Tonga is just in there, if they lose against Europe 2 (formerly known as Europe3 when Georgia couldn't qualify directly.

Also it is not Korea or Hong Kong it is
Korea/Hongkong OR Cook Islands/PNG/whateverislandoutthere&hasateam (better: whoever has more kiwis with some ancestors from there so probably the Cookies)

And to answer your question: it is for one spot, as discussed before


Thanks. That is tough then. The discussion I recall us all having was simply about whether all three Pacific Island nations should have a chance to qualify as per usual (something I supported). I don't recall debating the actual qualifying format personally. I only recall commenting at the time that it was disappointing to see the continued minimalization of the process.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby dwpeate » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 23:44

fridge46 wrote:When they say "excluding Georgia", do they mean :-

A) Teams progressing based on the final overall table (taking into account all matches and skipping Georgia's final position) or;
B) Creating a table which ignores the matches vs Georgia (ie taking into account matches only involving ROU, RUS, POR, ESP and ???)?

In reality, the same result should identical in both cases, but it could make a difference if there a few surprise results or Georgia fields a weakened team in some cases.


My interpretation, Fridge, would be your option "B" - as they did with the European nations when Cyprus was not eligible - however, until next month we probably won't know for sure

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby dwpeate » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 23:46

I should also make clear that this is my own type up of the system, so the phrasing is not theirs! :)

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby fridge46 » Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 23:52

I forget about the ENC changes. That does complicate things - I am going to have to think about this one for a while.

WR used the following for Europe: "The highest-ranked team from the Rugby Europe Championship (excluding Georgia) will qualify for RWC 2019"

To me, that does sound like option A will be used in the post further up.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Coloradoan » Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 00:08

fridge46 wrote:I forget about the ENC changes. That does complicate things - I am going to have to think about this one for a while.

WR used the following for Europe: "The highest-ranked team from the Rugby Europe Championship (excluding Georgia) will qualify for RWC 2019"

To me, that does sound like option A will be used in the post further up.


In the past WR/IRB has excluded results against teams not involved in qualification. For example, matches against Cyprus didn't count in the last RWC cycle.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 00:45

Rowan wrote:Thanks. That is tough then. The discussion I recall us all having was simply about whether all three Pacific Island nations should have a chance to qualify as per usual (something I supported). I don't recall debating the actual qualifying format personally. I only recall commenting at the time that it was disappointing to see the continued minimalization of the process.


Of course they should all have the chance to qualify, it's the amount of safety nets in place to ensure they do that's the issue.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Canalina » Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 04:22

Coloradoan wrote:
fridge46 wrote:I forget about the ENC changes. That does complicate things - I am going to have to think about this one for a while.

WR used the following for Europe: "The highest-ranked team from the Rugby Europe Championship (excluding Georgia) will qualify for RWC 2019"

To me, that does sound like option A will be used in the post further up.


In the past WR/IRB has excluded results against teams not involved in qualification. For example, matches against Cyprus didn't count in the last RWC cycle.

I'd say option A too, but I didn't remember that results against Cyprus weren't counted in the past. Anyway Cyprus was not a IRB member, a case slightly different. To count also the results against Georgia would be more simple and more fair to me.

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Zimbabwe or Kenya
Uruguay
Russia or Tonga
South Korea or Hong Kong

it is not Korea or Hong Kong it is
Korea/Hongkong OR Cook Islands/PNG/whateverislandoutthere&hasateam (better: whoever has more kiwis with some ancestors from there so probably the Cookies)

I wrote just "Korea or Hong Kong" because I give for certain that PNG or Cook or the other archipelagos will have no chances against them. They were just my tips. Also I wrote "Russia or Tonga" because for some reason I think that Spain could overcome Russia but they couldn't eventually beat Tonga, while Russia could do it.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby YamahaKiwi » Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 08:26

Why is including the results v Georgia fairer when often in ENC they changed their line-ups depending on who they played and had weaker lineups v the bottom teams or for some away matches for instance? What if direct qualification or even qualification for the repechage was decided by a couple of results v Georgia where in one case Georgia put out a weaker team leading to a shock result? We have seen it before with games v POR and SPA.

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 08:44

dwpeate
Today on World Rugby's website

hard to navigate and see ... pls, help with LINK/URL

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby Rowan » Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 09:04

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:dwpeate
Today on World Rugby's website

hard to navigate and see ... pls, help with LINK/URL


:thumbup: That's an awful web-site!
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: RWC 2019 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 10:12

YamahaKiwi wrote:Why is including the results v Georgia fairer when often in ENC they changed their line-ups depending on who they played and had weaker lineups v the bottom teams or for some away matches for instance? What if direct qualification or even qualification for the repechage was decided by a couple of results v Georgia where in one case Georgia put out a weaker team leading to a shock result? We have seen it before with games v POR and SPA.


What if key players are injured playing Georgia? I think a fairer system would have been to play the ENC as is but the top 4 teams outside of Georgia playoff later in the year for the European spot in straight elimination games, the higher ranked teams in the standings getting home field advantage.

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