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ENC attendance thread

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Sun, 20 Mar 2016, 11:40

RugbyLiebe wrote:Georgia (50k) were apparently outsold

no, 4.500 seats was free. stadium has 54,500 seats but sometimes there is 60,000 crowd.

49K-52K attendance.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby GeoRugby » Sun, 20 Mar 2016, 12:01

52,342 according to GRU on their twitter.

https://twitter.com/GEORGIARUGBY?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby kearnc25 » Sun, 20 Mar 2016, 22:43

GeoRugby wrote:52,342 according to GRU on their twitter.

https://twitter.com/GEORGIARUGBY?ref_src=twsrc^tfw


This is my final worry about Georgia being in the 6 nations put to rest that is an impressive crowd congrats on the win.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby jservuk » Sun, 20 Mar 2016, 23:43

ESPN Rugby used to have a nice stats page for each country which included up to date attendance records. Jut checked now and they've made it harder to easily navigate between the stats for each team.

Here is the link:

England http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/highest_attendance.html?id=1;type=team

USA http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/ ... ;type=team

Romania http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/highest_attendance.html?id=12;type=team

Argentina http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/highest_attendance.html?id=10;type=team

I have been able to find stats for club attendances; international attendances can give a somewhat skewed picture, e.g. in England the vast majority club football attendances will be dwarfed by 6N, and even for a period between 1980-1996 international matches suffered poor attendances (< 20,000 at Wembley), but you would never say that Rugby was a bigger sport back then.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby GeoRugby » Mon, 21 Mar 2016, 01:27

kearnc25 wrote:
GeoRugby wrote:52,342 according to GRU on their twitter.

https://twitter.com/GEORGIARUGBY?ref_src=twsrc^tfw


This is my final worry about Georgia being in the 6 nations put to rest that is an impressive crowd congrats on the win.


Thank you for kind words.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 21 Mar 2016, 07:40

Armchair Fan wrote:Not at all. It's only free for youngsters. It used to cost 10€ and then increased to 15€. At least, as the pitch is given for free to FER all earnings go to our rugby union.


To get some overview.
Ticket prices for Cologne (Germany-Spain) were

Seats (3200):
Adults: 19€
Students 12€
Family (2 Adults + 2 Kids): 38 €

Stands (over 3000):
Adults: 15€
Students 10€
Family (2 Adults + 2 Kids): 30 €
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 21 Mar 2016, 08:35

Do you feel it is expensive? I ask you because I've attended three or four different sporting events in Germany and I always thought ticket prices were low.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 21 Mar 2016, 10:45

Armchair Fan wrote:Do you feel it is expensive? I ask you because I've attended three or four different sporting events in Germany and I always thought ticket prices were low.


I think the prices were reasonable.
You got an U16 game against Poland (where already 2-3000 were present). Then you got an apparently famous Cologne rock band (300k likes on their facebook page is not too bad) and then the game against Spain.

Also I do think it is really important to not give away the tickets too cheap, as this decreases the value of the game itself.

I was just interested how they do in comparision, as ticket prices are, next to the attendance, a really important argument to get games against tier1 teams.
If you sell-out a a 40k stadium with 20€-tickets or even more, there is money to be made.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 23 Mar 2016, 13:25

So I decided to ignore the Portugal numbers as off now

Attendance table ENC 1A 2016

Home Average (rounded numbers)
1. Georgia 23114
2. Spain 8750
3. Germany 7519
4. Romania 5667
5. Russia 2967
6. Portugal 700

Average: 8119

Away average (rounded numbers)
1. Romania 29671
2. Portugal 7441
3. Spain 7205
4. Russia 6000
5. Germany 5000
6. Georgia 2100

Average: 9570

Quite interesting, especially the Georgia away numbers. Maybe we can create a miracle to get the numbers from 2015 together, but I doubt it.
(Notice: normally Russia would be 5th, if the numbers of the Portugal home numbers wouldn'tbe over 4k)

The game against Portugal was the highest attendance in both Spain and Germany. Which could indicate, that western European nations favour games against other western European nations.

Also quite strange: the game against Germany has been the top attendance of both Russia & Romania (and they have played Georgia or Russia respecticely at home, too), while it was the lowest attendance in Georgia (maybe just because the 2000-stadium was outsold). So Eastern European attendance seem to favour games against Germany. Especially in a non-traditional-rugby-town like Sochi.

Trivia: every nation had a higher attendance in the following home game. Apart from Russia (lower against Georgia than against Germany) and Germany (but both capacity crowds, so due to a smaller stadium).

Discuss ;-)
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Wed, 23 Mar 2016, 13:49, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby Figaro » Wed, 23 Mar 2016, 13:35

The game against Portugal was the highest attendance in both Spain and Germany. Which could indicate, that western European nations favour games against other western European nations.


Or, just that Spain-Portugal have a history and rivalry and are always going to get a good crowd, and Germany-Portugal was a relegation decider?

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 23 Mar 2016, 13:44

Figaro wrote:
The game against Portugal was the highest attendance in both Spain and Germany. Which could indicate, that western European nations favour games against other western European nations.


Or, just that Spain-Portugal have a history and rivalry and are always going to get a good crowd, and Germany-Portugal was a relegation decider?


Could very well be, we are lacking data. All I found was the attendance from the last ENC home game in 2013 and there it was 3500 against Portugal with Romania drawing a higher attendance in Spain (4500). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%8 ... t_Division

The question is, if the attendances got up because of the wRWC and more people in general got interested. They, as new fans, maybe prefer rivalries they know from other sports (soccer, cough, cough). But well, just guesses.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Wed, 23 Mar 2016, 14:10

RugbyLiebe:
Georgia-Germany stadium was outsold. there was 1900 seats and 2000 spectators. It should have at least 10,000 on normal stadium.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 23 Mar 2016, 14:20

Figaro wrote:
The game against Portugal was the highest attendance in both Spain and Germany. Which could indicate, that western European nations favour games against other western European nations.


Or, just that Spain-Portugal have a history and rivalry and are always going to get a good crowd, and Germany-Portugal was a relegation decider?

True, but in Spanish rugby Romania is considered a historical rival too, and probably a cloudy/windy/rainy day did not allow a similar crowd.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 23 Mar 2016, 14:21

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:RugbyLiebe:
Georgia-Germany stadium was outsold. there was 1900 seats and 2000 spectators. It should have at least 10,000 on normal stadium.


To be fair, that's what I actually wrote
RugbyLiebe wrote:maybe just because the 2000-stadium was outsold
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby Sables4EVA » Thu, 24 Mar 2016, 06:33

Sorry to be a pain but how do these numbers compare against the 6N attendances?

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby Dato » Thu, 24 Mar 2016, 07:51

Sables4EVA wrote:Sorry to be a pain but how do these numbers compare against the 6N attendances?

In case of Georgia, there would be no problem to fill 50+K Dinamo Arena for 6 N games.
The problem is that ticket prices would be quite low.
However, game against Georgia will attract as many audience for instance in England or Ireland, as games against Italy.
Moreover, for TV broadcasters, I do not think that Georgia-England will be less interesting than Italy-England.
I do not know the exact numbers that Italy contributes to the 6N but for Georgia it would be contribution of Italy minus around 60% of total price of tickets sold in Italy.
Therefore, I do not really see why expansion of 6 nations will financially damage the tournament.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 24 Mar 2016, 08:02

Sables4EVA wrote:Sorry to be a pain but how do these numbers compare against the 6N attendances?


As the 6 Nations is the sport event with the highest average attendance worldwide of any sport events wether league or national teams or anything (68,968 in 2016) the ENC does trail behind by a mile. Hence why it is an uneducated guess to promote the ENC as a counterpart or the better competition than the 6 Nations.
(source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... ournaments)

More important is the question how the ENC does in comparision to other sport figures, because that's what gives you spaces in local press and other things. And I think it does quite good.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby Figaro » Thu, 24 Mar 2016, 08:24

RugbyLiebe wrote:
As the 6 Nations is the sport event with the highest average attendance worldwide of any sport events whether league or national teams or anything (68,968 in 2016)


I think this might be only if you exclude one-off "events" like the Superbowl, but it's certainly routinely the highest average attendance for a competition between national teams (although the 1994 football world cup averaged 69k per game; most football WCs average about 40k though).

Can anyone explain why Romania get such lousy attendances in the ENC? Considering they're one of the strongest teams in the competition, and a nation with a lot of Rugby history, I'd expect them to get a decent crowd, but their average of 3,300 for 2016 is appalling. I understand that Russia plays its games in an inconvenient location, but I don't see any reason why Romania shouldn't do well. Both Poland and Ukraine in ENC1B get higher attendances. Georgia's attendances are a serious boost to their 6N ambitions but one look at a paltry 3k crowd is going to put anyone off letting Romania in.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby iul » Thu, 24 Mar 2016, 08:31

Because rugby is not that popular here and FRR doesn't do much to attract crowds either. They should organize some pre/post game concerts to bring in more people and showcase what we have.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby Canalina » Thu, 24 Mar 2016, 08:53

RugbyLiebe wrote:So I decided to ignore the Portugal numbers as off now

Attendance table ENC 1A 2016

Home Average (rounded numbers)
1. Georgia 23114
2. Spain 8750
3. Germany 7519
4. Romania 5667
5. Russia 2967
6. Portugal 700

Average: 8119

Away average (rounded numbers)
1. Romania 29671
2. Portugal 7441
3. Spain 7205
4. Russia 6000
5. Germany 5000
6. Georgia 2100

Average: 9570

Quite interesting, especially the Georgia away numbers. Maybe we can create a miracle to get the numbers from 2015 together, but I doubt it.

Most of 2015 attendances are reported on Rugby Europe match sheets http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/group-229.htm
They seem definitively lower than the 2016 ones

Spain Russia 6.500
Germany Georgia 3.000
Georgia Portugal 12.000
Romania Spain 1.500
Germany Russia 1.300
Russia Romania 1.500
Portugal Germany 700
Portugal Spain 2.000
Germany Romania 2.500
Romania Georgia 4.500
Russia Portugal 1.200
Spain Germany 2.000

no data for
Georgia Russia (the Mikheil Meskhi stadium was almost full, around 25.000 I'd say)
Spain Georgia (9.000 spectators according to newspaper Marca)
Portugal Romania
Last edited by Canalina on Thu, 24 Mar 2016, 09:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 24 Mar 2016, 09:00

Figaro wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
As the 6 Nations is the sport event with the highest average attendance worldwide of any sport events whether league or national teams or anything (68,968 in 2016)


I think this might be only if you exclude one-off "events" like the Superbowl, but it's certainly routinely the highest average attendance for a competition between national teams (although the 1994 football world cup averaged 69k per game; most football WCs average about 40k though).


Apparently 2016 was the only year which was under the FIFA WC 94 figures. Normally it is just over 69k. But we are talking about 30 to 40 people difference.
The Superbowl is part of the NFL season. The average attendance of the 2015 season was 68.216.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby Canalina » Thu, 24 Mar 2016, 09:20

RugbyLiebe wrote:So I decided to ignore the Portugal numbers as off now

Attendance table ENC 1A 2016

Home Average (rounded numbers)
1. Georgia 23114
2. Spain 8750
3. Germany 7519
4. Romania 5667
5. Russia 2967
6. Portugal 700

Average: 8119

ENC 2015-16 average home attendances, not considering Portugal-Russia and Portugal-Romania (due to absence of info)

1. Georgia 21.000
2. Spain 7.000
3. Romania 4.600
4. Germany 4.300
5. Russia 2.300
6. Portugal 1.100

Average: 6.700

The fifty thousands spectators of Georgia-Romania made the difference between 2015 and 2016

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 24 Mar 2016, 10:35

Canalina wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:So I decided to ignore the Portugal numbers as off now

Attendance table ENC 1A 2016

Home Average (rounded numbers)
1. Georgia 23114
2. Spain 8750
3. Germany 7519
4. Romania 5667
5. Russia 2967
6. Portugal 700

Average: 8119

ENC 2015-16 average home attendances, not considering Portugal-Russia and Portugal-Romania (due to absence of info)

1. Georgia 21.000
2. Spain 7.000
3. Romania 4.600
4. Germany 4.300
5. Russia 2.300
6. Portugal 1.100

Average: 6.700

The fifty thousands spectators of Georgia-Romania made the difference between 2015 and 2016


Not really because Georgia on the other hand threw away a higher attendance with the 2k capacity stadium against Germany.
But off course you are not wrong, will post some average numbers next week excluding Georgia.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 29 Mar 2016, 09:08

Attendance 2016

Average home attendance 2016 (the missing Portugal game is calculated with 700 visitors)
8119
without Georgia:
5120
Just Georgia:
23114



Attendance 2015
Average home attendance 2015 (the missing Portugal game is calculated with 700 visitors)
5347
without Georgia:
2716
Just Georgia:
18500



Attendance 2015-16 (the two missing Portugal game are calculated with 700 visitors each)
6753
without Georgia:
3849
Just Georgia:
21268



Conclusions:
The attendance in the ENC1A was up for 52%, without Georgia 89%, just Georgia: 25%
So Canalina is surprisingly wrong, the growth in Georgia is less than in the other nations.

Other nations growth from 2015 to 2016.
Romania: 89%
Russia: 120%
Spain: 50%
Germany: 232%
Portugal: -38% (but because of those two guessed-700-attendance-games not reliable).

So basically Romania is the perfect nation to look at, if you want to see the growth numbers between 2016 and 2015 with exact the same growth from 89%.
Both Russia and Germany come from really low numbers, while the Spanish and the Georgian numbers are probably still the most impressive.

I most confess, I'm quite surprised by all of this. Me too expected Georgia being the growth motor, with the others doing good, but not that good.
Comes out, that the real growing motors are Germany and then Russia. Next growth for 2017 should be Belgium, who will easily top the 960 attendance Portugal had 2015-16.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Tue, 29 Mar 2016, 09:51, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: ENC attendance thread

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 29 Mar 2016, 09:29

RugbyLiebe wrote:Attendance 2016

Average home attendance 2016 (the missing Portugal game is calculated with 700 visitors)
8119
without Georgia:
5120
Just Georgia:
23114



Attendance 2015
Average home attendance 2016 (the missing Portugal game is calculated with 700 visitors)
5347
without Georgia:
2716
Just Georgia:
18500



Attendance 2015-16 (the two missing Portugal game are calculated with 700 visitors each)
6753
without Georgia:
3849
Just Georgia:
21268



Conclusions:
The attendance in the ENC1A was up for 52%, without Georgia 89%, just Georgia: 25%
So Canalina is surprisingly wrong, the growth in Georgia is less than in the other nations.

Other nations growth from 2015 to 2016.
Romania: 89%
Russia: 120%
Spain: 50%
Germany: 232%
Portugal: -38% (but because of those two guessed-700-attendance-games not reliable).

So basically Romania is the perfect nation to look at, if you want to see the growth numbers between 2016 and 2015 with exact the same growth from 89%.
Both Russia and Germany come from really low numbers, while the Spanish and the Georgian numbers are probably still the most impressive.

I most confess, I'm quite surprised by all of this. Me too expected Georgia being the growth motor, with the others doing good, but not that good.
Comes out, that the real growing motors are Germany and then Russia. Next growth for 2017 should be Belgium, who will easily top the 960 attendance Portugal had 2015-16.


Those are some impressive numbers. Albeit from low bases. If I were RugbyEurope I would look at actively growing those numbers to say an average of 10,000 per games over the next 5 years.

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