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Last countries without rugby

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Canalina » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 07:53

Apparently, first ever test match on november 25 for Belize
Image

The fixed debut of Nauru and Tuvalu, instead, should have been moved. On november 11, the date fixed for their test match, there's now the Oceania 7s in Suva, with both Nauru and Tuvalu competing. So I hope the test match has been moved to the week after and not cancelled

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sat, 20 Oct 2018, 21:36

https://papiers-armenie.fr/2018/02/13/a ... nion-team/

It looks like Armenia has a new federation.
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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby NedRugby » Sun, 21 Oct 2018, 19:08

Well I really hope they are successful, doing it in a sustainable way.

Au temps du bloc soviétique, l’Arménie était championne de rugby en URSS.


I can hardly believe this. Were they really Soviet champions back in the day?

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 22 Oct 2018, 01:10

List of Soviet champions: http://www.rugbyarchive.net/Pagine/Over ... spx?ID=405 No Armenians listed... maybe another cup?
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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Mon, 22 Oct 2018, 12:46

RUBBISH and DISGRACE :!:

As I've mentioned many times
OUR NEIGHBORS are champions in BOAST'ing ... not rugby

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby NedRugby » Mon, 22 Oct 2018, 19:35

Yes. Your views about Armenians is well documented.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Canalina » Fri, 02 Nov 2018, 09:08

Nauru v Tuvalu, to be played next week according to an early season program, has been cancelled :cry:

It would have been the very first test match for both the nations

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby zzatelo » Fri, 09 Nov 2018, 21:30

Blurandski wrote:
victorsra wrote:but all Albanian clubs switched?


There was only one, they switched because the RE guy said that they needed more clubs to become a member, so RLE took them in because they're desperate.


"Desperate" let me tell something we have done everything we can to build rugby union in Albania ,the government wasn't a problem the Olympic Albanian committee as well willing to help for our schools program, Octavian Morariu was the guy ho have done everything possible for us to fail. So yes we were very desperate because the only thing we needed was some coaching certification so we couldn't teach rugby for the kids (you need to be a certified coach to be involved in a state sport program), not being a member we could have the courses, but we have reached a agreement with Montenegro federation to have the courses and the certificate there but this dude stopped everything, we have done the same thing with Croatian union federation and the result was the same. After all this we were very very "Desperate" Let me tell something after they learned that we have switched to League, "they" contacted us offering us what we have trying to have for 2 yeras, we are gentleman's so we decided to keep going forwards and keep the promises we made to RLEF.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Canalina » Fri, 09 Nov 2018, 22:11

Interesting witness from the inside, thanks for joining the forum

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby zzatelo » Sat, 10 Nov 2018, 14:19

Canalina wrote:Interesting witness from the inside, thanks for joining the forum



Thanks mate, it was interesting reading everything you have written about us.
Grazie mille , vorrei dirti che in passato abbiamo avuto dei contatti con Aquila rugby e Gran Sasso rugby per organizzare un allenamento con una selezione di giocatori Albanesi che giocano in Italia, ma poi e successo quello che e successo e de rimasto solo un progetto.

Actually we have 2 teams in Albania (we used to play union), and a third team Albania XV with Albanians players only that played for 3 years in Italy lower categories, but now the team doesn't exist for some financial problems, and they play rugby 7s in some tournaments in Italy.
We have contacts with more than 300 Albanian players/coaches that play union in Italy and France in different categories and ages. Right now we have the support of Olympic committee of Albania, that means that we are not giving up entirely from union (rugby 7s an Olympic sport for this reason we have their suport)
But something must change , union is losing the Balkans believe me , only Croatia have a established union base , Montenegro BosniaHercegovina Bulgaria Grecce and Turkey now League is taking more territory.


I want to give some info about Kosovo , they have a federation right now, and hope for them to have the support we didn't get. They have a woman team as well 2 established seniors teams and a kid team. I know them personally all the boys involved in rugby union in Kosovo they are working very hard to develope the game there and for all the efforts they have put in they deserve a chance.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Rugga » Mon, 12 Nov 2018, 19:10

zzatelo wrote:
Canalina wrote:Interesting witness from the inside, thanks for joining the forum



Thanks mate, it was interesting reading everything you have written about us.
Grazie mille , vorrei dirti che in passato abbiamo avuto dei contatti con Aquila rugby e Gran Sasso rugby per organizzare un allenamento con una selezione di giocatori Albanesi che giocano in Italia, ma poi e successo quello che e successo e de rimasto solo un progetto.

Actually we have 2 teams in Albania (we used to play union), and a third team Albania XV with Albanians players only that played for 3 years in Italy lower categories, but now the team doesn't exist for some financial problems, and they play rugby 7s in some tournaments in Italy.
We have contacts with more than 300 Albanian players/coaches that play union in Italy and France in different categories and ages. Right now we have the support of Olympic committee of Albania, that means that we are not giving up entirely from union (rugby 7s an Olympic sport for this reason we have their suport)
But something must change , union is losing the Balkans believe me , only Croatia have a established union base , Montenegro BosniaHercegovina Bulgaria Grecce and Turkey now League is taking more territory.


I want to give some info about Kosovo , they have a federation right now, and hope for them to have the support we didn't get. They have a woman team as well 2 established seniors teams and a kid team. I know them personally all the boys involved in rugby union in Kosovo they are working very hard to develope the game there and for all the efforts they have put in they deserve a chance.



So have we lost Albania entirely?

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby amz » Mon, 12 Nov 2018, 19:31

Hi zzatelo and welcome!

You've made me curious, what exactly Morariu did and what certification did you needed? I am asking because I know people and players from Bulgaria, Kosovo and Montenegro (one of their internationals played for my club) and I never heard of anything similar.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby zzatelo » Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 15:23

amz wrote:Hi zzatelo and welcome!

You've made me curious, what exactly Morariu did and what certification did you needed? I am asking because I know people and players from Bulgaria, Kosovo and Montenegro (one of their internationals played for my club) and I never heard of anything similar.


God if you know people from MN and Kosovo they for sure will know Marty Lustiano which was the guy in charge to help us build and develop the sport in Albania we was the guy ho contacted everyone.

Basically at that time we needed coaching certification level 1 (not the online one, needed by Albanian Education and Sport Ministry) we have made a request through our sport director (former Montenegro national team head coach) and he denied our request, i quote his words "Albania doesn't have a federation so they dosen't exist"
After that still through our sport director Marty we have reached a agreement with Montenegro federation to go there and have the course and coaches certification level 1 , everything was ok till the last moment wen Montenegro denied us this possibility, way??!! In a European federation
meeting the head of MN federation was speaking with this guy telling his wish to help us , and this guy tell MN president to not do it because his illegally. After that we tried the same thing with the Croatian they accepted, 1 day before the trip to Split our director called us telling that this guy have contacted the Croatian federation, repeating that we dont exist and we canceled eeverything and spotted everything again .So to be sincere with you mate this is the information given from our rugby director telling us this guy was personally involved to block everything, Marty (Albanian rugby director) is a well know guy in the Balkan region , he have helped start rugby union in Montenegro creating new teams in Serbia ,us and Kosovo as well , basically with those licenses we have lost a huge opportunity to spread the game in our schools system, and in countries like Albania you have one opportunity and we lose our. Let me tell something more after we converted into League we have recived and invitation for a meeting with the British embassy in Albania , they told us that the the RFU will come to Albania (the hotels was booked and the dates confirmed) to have thos courses and licenses , and this after we switched to league , do you think this is the seriousness that a organization like this must have??!

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby amz » Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 17:58

OK, after some quick search with google, as far as I understand there isn't a Rugby Union or Federation in Albania because you seem to lack the number of clubs required to form a national body, a Union or Federation.

According with World Rugby by laws a Union means every national Rugby Union for the time being in membership of World Rugby.

https://www.world.rugby/handbook/bye-laws/bye-law-1/

This means a Union/Federation can only be act in its own national territory and not abroad. National unions are constituted according with internal laws of each country and must have official recognition of local government and are solely responsible for governing Rugby’s sporting, technical and general organisation and implementation of all rugby related matters.

https://www.world.rugby/handbook/bye-laws/bye-law-14

For example Greece is now suspended because the national union does not have the recognition of Greek Government as a national rugby union/federation.

As for coaching, if I understood right, you wanted this:

https://coaching.worldrugby.org/?page=161&language=en

See first para: Coach of a group of players working under the guidance of a head coach, coaching co-ordinator or Union scheme (emphasize added)

Now maybe you found a head coach or coaching co-ordinator with necessary education in a neighbouring union but this enters in conflict with the rule that the Union shall act solely on their national territory.

Mind, Rugby Europe have less requirements than World Rugby for membership, there are countries that are members of RE but not of WR because they don't meet the requirements. See here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_Europe

So you need to get some local legal advice, form a Federation under the Albanian law, recognized by Albanian Government than re-apply for membership to RE.

I highly doubt Morariu have something personal with Albanian rugby but if a country like San Marino with 33k population is a member of RE than I think the issue is local and not at RE.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 19:10

Uh...You can attend certification in other countries that counts as WR certification.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby amz » Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 19:13

TheStroBro wrote:Uh...You can attend certification in other countries that counts as WR certification.

yes, but not in all countries I gather.

LE: also I know from some positions, courses etc you must be nominated by Unions.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby zzatelo » Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 22:22

amz wrote:OK, after some quick search with google, as far as I understand there isn't a Rugby Union or Federation in Albania because you seem to lack the number of clubs required to form a national body, a Union or Federation.

According with World Rugby by laws a Union means every national Rugby Union for the time being in membership of World Rugby.

https://www.world.rugby/handbook/bye-laws/bye-law-1/

This means a Union/Federation can only be act in its own national territory and not abroad. National unions are constituted according with internal laws of each country and must have official recognition of local government and are solely responsible for governing Rugby’s sporting, technical and general organisation and implementation of all rugby related matters.

https://www.world.rugby/handbook/bye-laws/bye-law-14

For example Greece is now suspended because the national union does not have the recognition of Greek Government as a national rugby union/federation.

As for coaching, if I understood right, you wanted this:

https://coaching.worldrugby.org/?page=161&language=en

See first para: Coach of a group of players working under the guidance of a head coach, coaching co-ordinator or Union scheme (emphasize added)

Now maybe you found a head coach or coaching co-ordinator with necessary education in a neighbouring union but this enters in conflict with the rule that the Union shall act solely on their national territory.

Mind, Rugby Europe have less requirements than World Rugby for membership, there are countries that are members of RE but not of WR because they don't meet the requirements. See here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_Europe

So you need to get some local legal advice, form a Federation under the Albanian law, recognized by Albanian Government than re-apply for membership to RE.

I highly doubt Morariu have something personal with Albanian rugby but if a country like San Marino with 33k population is a member of RE than I think the issue is local and not at RE.



"This means a Union/Federation can only be act in its own national territory and not abroad" we didnt want MN or Croatian be involved in Albania rugby , we were going there to have the course and licenses mate ,simple as that , and for our purposes was ok the Ministry it was willing to accept it. And this is something every nation part of RE can do.

We have all the information and a legal support mate and this support was from the Albanian Olympic Committe lawyer. And you dont need clubs to have federation but sport non profit organization registered , actually we didn't want to have a federation,just the coach licenses (we couldn'thave done that if we wanted, following the rules of our state by the way some countries have don it but is not the right thing morally to have a federation with 4-5 sport organization and only 2 teams),.

And yes you can have the CL in every country affiliated and recognize by RE, we have studied everything in 2 years mate after that we decided to move in this thing. Our request was simple to be certificated coaches that's all , if it is from Australia or Kanada or Montenegro.
I dont know mate maby something personal with Marty that was in charge of everything, we dont really know

Now is part of the past I have written here only to infor some of you that are very interested and willing to help spread the game, that we have tried without the little help we needed and failed.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby amz » Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 08:50

Sorry but I find hard to understand the situation. You said you don't want an Union but this is the sole vehicle to develop rugby locally. Otherwise what the Albanian state is reckoning? A group of persons without no organization? Sorry but this is not the way things works in both RE or WR. Every lawyer will tell you that you need a legal vehicle (NGO, Federation, Union, whatever is called) and to be recognized and act like a legal person.

I also can't make the connection with denying coaching certification. Did you needed one (1) coaching certification for a person or the right to issue for Albania coaching certification lvl 1 and to send the coaches in schools all over Albania ? Because to me looks like a different matter. I find very odd and difficult to understand that rugby in Montenegro, Bulgaria or Kosovo didn't had this issues (and I understand this guy Marty was there too) and Morariu have something personal against him or Albania.

Looking back on this thread, the issue was signaled before:

ragbicoach wrote: To deal with world rugby/rugby Europe you need a national union/federation. To create one of those is different from place to place. In Kosovo for any sport it is 5 clubs in 3 different locations. Once you have a union officially recognised by ministry of sport and/or national Olympic committee you can then try to start the WR/RE joining process. League will deal with anyone.


Kosovo made it and it is smaller than Albania:

ragbicoach wrote:On 12th September 2018 at the offices of the National Olympic Committee and under the auspices of the President of the NOC, the Kosovo Rugby Federation was officially formed. The founding clubs are The Bears RFC, Pristina; Balkan Lynx RFC, Pristina; Roosters RC, Pristina, Eagles RFC, Peja; and Trepca RC, Trepca.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby iul » Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 09:13

sounds like they were incompetent and they switched to mungoball because the mungoes would accept them no questions asked

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 09:58

amz wrote:Sorry but I find hard to understand the situation. You said you don't want an Union but this is the sole vehicle to develop rugby locally. Otherwise what the Albanian state is reckoning? A group of persons without no organization? Sorry but this is not the way things works in both RE or WR. Every lawyer will tell you that you need a legal vehicle (NGO, Federation, Union, whatever is called) and to be recognized and act like a legal person.


I stumbled about this as well and I have to say, that if for "morally reasons" (what????) the guys in Albania don't want to form a Union, the problem is with the guys in Albania. Now you can say that this German doesn't know about this kind of situations, but I actually know very well. In my state Union we couldn't issue official training licences accepted by the state for rugby until 5 years ago, because we didn't do the homework an Olympic Union needs to do.

I won't get in any details, but it is the right thing to do for Rugby Europe to deny everything official as long as this step is not to be made. If you are not even serious enough to form a Union, than maybe the rest isn't serious enough anyway. Everything else is just time-wasting both for Rugby Europe and for the Albanian officials. Do your homework, form a Union, apply. Everything else isn't leading anywhere in the long run, as the forming of a Union actually makes sure, that you are a legal entitiy, which isn't only for one guy/ a few guys.
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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby amz » Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 10:37

it's easier to blame on Morariu ;) C'mon, we've seen this movie before

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 12:37

Yep, to have a Union in RE is not a big deal. In fact none of the regional unions make it hard. More than this, zzatelo, you don't even need to really stop RL activities. Players can move freely, clubs can play both, split your season. If you for a 1 or 2-clubs Albanian Rugby Union you can structure your calendar properly. You can kickoff a national team playing the RE 7s (which is only 1 tournament in the bottom division). Take your time to field a XVs team.
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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Canalina » Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 16:56

Nice post Victorsra

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Canalina » Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 16:58

Canalina wrote:Apparently, first ever test match on november 25 for Belize
Image

The fixed debut of Nauru and Tuvalu, instead, should have been moved. On november 11, the date fixed for their test match, there's now the Oceania 7s in Suva, with both Nauru and Tuvalu competing. So I hope the test match has been moved to the week after and not cancelled

One week before Belize, Aruba will debut playing versus Curacao. So they write on facebook

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Canalina » Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 17:53

Yes, I realized just now that “one week before november 25” means this week

If the game is confirmed, there will be 25 test matches in the weekend: 17 men’s and 8 women’s

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