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Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 09:59

90% is a bit much.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby iul » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 13:20

thatrugbyguy wrote:90% is a bit much.

I know, but there's no realistic way to start a credible Euro without the 6Ns and 10% plus all the media attention rugby would get in the T2s is still way more than what we have now.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 13:33

60% is far more reasonable to me. 10% for each 6N.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby victorsra » Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 03:23

The idea of an Euro Championship played every 4 years is basically impossible.

Many reasons, but I can point some:

- 6 Nations would still be played. This means for everybody another competition in Europe with the same nations leading is just more of the same and does not worth the money (smart sports organizations avoid competitions that are similar because two of the same kind dilute the value);
- So, why would they scrap a fixture against the All Blacks or the Springboks to play most of the same teams they play every years?
- And why European clubs would accept another September/October international competition getting the players they pay? The RWC is already enough trubble for their calendar;
- And why the Home Nations would travel in a November as the Lions instead of hosting their own internationals? The great thing about the Lions for them is eaxctly that it is in the summer window;

In other words, zero chance of having money for that. And no calendar. The only way is to find a logical strategy of dealing with 6 Nations/REC relation and ownership issues.
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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Duke of Currie » Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 05:18

Until there is significant interest coming from countries with TV/corporate income streams and improved playing quality there will not be any change to the current 'money grab' which exists today. If WR actually wanted to make real changes in the game , they would
(i) not allow a global calendar to be structured in structured in such a way to insist on a Lions tour. Nowadays , tours are an out of date concept and are only being run as a commercial exercise for the teams taking part. If they wanted to spread the wealth , insist on games against the T2 teams instead of Super XV teams. If the Lions desperately want a game ,play it once a year at the end of the Autumn Internationals against the top team in the world.
(ii) Expand the European club tournaments to insist that T2 countries have teams which get automatic inclusion into the tournament. It is a smaller gulf of standards to span at club level than Test level and easily opens up the game for more TV markets. This is an easy thing to do and could be done from the season after next.
(iii) Cancel the summer tours and have a European tournament 2 years after the world cup. The intervening summers could be used for qualifying games for Euro's or WC or god forbid allow players a rest.
(iii) Reduce the number of teams who have automatic qualification into the WC , for example host and previous winner,. This would mean that the majority of 6N teams will have to play qualifying matches. Which either means that the 6N becomes a qualifying tournament or the 6N window for games becomes used for Euro/ WC qualifiers. Between the AI , Summer and 6N window there is more than enough time to play qualifying games , a few select matches against southern hemisphere countries and a lions select game if necessary. It is just not currently as lucrative as the existing set up.
We agree there is a gap between the 6N and the other nations but the risk the 6N teams have is that by restricting the growth of the game they are exacerbating the problem for short term gain. Money coming from other areas and stronger WR management will encourage the 6N to change their minds.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby iul » Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 06:30

victorsra wrote:The idea of an Euro Championship played every 4 years is basically impossible.

Many reasons, but I can point some:

- 6 Nations would still be played. This means for everybody another competition in Europe with the same nations leading is just more of the same and does not worth the money (smart sports organizations avoid competitions that are similar because two of the same kind dilute the value);
- So, why would they scrap a fixture against the All Blacks or the Springboks to play most of the same teams they play every years?
- And why European clubs would accept another September/October international competition getting the players they pay? The RWC is already enough trubble for their calendar;
- And why the Home Nations would travel in a November as the Lions instead of hosting their own internationals? The great thing about the Lions for them is eaxctly that it is in the summer window;

In other words, zero chance of having money for that. And no calendar. The only way is to find a logical strategy of dealing with 6 Nations/REC relation and ownership issues.

under my proposal they wouldn't cancel anything. They'd still tour as the Lions when they do now, they'd still host incoming tours in November. The euro would be an added competition in Sept-Oct. The 6Ns play against the SH nations every year, it doesn't seem to dampen their enthusiasm for the RWC.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby The Do » Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 23:25

Why not organise the Euro’s during the Lion’s tour? England, Wales etc usually send a second string squad on tour during the Lions tour. All you need is France and Italy to jump on board and calling themselves European champions a couple of time before the Home Nations will get a bit jealous and start sending teams.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby victorsra » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 01:31

They would have to cancel a whole November HOME series against All Blacks/Wallabies/Springboks/Pumas to make it possible. In money terms, they would swap All Blacks/Wallabies/Springboks/Pumas for matches against Georgia/Romania/Spain/Russia + more matches against the same 6N countries that they already play every year. And for a title that they would consider of second importance compared to the Six Nations - and, if they give value to it, they would be givng less value to the 6N by consequence.... convince your sponsors that these are good choices.

Why not organise the Euro’s during the Lion’s tour? England, Wales etc usually send a second string squad on tour during the Lions tour. All you need is France and Italy to jump on board and calling themselves European champions a couple of time before the Home Nations will get a bit jealous and start sending teams.


Why the French public would enjoy a competition against England "A", Wales "A"...? It would be a low point for them to celebrate a win against "A" teams of the Home Nations. Come on. Their Top 14 clubs would laugh of having to give their players for such crap.
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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby iul » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 06:15

victorsra wrote:They would have to cancel a whole November HOME series against All Blacks/Wallabies/Springboks/Pumas to make it possible. In money terms, they would swap All Blacks/Wallabies/Springboks/Pumas for matches against Georgia/Romania/Spain/Russia + more matches against the same 6N countries that they already play every year. And for a title that they would consider of second importance compared to the Six Nations - and, if they give value to it, they would be givng less value to the 6N by consequence.... convince your sponsors that these are good choices.

Why not organise the Euro’s during the Lion’s tour? England, Wales etc usually send a second string squad on tour during the Lions tour. All you need is France and Italy to jump on board and calling themselves European champions a couple of time before the Home Nations will get a bit jealous and start sending teams.


Why the French public would enjoy a competition against England "A", Wales "A"...? It would be a low point for them to celebrate a win against "A" teams of the Home Nations. Come on. Their Top 14 clubs would laugh of having to give their players for such crap.

They wouldn't have to cancel the November tests. They can simply play in Sept-Oct in the Euro and then host the incoming SH nations in November

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 10:29

The Do wrote:Why not organise the Euro’s during the Lion’s tour? England, Wales etc usually send a second string squad on tour during the Lions tour. All you need is France and Italy to jump on board and calling themselves European champions a couple of time before the Home Nations will get a bit jealous and start sending teams.


I suggested something similar a while ago, or at the very least using 'A' teams. The Lions years are a weird time for France, Italy and the South Hemisphere nations not involved with the tour.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby victorsra » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 14:56

They CAN'T play in September/October, it would make the Union colide with the clubs... October has Champions Cup. This is another battle. Once more, clubs PAY players' salaries. The problem is once more Top 14/Premiership. It is incredible how people forget this obvious problem.

Also, it is the same thing of suggesting the Euro Cup in September/October or the Lions in September/October. You are just suggesting to ad one more international competition during the clubs season.
Last edited by victorsra on Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 17:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby iul » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 15:34

victorsra wrote:The CAN'T play in September/October, it would make the Union colide with the clubs... October has Champions Cup. This is another battle. Once more, clubs PAY players' salaries. The problem is once more Top 14/Premiership. It is incredible how people forget this obvious problem.

Also, it is the same thing of suggesting the Euro Cup in September/October or the Lions in September/October. You are just suggesting to ad one more international competition during the clubs season.

They can play the RWC during sept-oct, so obviously, they can play an international competition during that period. The unions can fix their shit if they decide to play in a euro. They'll pay off the clubs if they have to.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby victorsra » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 17:17

No. They play the RWC exceptionaly in September/October and WR have an agreement about this that includes NO June Tests (only warm-up matches in August, as players start the season with the national teams and not with the clubs), NO November tests and half TRC in RWC years. Also the Champions Cup starts in november in RWC years because of the RWC.

They can't do this every year. Clubs have 6 and a half months without national teams (you can count). That's the current situation and to change it you need to clash with Top 14 and Premiership.
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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 17:32

You could easily host a Euros during the Lions tour window. Its already slightly longer which also helps get it finished in time.

If you could get a UK and French broadcaster to agree to show it you'd cover the costs easily and let the rest develop over time. Personally I think there is the demand there on top of the 6N as you would make it a different thing, a one nation hosted cup rather than a home/away league; but obviously the powers that be disagree.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby victorsra » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 17:47

Again, why the French would want to play England A, Wales A, Ireland A, instead of All Blacks, Wallabies, Springboks???? They currently do the second most valuable test series during the Lions year.

It is also not smart for the Six Nations Championship to have another similar competition.... it only goes against its own value.
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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Sables4EVA » Sun, 01 Apr 2018, 07:56

https://www.ruck.co.uk/meetings-planned ... elegation/

Most plausible option I have seen in ages.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 01 Apr 2018, 08:06

SHOULD BE April Fools' Day PIECE -- I've been writing those kind of jokes for years

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Sables4EVA » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 05:30

Yes. but with all the crazy suggestions and hopeful dreams on this thread it comes across as almost plausible.

:D :D :D

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 16:55

Has John Feehan stepped down as 6 Nations CEO in the worst possible moment for European Tier 2 movement? I say yes.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Thomas » Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 17:04


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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 08:42

According to Midi Olympique World Rugby and Rugby Europe are working on a European Championship http://www.lerugbynistere.fr/news/inter ... 181020.php

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 09:58

I always said that this is a much doable thing than 6N expansion.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 11:08

A Euro Championship is the stepping stone the continent needs. The only question then becomes about timing. There is a gap year between the World Cup and Lions tour which would be the most logical place to put it. I don’t know the best format though, the under 20’s format as ugly as it is is probably the best to use at present, it means REC teams getting at least 2 games against 6N opposition. You could do the tournament in about 23 days.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Blurandski » Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 11:13

The issue with doing it this year is that it’ll get completely overshadowed by the fifa World Cup. Doing it in the Lions year would be best imo. You’d have a full strength Italy/France/Scotland, and a strong England as well as very good Wales/Ireland sides. It would help with competitiveness. Also, the Lions year tours are the year of tours that the SH would be most willing to give up.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 11:32

Blurandski wrote:The issue with doing it this year is that it’ll get completely overshadowed by the fifa World Cup. Doing it in the Lions year would be best imo. You’d have a full strength Italy/France/Scotland, and a strong England as well as very good Wales/Ireland sides. It would help with competitiveness. Also, the Lions year tours are the year of tours that the SH would be most willing to give up.




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