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Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Horsehead » Tue, 09 May 2017, 09:51

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:The Scotsman is very close to and uncritical of the SRU and Pro12. I suspect they may have been asked to put this information into the public domain as a negotiating tool against the Italians to try and get Italy to pay for continued involvement in the Pro12.

There can be no prospect of the US leapfrogging Georgia and Romania and replacing Italy surely.


I wish this were true but I bet if the 6Ns were to expand they would prefer North America. There is no reason why they couldn't bring in relegation and promotion and do both

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Thomas » Tue, 16 May 2017, 11:50

HERE'S THE DRAW for 2018 and 2019 competitions:

2018 Championship
3/4 February

Wales v Scotland, Saturday 2.15pm

France v Ireland, Saturday 4.45pm

Italy v England, Sunday 3.00pm

10/11 February

Ireland v Italy, Saturday 2.15pm

England v Wales, Saturday 4.45pm

Scotland v France, Sunday 3.00pm

23/24 February

France v Italy, Friday 8.00pm*

Ireland v Wales, Saturday 2.15pm

Scotland v England, Saturday 4.45pm

Advertisement

10/11 March

Ireland v Scotland, Saturday 2.15pm

France v England, Saturday 4.45pm

Wales v Italy, Sunday 3.00pm

17 March

Italy v Scotland, Saturday 12.30pm

England v Ireland, Saturday 2.45pm

Wales v France, Saturday 5.00pm

*Venue for this match will be announced at a later stage

2019 Championship
1/2 February

France v Wales, Friday 8.00pm

Scotland v Italy, Saturday 2.15pm

Ireland v England, Saturday 4.45pm

9/10 February

Scotland v Ireland, Saturday 2.15pm

Italy v Wales, Saturday 4.45pm

England v France, Sunday 3.00pm

23/24 February

France v Scotland, Saturday 2.15pm

Wales v England, Saturday 4.45pm

Italy v Ireland, Sunday 3.00pm

9/10 March

Scotland v Wales, Saturday 2.15pm

England v Italy, Saturday 4.45pm

Ireland v France, Sunday 3.00pm

16 March

Italy v France, Saturday 12.30pm

Wales v Ireland, Saturday 2.45pm

England v Scotland, Saturday 5.00pm

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby iul » Wed, 24 May 2017, 16:18

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugbyun ... omania/amp
Eddie Jones is in favor of promotion and relegation via playoff :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby snapper37 » Wed, 24 May 2017, 16:39

iul wrote:https://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/808392/Eddie-Jones-England-rugby-Six-Nations-promotion-relegation-Romania/amp
Eddie Jones is in favor of promotion and relegation via playoff :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


It should go back to being a 5 nations competition , Drop Italy to the 6 Nations B group. resulting in a more competitive B group,,removing Georgia will just weaken the comp. ,

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby iul » Wed, 24 May 2017, 16:43

snapper37 wrote:
iul wrote:https://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/808392/Eddie-Jones-England-rugby-Six-Nations-promotion-relegation-Romania/amp
Eddie Jones is in favor of promotion and relegation via playoff :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


It should go back to being a 5 nations competition , Drop Italy to the 6 Nations B group. resulting in a more competitive B group,,removing Georgia will just weaken the comp. ,

Nah, it should be the other way around... make it 7N. That would reduce the risk of one of the established nations getting relegated.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Wed, 24 May 2017, 17:18

snapper37 wrote:removing Georgia will just weaken the comp. ,

Standard quote of rejecting promotion. "You are too productive to let you go in the office upstairs" "You are needed here, loosing you will be bad for us" "you are best in our team we cant let you go" "Our productivity will fall as soon as you leave" oh this oh that. Bull shit!

There is no way 6N to open the door of the closed shop. They should look forward for European championship, with Qualification system and developing, not to become mossy.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Silver Fox » Wed, 24 May 2017, 19:50

iul wrote:
snapper37 wrote:
iul wrote:https://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/808392/Eddie-Jones-England-rugby-Six-Nations-promotion-relegation-Romania/amp
Eddie Jones is in favor of promotion and relegation via playoff :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


It should go back to being a 5 nations competition , Drop Italy to the 6 Nations B group. resulting in a more competitive B group,,removing Georgia will just weaken the comp. ,

Nah, it should be the other way around... make it 7N. That would reduce the risk of one of the established nations getting relegated.

Or adopt the Rugby Europe play off system, a single match hosted by the higher placed team.
Portugal just experienced that this also is a recipe for stabilizing the composition of the leagues.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Horsehead » Thu, 25 May 2017, 10:23

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:
snapper37 wrote:removing Georgia will just weaken the comp. ,

Standard quote of rejecting promotion. "You are too productive to let you go in the office upstairs" "You are needed here, loosing you will be bad for us" "you are best in our team we cant let you go" "Our productivity will fall as soon as you leave" oh this oh that. Bull shit!

There is no way 6N to open the door of the closed shop. They should look forward for European championship, with Qualification system and developing, not to become mossy.


There will never be a European Championship, there just isn't room in the calendar unless the 6Ns or Lions tours were replaced and they are both way too lucrative for that to ever happen.

The answer is simple, as Eddie has said just have a play off, just like we just saw between Belgium and Portugal.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 30 Jun 2017, 15:03

Bernard Laporte to Luxembourg media during Rugby Europe meeting there:
- Do you support a promotion/relegation system in the 6 Nations?
- No. Italy for example does everything possible to survive, we must help them and extend the tournament to nations able to compete (Georgia, Romania).
http://www.lessentiel.lu/fr/sports/autr ... --18206049

If his intention is to convince Rugby Europe to vote for their 2023 Rugby World Cup campaign, that should be a big no then...

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 30 Jun 2017, 15:54

So the FFR supports expanding the Six Nations. Great news!

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 30 Jun 2017, 16:13

I'm not even sure whether he mentioned Georgia and Romania or that was a commentary from the journalist to his readers... I don't read that sentence in the same positive sense as you.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Fri, 30 Jun 2017, 17:04

I will take it as a positive. Laporte could easily have ended his answer on saying he didn't want Italy relegated. But he chose to mention expansion.

Georgia did itself and the REC nations a favour with its performance and scorline in Argentina I would say.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bolaroid » Wed, 05 Jul 2017, 16:10

I wonder whether South Africa are new favourites to join the Six Nations now their teams are heading to Europe :?:

That might be Georgia's best chance of entry, because no one would want a 7 Nations with one team having no opponent that weekend.

An 8 Nations would surely be the go-to, with Georgia added to salve guilt.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 05 Jul 2017, 16:52

That's certainly stupid enough to be a rugby administrators plan.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 07 Jul 2017, 11:37

"#France2023: a project for Europe"

"Bernard Laporte made the most to defend the idea of an 8 Nations tournament and the expansion of world elite"

"To support his presentation, Laporte talked about an 8 Nations tournament to allow Georgia, Romania, maybe even Russia, to access the highest international level. 'Ten major nations sharing all titles for thirty years, it's no longer possible', he claimed. 'We must help Canada, USA to grow. It's not watching each other and saying 'everything is fine among us' that we're gonna develop rugby. 2023 RWC in France will increase revenues for World Rugby, therefore enabling rugby promotion in Europe and in the rest of the world"

"For 2023 France assures to international institutions a turnout of 271 million pounds, plus a share of the revenues. He insisted that eliminated teams could stay in France during the whole competition in exchange of action to support amateur rugby or promotional action in departements and regions. He assured that every qualified nation would benefit of a base camp to leave only on match day".

"And finally, as the icing of the cake, #France2023 assures that for the sake of rugby promotion in the whole world, it would give for free TV rights in emerging nations".

https://www.ffr.fr/FFR/Organisation/Act ... r-l-Europe

Sorry if I'm too cynic, but it sounds to me like a lot of blah, blah, blah.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby ihateblazers » Fri, 07 Jul 2017, 11:40

Sounds better than come and have some craic and we'll try to milk the Irish Americans...

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 07 Jul 2017, 11:48

Sure, I'm not saying others do better. France was the only 6N team to keep the plug with U18 Rugby Europe tournament and the only one against Spain exclusion from W6N, but if Laporte was so keen on supporting Georgia and Romania and secure their votes he could rush a test match against them just like he has tried to hold a fourth test match in November. Especially when he wants a fully centrally contracted French team.

This speech only tries to lure four votes from World Rugby Council: two from Rugby Europe, and one each from Georgia and Romania.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby ihateblazers » Fri, 07 Jul 2017, 12:16

I think Georgia could frighten France. That might be why they're avoiding them haha... But yeah he should put action to his words. Host Georgia/Romania and tour USA/Canada/Japan.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 07 Jul 2017, 12:33

Armchair Fan wrote:This speech only tries to lure four votes from World Rugby Council: two from Rugby Europe, and one each from Georgia and Romania.


Well that's the only thing for certain. But at least somebody IS trying to lure their votes. Normally they are ignored. This alone is a step in the right direction.
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Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 07 Jul 2017, 12:40

It may very well just be politics but at the same time it's the first time I've seen a world cup bid actively talk about genuinely growing the game outside it's traditional stronghold. Free TV rights to emerging nations could do serious wonders also. I've generally been against the French 2023 bid because they hosted it in 2007 but if this is the offer they are placing on the table it's going to be hard to resist. Last World Cup there the smallest stadium used was about 35,000 and if memory serves total tickets sales were about 92%.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby olivier » Fri, 07 Jul 2017, 14:02

The financial argument MUST kill the Irish bid. In the fairest world, France would win by 90%.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Horsehead » Fri, 07 Jul 2017, 15:20

So this begs the question were South Africa to join the 6 Nations how would you like to see it restructured and how do you think it will be?

What I would like to see is an annual EMEA competition played in tiers with relegation/promotion between the tiers. under the second tier would be regional tiers in a pyramid structure to avoid travel costs for the smaller nations.

I'd like to see a top tier of 10 teams split into 2 groups for example

Group 1
England
Scotland
Wales
Italy
Romania

Group 2
Ireland
South Africa
France
Georgia
Spain

teams play the other teams in their group home or away for 4 games each, 2 home, 2 away.

Then A1 plays B1 home and away for the title. A2 plays B2 home and away for 3rd etc. the loser of A5 vs B5 home and away is relegated.

Each team plays 6 games (one more than current in Europe but that is achievable I believe), each team gets 3 home games, all teams get a pathway to the top, we get the exciting climax of finals.

I think this would be a great tournament and also know this will never happen. Far more likely is that SA are just added to the 6 to make 7Ns with no regards for T2
Last edited by Horsehead on Fri, 07 Jul 2017, 16:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby 4N » Fri, 07 Jul 2017, 15:41

Surely Argentina would follow South Africa if they went "all in" on Europe. Remember they tried to do something similar in the mid 2000s, even offering to play home matches in Spain. The 6N weren't keen at the time. Presumably things change if the Boks move however.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 13 Jul 2017, 19:22

Armchair Fan wrote:"#France2023: a project for Europe"

"Laporte talked about an 8 Nations tournament to allow Georgia, Romania, maybe even Russia, to access the highest international level.


I had missed this news. It's awesome!

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sun, 16 Jul 2017, 17:00

Pichot making it clear he will be fighting for expansion of the 6N, Rugby Championship and ARC. Or at least for them to stop being closed shops.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... oots-suit/

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