Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby 4N » Sun, 16 Jul 2017, 17:37

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:Pichot making it clear he will be fighting for expansion of the 6N, Rugby Championship and ARC. Or at least for them to stop being closed shops.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... oots-suit/


Very good comments overall (and awful proofreading). I especially like the mention of Mexico in the ARC. Obviously they'll have to earn it though and competition from the likes of Colombia will be strong.

Posts: 385
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 16 Jul 2017, 21:43

That part was sort of wack for me. However a second ARC division (Trophy). I'd like to see a U20 competition and a women's competition.

Posts: 933
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 16 Jul 2017, 23:32

4N wrote:
Bruce_ma_goose wrote:Pichot making it clear he will be fighting for expansion of the 6N, Rugby Championship and ARC. Or at least for them to stop being closed shops.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... oots-suit/


Very good comments overall (and awful proofreading). I especially like the mention of Mexico in the ARC. Obviously they'll have to earn it though and competition from the likes of Colombia will be strong.


Could always include both. Just split it into North/South pools. So have the USA, Canada, Mexico and Colombia in the 'North' and Chile, Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina in the South.

I do like the idea of growing the RC. I tend to think that the likes of Japan and the USA would be SANZAAR's preferred expansion Marketa.

Posts: 2629
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby victorsra » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 01:07

I think it would be good a second division for the Americas Rugby Championship, with a playoff between top division's 6th and second division's champions, like the Rugby Europe Championship.

My idea would be a second division (Americas Trophy) with 3 groups, thinking about travel issues and game levels + Finals in June/July:

Group Phase (1 home + 1 away matches)
Ex:
South: Paraguay, Peru, Ecuador
North: Colombia, Venezuela, Mexico
Insular: Guyana, Trinidad Tobago, Cayman

June/July Finals: ARC 6th, South Winners, North Winners, Insular Winners (semifinals + final or round robbin in a single venue)
Ex: Chile, Paraguay, Colombia, Guyana
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 1796
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 19:00
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Coloradoan » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 02:10

victorsra wrote:I think it would be good a second division for the Americas Rugby Championship, with a playoff between top division's 6th and second division's champions, like the Rugby Europe Championship.

My idea would be a second division (Americas Trophy) with 3 groups, thinking about travel issues and game levels + Finals in June/July:

Group Phase (1 home + 1 away matches)
Ex:
South: Paraguay, Peru, Ecuador
North: Colombia, Venezuela, Mexico
Insular: Guyana, Trinidad Tobago, Cayman

June/July Finals: ARC 6th, South Winners, North Winners, Insular Winners (semifinals + final or round robbin in a single venue)
Ex: Chile, Paraguay, Colombia, Guyana


I also would love to see a full Americas structure, but I'd rather just see a 4 team 2nd division with Mexico, Colombia, Paraguay and Caymans/Guyana and then split into North America and South America below that. I think Mexico and Colombia need to be playing better teams to continue their progress.

Posts: 2968
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 03:26

I think ultimately it's in the best interests of the entire rugby community if there is parity across all the regions in terms of competition format for international tournaments. Essentially follow the 6 Nations / Rugby Europe format, but with promotion and relegation of course. Americas is already doing it and now Africa has also replicated the same structure, all that's needed is for Asia/Oceania and the Rugby Championship to fall into line. Once that structure is in place there will be a lot more stability in terms of calendar for all rugby nations. We need to get to a stage where at least the top 40 teams in the world are playing a minimum of 8 tests matches a year IMO.

Posts: 253
Joined: Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 09:56
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 06:33

We are very close to have 2 REC teams above Italy in ranking: Georgia is 12th &Romania 15th while Italy is 14th.Will be very hard to beat Pacific Nations because they will go for those ranking points also but is a gold chance for Romania to surpass Italy. Spain & Russia can come very close also. With 2 teams above Italy is the right moment to negotiate more tests for REC nations. I don't believe in an open 6N but i do believe in more tests or even in a European competition every 2 or 4 years.

User avatar
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu, 17 Jul 2014, 10:29
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Horsehead » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 08:33

Why do you not believe in an open 6N? Surely that is the best thing for rugby in Europe

Posts: 253
Joined: Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 09:56
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 08:37

Horsehead wrote:Why do you not believe in an open 6N? Surely that is the best thing for rugby in Europe


I'm not saying is not OK,it is very OK, i just don't believe it will happen anytime soon.

Posts: 636
Joined: Thu, 16 Jul 2015, 17:26
National Flag:
GeorgiaGeorgia

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 09:52

Bogdan is speaking reality, 6N is closed shop, nobody will expand it at least for 10 years. But European championship every 4 years will be great, 6N + REC, 12 teams in 2 groups, between every RWC during Summer in UK and France.

1st:
England
Ireland
Wales
Georgia
Russia
Germany

2nd
France
Scotland
Italy
Romania
Spain
Belgium

Very nice way to progress Rugby in Europe. European championship with broadcasting world wide, with European cup for winner. Like UEFA.

Posts: 576
Joined: Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:40
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Thomas » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 10:07

As I mentioned in a previous post, this is all very well and good but it up to the TV sponsors and the people writing the cheques, is all very well for Pichot to want to open up a private competition but it all depends what happens with the TV and image rights etc which come up for renewal in 2020 I think. that is where his powers of persuasion and negotiation will come in handy.

User avatar
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu, 17 Jul 2014, 10:29
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Horsehead » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 10:45

I still believe that if South Africa were interested in joining it would be opened up tomorrow

Posts: 253
Joined: Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 09:56
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 10:53

Horsehead wrote:I still believe that if South Africa were interested in joining it would be opened up tomorrow

If need it they kick Italy out & bring in Boks with the speed of light. But Oaks&Lelos aren't anywhere near Boks let's be honest :).

User avatar
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu, 17 Jul 2014, 10:29
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Horsehead » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 11:01

Bogdan_DC wrote:
Horsehead wrote:I still believe that if South Africa were interested in joining it would be opened up tomorrow

If need it they kick Italy out & bring in Boks with the speed of light. But Oaks&Lelos aren't anywhere near Boks let's be honest :).


I think they would just add SA to make it 7 nations, I don't think they would kick Italy out

I'd much rather Oaks or Lelos were added and they will not get as good as the boks unless they are given opportunities

Posts: 253
Joined: Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 09:56
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 11:35

I just say "if needed it" with a grasp of sarcasm. I don't like the idea of Italy being kicked out, i want more nations to prosper not to replace one with another. And also i think Italy is doing well lately. At least in the last game i saw them vs Australia they played very well.

User avatar
Posts: 535
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 18:54

Before adding Japan to the Rugby Championship, the Sunwolves must improve.

About the Americas, don't forget travel costs are prohibitively expensive.
Instead of a home-and-away second division, I would prefer a one-week tournament at a single city.

Posts: 2629
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby victorsra » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 19:15

If a team travel once and receives one match there isn't more substancial costs, it is one travel anyway for everybody.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 175
Joined: Fri, 24 Apr 2015, 15:12
Location: Amsterdam
National Flag:
GeorgiaGeorgia

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby sandro » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 21:47

European championship would be the fairest and most acceptable solution, but the clubs will never allow more tests. So that js out of the question. We have to push for expansion+promotion. Changing things is always tough but the ball is rolling so changes are invetable.

Posts: 2629
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby victorsra » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 22:20

For me the easiest way is to have World Rugby and/or Rugby Europe as the 7th partner of the 6N Ltd, offering 2 non-core teams in a 7-weeks competition (the same number os weeks we have now), but with some players welfare policy (maybe a rule limiting the number of matches a player can be selected). The worst of the 2 non-core teams could face a relegation playoff against RE Championship champions. And that is it.

Nobody will make the current 6N to vote to be excluded from their own tournament, as they are partners.

And I hope the Springboks don't move, otherwise it is the end of the dream for the rest of Europe to be in the tournament.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

User avatar
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon, 21 Sep 2015, 15:38
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bolaroid » Sun, 23 Jul 2017, 01:47

Horsehead wrote:I think they would just add SA to make it 7 nations, I don't think they would kick Italy out

I'd much rather Oaks or Lelos were added and they will not get as good as the boks unless they are given opportunities

These teams really need to join the Pro 12. Kick some ass there, and prove themselves able to hang. Adding a team to get pounded for 17 years does them no favours, that said I wouldn't object to Georgia joining an 8N with SA.

Posts: 201
Joined: Sun, 31 Aug 2014, 11:36
National Flag:
PakistanPakistan

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby jservuk » Sun, 24 Sep 2017, 13:09

Yet another reason why not expanding is the 6N is counter-productive to the long term growth.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... onsor-2018

The article is about how the 6N is struggling (surprisingly) to find a suitable replacement for current sponsors RBS.

One of the reasons it speculates is that big US sponsors see limited exposure in a competition that is played "only in western Europe". I would suggest it's more accurate to describe it as British Isles + France and Italy, given that western Europe extends from Lisbon to Vienna.

Expansion to 2 or 3 more would mitigate this argument.

Posts: 2629
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby victorsra » Sun, 24 Sep 2017, 14:51

That is an interesting development...
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 8
Joined: Sun, 05 Feb 2017, 15:38
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Higgik » Sun, 24 Sep 2017, 17:32

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:Bogdan is speaking reality, 6N is closed shop, nobody will expand it at least for 10 years. But European championship every 4 years will be great, 6N + REC, 12 teams in 2 groups, between every RWC during Summer in UK and France.

1st:
England
Ireland
Wales
Georgia
Russia
Germany

2nd
France
Scotland
Italy
Romania
Spain
Belgium

Very nice way to progress Rugby in Europe. European championship with broadcasting world wide, with European cup for winner. Like UEFA.

Like this idea, but would slightly change it to be only 10 teams, with top 4 teams not in 6N qualifying.

I had a way of developing 6N, with a similar format.

Div A top 5 teams
Eng, Ire, Scot, Wal, Fra
Div B next 5 teams
Georgia, Italy, Romania, Spain, Russia

Play home or away in group, then 1A v 3B, 2A v 2B, 3A v 1B, 4A v 5A, e.g. Eng v Rom, Ire v Italy, Scot v Georg, Wal v Fra.

Winners progress to semi finals, while the losers play off for place in div A.
Using example,
Semi finals Eng v Wal, Ire v Scot and so on
Play offs Fra v Rom, Georg v Italy, winners into ply off final for final place in div A, Fra v Georg.

This way the div B teams get to play together at a similar level and get used to being competitive, then they get the opportunity to play at least 2 matches v the top ranked teams, helping them to develop the skills to become more competitive.

Posts: 385
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 24 Sep 2017, 17:44

jservuk wrote:Yet another reason why not expanding is the 6N is counter-productive to the long term growth.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... onsor-2018

The article is about how the 6N is struggling (surprisingly) to find a suitable replacement for current sponsors RBS.

One of the reasons it speculates is that big US sponsors see limited exposure in a competition that is played "only in western Europe". I would suggest it's more accurate to describe it as British Isles + France and Italy, given that western Europe extends from Lisbon to Vienna.

Expansion to 2 or 3 more would mitigate this argument.


No, they have a deal on the table, they just thought they'd get even more money. Sometimes a good deal is a good deal, they have a good deal on the table. So RBS was like no thanks because no one in the press would call it the RBS 6 Nations in match reports...like fuck me.

Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun, 20 Apr 2014, 16:57
Location: Leicester
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 24 Sep 2017, 19:11

RBS were always going to pull out because its a state owned bank and was only honouring a contract from before the bail out.

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], WarBomb and 5 guests