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Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Scorpion » Tue, 28 Nov 2017, 05:17

rey200 wrote:good idea. But we have to take into account: for Scotland and Wales the England matchup is very important. Considering this, my take is following:

Islands Group:

England
Ireland
Scotland
Wales

Continental Group:

France
Italy
REC1
REC2


Would be nice if Ireland & REC2 will switch pools

A: Eng, Sco, Wales, REC 2
B: Fra, Ire, Ita, REC 1

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby ihateblazers » Tue, 28 Nov 2017, 11:35

Should we break down what steps should be taken in order to facilitate expansion of 6N/European rugby and to pave the way for sustained growth?

First of all in my opinion Italy must stop funding Zebre and Treviso or at least fully funding them and switch to top ups for national squad players. Those remaining funds should be going towards domestic development instead. As a fairly established rugby nation, Italy should be aiming for overall domestic growth rather than top down growth from the national team.

Secondly, the ENC and Rugby Europe to put forward a comprehensive long term vision and action plan to the 6N committee regarding a) joining the Pro 14 or establishing a European club comp b) what an expanded European national game would look like and the benefits it could bring to the 6 Nations as a whole.

Reminding the 6N that whilst it is true that it is not their duty to grow the game in Europe or anywhere else in the world, they do control the international calendar and they do receive more funding from world rugby than tier 2 and the rest of the world combined. So I would argue that if they don't want the responsibility of assisting tier 2, then go ahead, don't open up the 6 nations, but don't hoard all the money, and don't pick and choose your international window fixtures.

a) Teams will be franchised and sold to private ownership (these can be clubs, multiple clubs, new teams) with the aim of providing high quality rugby regardless of the nationality of players to grow the market. I would look at the Basketball Euroleague as a case study.
b) by adding plan A with the addition of Georgia to the 6N (to begin with) or a European Championship, the investment opportunities will grow in the ENC nations, aiding growth as well as long term competitiveness. The improvement of Georgia between 2007-2017 has been massive and the rest of ENC are not that far behind.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby kearnc25 » Tue, 28 Nov 2017, 15:06

Bogdan_DC wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:
4N wrote:Italy isn't a big rugby nation. I question if the national team's attendances would have grown without 6N participation.

Pure ignorance.


He is 100% right though. They wouldn't have. And that's the exact reason the 6 Nations need to be more open to grow our beloved sport.


So from where did you know that? And actually who got great club rugby crowds except UK&France? Even the big guys from South didn't have so many full house games.And anyway i say the same thing to open up the 6N BUT not to destroy Italy.



Ireland also has fairly big attendances.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 28 Nov 2017, 15:22

kearnc25 wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:
4N wrote:Italy isn't a big rugby nation. I question if the national team's attendances would have grown without 6N participation.

Pure ignorance.


He is 100% right though. They wouldn't have. And that's the exact reason the 6 Nations need to be more open to grow our beloved sport.


So from where did you know that? And actually who got great club rugby crowds except UK&France? Even the big guys from South didn't have so many full house games.And anyway i say the same thing to open up the 6N BUT not to destroy Italy.



Ireland also has fairly big attendances.


Yes, Ireland also.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Sables4EVA » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 07:25

I have said this before, I think trying to break into the 6N is a wasted effort. The best option is to create another tournament that has so much to offer that it tempts the 6N club, even if just Italy to start with.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 07:48

European championship every 2 years between world cups will be just perfect. First step is to attract France and Italy.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 09:30

Bogdan_DC wrote:European championship every 2 years between world cups will be just perfect. First step is to attract France and Italy.


Exactly my thoughts. Scheduled in Lion's Tour years. If our beloved Island nations want, they can still send their official national sides.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 13:42

Maybe a Russian user can enlighten us, but do I understand Wales A is expected to play either Russia, Georgia, Romania or Germany before REC 2018? https://rugger.info/europe/news/17457
REC 2018 never happened. Please respect my beliefs

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby armchair_expert » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 18:41

Armchair Fan wrote:Maybe a Russian user can enlighten us, but do I understand Wales A is expected to play either Russia, Georgia, Romania or Germany before REC 2018? https://rugger.info/europe/news/17457

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... y-13964222
“You’ve got Georgia, Romania, Russia, Germany, those type of countries.

“Instead of just looking at A teams, can we look at it elsewhere?”

the tone of these words suggests it is not going to happen

they will play RGC 1404 in an exciting showdown at Eirias Park, Colwyn Bay

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 19:00

OK, thanks. It's a shame, because Russia often plays something in January to prepare REC.
REC 2018 never happened. Please respect my beliefs

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 19:36

Just to be correct Georgia is performing pretty well. GRU must place at least 1 team in PRO14 to continue development. They really have talented players both in front and back. Some really good Georgian backs are comming up.

European championship every 4 years between RWC will be great.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Sables4EVA » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 06:05

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:European championship every 2 years between world cups will be just perfect. First step is to attract France and Italy.


Exactly my thoughts. Scheduled in Lion's Tour years. If our beloved Island nations want, they can still send their official national sides.


This is exactly what I am talking about. FIRA can take control of it but will need to make it attractive somehow either in prize money or something. If one of the 6N teams takes it seriously the others will follow.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby tellchar » Sat, 03 Feb 2018, 23:25

European championship is the key to increase a popularity of rugby in European countries outside 6N. It should be a five-week tournament for 12 (3 pools of 4), with 3 pool matches, semis and the final. 6Nations would be qualified automatically, and the 12 unions from today's REC and RET would be fighting for other 6 spots in 2 pools of 6, 10 matches in two year-cycle. So there would be no today's REC and RET, but EuroCahamps qualifications like in other sports. And after the EuroChamps teams from REC and RET would play in 2-years World Cup qualifications.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Duke of Currie » Sun, 04 Feb 2018, 11:17

Would follow on Tellchar's idea and have 4 groups of 3. Within the 7 week window , you could have each group with 4 home and away matches , the winner of each group plays for the Championship , second place for the Challenge Cup and third place for the bowl. Guarantees 5 matches for each country , 6 if you get to a final and at least two home games. Groups would be picked upon World Rankings for fairness

There would be a free week afterwards with a semi final weekend across the competitions , then a finals weekend , each taking place in a particular city.
Cities would tender for hosting the weekends , for example one year the Championship semis would be in Paris , the Challenge Cup in Cardiff and the Bowl semis in Bilbao. All three finals would be played over a weekend in a single venue , this example would be Rome.

All TV and gate receipts would be divided across the 12 competing nations from the semi and final round matches. Using the Premiership football model , 50% of the total gets divided across the 12 nations , the rest gets split on tiered basis depending on the finish within the respective three competitions.

The competition could be used to determine the relegation / promotion between this competition and the tier below , with losing semi finalists in the Bowl being relegated and replaced by developing nations. Additionally , depending on the number of places in the World Cup allocated to Europe , then this competition could be used to decide the qualifying also.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 09:38

I wonder if world rugby has considered threatening to not enforce regulation 9 for the 6 nations unions in all test windows if they do not cooperate in some fashion. Also refuse to sanction cross border European competition such as the champions cup involving 6 nations owned teams and the pro 14.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Thomas » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 10:35

Interview with Pichot on the 28th of January interesting comments on 6N

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/int ... ate-moment

2016 Article calling for the reformation of 6N -

https://www.economist.com/blogs/gamethe ... ix-nations

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bolaroid » Sat, 10 Feb 2018, 15:30

Performances like that first half from Italy v Ireland are one of the principal reasons many fans are resistant to expansion.

In a competitive sense it's a wasted fixture.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby argie » Sat, 10 Feb 2018, 15:33

My Good. Italy don't show progress.
Why?.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby victorsra » Sat, 10 Feb 2018, 18:16

They do.

Ireland 38-34 Italy yesterday in the U20s Six Nations. Italy played almost all the match with 14 players.
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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby rey200 » Sat, 10 Feb 2018, 20:13

Scotland U 20 - France U20 19-69. Will they kick out the Scots then? :-P

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Sat, 10 Feb 2018, 20:25

Not often football leads the way, but this upcoming uefa League of Nations thing could be an interesting, more realistic than 6N expansion, blueprint for continental rugby (halving divisions, constant flux, etc.)?

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bolaroid » Sat, 10 Feb 2018, 22:42

rey200 wrote:Scotland U 20 - France U20 19-69. Will they kick out the Scots then? :-P

Not for kicking Italy out, just explaining why fans might not want "two Italys" in an expanded tournament.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Scoob » Sat, 10 Feb 2018, 23:26

I find it quite ironic when people with big control over tournaments like 6 nations and tri nations games come out and say that there not responsible for growing world rugby by involving Samoa fiji in tri nations or Romania Georgia in the 6 nations.Then they come out and have games in Japan,USA and super rugby games in Fiji and come up with a huge lot of dribble about how great they are for taking the games to these countries and developing and showcasing rugby to the general audience.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 05:27

Scoob wrote:I find it quite ironic when people with big control over tournaments like 6 nations and tri nations games come out and say that there not responsible for growing world rugby by involving Samoa fiji in tri nations or Romania Georgia in the 6 nations.Then they come out and have games in Japan,USA and super rugby games in Fiji and come up with a huge lot of dribble about how great they are for taking the games to these countries and developing and showcasing rugby to the general audience.


They're only coming here for paydays, not for development.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 12 Feb 2018, 11:45

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3388393

England are training with the Georgians this week also. I’m starting to get the sense ground might be starting to shift slightly. As the article above mentions, the 6 best teams in Europe aren’t playing in the 6 nations.

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