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Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 24 Sep 2017, 23:52

It is an interesting development though but it also makes sense from potential sponsors. Why invest so much money into something that is exclusive to 6 countries? You want maximum exposure.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bolaroid » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 01:51

thatrugbyguy wrote:It is an interesting development though but it also makes sense from potential sponsors. Why invest so much money into something that is exclusive to 6 countries? You want maximum exposure.

Purely from a sponsorship angle, given Western Europe is covered that would surely place North America as the likeliest avenue for any expansion.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 02:07

I've said this before, but opening the tournament up to the rest of Europe will only encourage bigger sponsorship and more TV money. Lets put it this way, it's not going to surprise me if ultimately money is what opens up promotion and relegation in the 6N, it's not going to come about because of the 6N wanting to help the continent as a whole, it's going to be about them trying to make up the money they'll be losing from smaller sponsorship deals.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bolaroid » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 02:13

thatrugbyguy wrote:I've said this before, but opening the tournament up to the rest of Europe will only encourage bigger sponsorship and more TV money. Lets put it this way, it's not going to surprise me if ultimately money is what opens up promotion and relegation in the 6N, it's not going to come about because of the 6N wanting to help the continent as a whole, it's going to be about them trying to make up the money they'll be losing from smaller sponsorship deals.

But isn't the argument that sponsorship-wise the 6N only covers Europe and for that reason the 6N has limited global appeal and that if they want to make it attractive globally to sponsors, opening it up to a new continent is the more obvious route?

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 06:35

thatrugbyguy wrote:It is an interesting development though but it also makes sense from potential sponsors. Why invest so much money into something that is exclusive to 6 countries? You want maximum exposure.


4 countries. I don't think any sponsor will ever say that NI, Wales, Scotland and England are different countries marketingwise.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Figaro » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 09:37

RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:It is an interesting development though but it also makes sense from potential sponsors. Why invest so much money into something that is exclusive to 6 countries? You want maximum exposure.


4 countries. I don't think any sponsor will ever say that NI, Wales, Scotland and England are different countries marketingwise.


With one or two exceptions they have different television channels (or, where there isn't a fully different channel, there will usually be a regional variation at least) and you won't see e.g. the England rugby team marketed in Wales (and there would be outrage if there were), so in many ways they are different markets.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 10:39

Figaro wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:It is an interesting development though but it also makes sense from potential sponsors. Why invest so much money into something that is exclusive to 6 countries? You want maximum exposure.


4 countries. I don't think any sponsor will ever say that NI, Wales, Scotland and England are different countries marketingwise.


With one or two exceptions they have different television channels (or, where there isn't a fully different channel, there will usually be a regional variation at least) and you won't see e.g. the England rugby team marketed in Wales (and there would be outrage if there were), so in many ways they are different markets.


Sponsoring a competition is a different thing than marketing a national team though. Has the RBS had different approaches in the different British regions? Sorry, if I've missed that.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Figaro » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 11:33

On the TV in Wales the promotion of the competition will be exclusively from the perspective of the Welsh national side (I think this at least in part because different channels get different games - e.g. generally Wales/Ireland/Scotland's' home games will be on the BBC, England/France/Italy on ITV). I don't know whether RBS have a hand in that or not, presumably not, but neither presumably do they have any control on how the competition is presented in France and Italy compared to the UK.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 11:59

Bolaroid wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:I've said this before, but opening the tournament up to the rest of Europe will only encourage bigger sponsorship and more TV money. Lets put it this way, it's not going to surprise me if ultimately money is what opens up promotion and relegation in the 6N, it's not going to come about because of the 6N wanting to help the continent as a whole, it's going to be about them trying to make up the money they'll be losing from smaller sponsorship deals.

But isn't the argument that sponsorship-wise the 6N only covers Europe and for that reason the 6N has limited global appeal and that if they want to make it attractive globally to sponsors, opening it up to a new continent is the more obvious route?



I think the point is western Europe. Spain and Portugal are southern Europe (as is Italy to be fair), Germany arguably in "central Europe". It doesn't even cover the whole of Europe, nor even the majority of Europe. For continental brands like BMW or Peugeot (both have sponsored rugby in France & UK recently) that limits what they can justify as advertising spend.

This is also their first renewal since the UK's bribery act of 2010 which has seemingly limited the scope to offer corporate hospitality to clients.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Bolaroid » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 13:41

RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:It is an interesting development though but it also makes sense from potential sponsors. Why invest so much money into something that is exclusive to 6 countries? You want maximum exposure.


4 countries. I don't think any sponsor will ever say that NI, Wales, Scotland and England are different countries marketingwise.

Is the Six Nations shown on Germany TV already? I know it is in the Netherlands.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 16:45

Bolaroid wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:It is an interesting development though but it also makes sense from potential sponsors. Why invest so much money into something that is exclusive to 6 countries? You want maximum exposure.


4 countries. I don't think any sponsor will ever say that NI, Wales, Scotland and England are different countries marketingwise.

Is the Six Nations shown on Germany TV already? I know it is in the Netherlands.


New streaming service DAZN has it. It is kind of the new big thing here. More than expected where watching it last year.
But this is an interesting point: Rugby is so bad at marketing itself that until 2015 there wasn't even a legal way to watch any pro rugby in the biggest and economical strongest EU country
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby fullbackace » Sat, 30 Sep 2017, 06:08

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Bolaroid wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:It is an interesting development though but it also makes sense from potential sponsors. Why invest so much money into something that is exclusive to 6 countries? You want maximum exposure.


4 countries. I don't think any sponsor will ever say that NI, Wales, Scotland and England are different countries marketingwise.

Is the Six Nations shown on Germany TV already? I know it is in the Netherlands.


New streaming service DAZN has it. It is kind of the new big thing here. More than expected where watching it last year.
But this is an interesting point: Rugby is so bad at marketing itself that until 2015 there wasn't even a legal way to watch any pro rugby in the biggest and economical strongest EU country
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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 30 Sep 2017, 09:33

:lol: :thumbup:

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby 4N » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 13:23

Drop Italy and replace them with Japan. If the 6N expands, Italy can bid to get back in along with Georgia.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby Kiroshi » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:04

4N wrote:Drop Italy and replace them with Japan. If the 6N expands, Italy can bid to get back in along with Georgia.


You didn't answer a very important question on another thread.
So, when is the next doomsday for ROM Rugby? Same question for datodato.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby 4N » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:09

If fairness, when doomsday was predicted for Romanian rugby a few years ago, few could have known you would become the nation to naturalize the most players outside of Hong Kong or UAE.

But, given how old your squad is, I'd check the arrogance.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby amz » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:16

You seem to completely ignore the fact that Japan fielded more naturalised players than Romania :) Yet you think they should join 6N

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby 4N » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:24

I'd be surprised if they have naturalized more players than you recently. As I mentioned, you beat Tonga in 2013 with one naturalized player. Japan has been in roughly the same shape with foreign players for 10+ years.

And to be clear, Matsushima is not naturalized. Japanese parent. And a number of the naturalized guys went to Japan to attend school. Leitch has been there since childhood.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby amz » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:28

4N wrote:I'd be surprised if they have naturalized more players than you recently. As I mentioned, you beat Tonga in 2013 with one naturalized player. Japan has been in roughly the same shape with foreign players for 10+ years.


What shape from 10 years? Do you remember RWC 2011? was only 6 years ago. Sometimes I have the feeling you don't even watch rugby.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby 4N » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:31


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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby 4N » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:36

From the current Japanese squad, Ji-won, Helu, Leitch, Mafi, Lafaele all attended university in Japan. Your guys move at age 28 to play in the easiest pro league in the world.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby amz » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:38



France was beaten by Tonga because players despised Lièvremont.

NZ 87 - 0 Japan
Tonga 31 - 18 Japan
Canada 23 - 23 Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Rugb ... Cup_Pool_A

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby amz » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:40

4N wrote:From the current Japanese squad, Ji-won, Helu, Leitch, Mafi, Lafaele all attended university in Japan. Your guys move at age 28 to play in the easiest pro league in the world.


Well, are they naturalized or not? Most of ours have 28-29 now and already eligible for some time so I think your arithmetic skills should be a concern for you :)

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby 4N » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:43

amz wrote:


France was beaten by Tonga because players despised Lièvremont.

NZ 87 - 0 Japan
Tonga 31 - 18 Japan
Canada 23 - 23 Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Rugb ... Cup_Pool_A


I thought we were discussing foreign players in the last 10+ years. As I said, the situation with Japan has barely changed, if at all. Romania now caps anyone playing in the country. If Turashvili was your first naturalized player a few years ago, I think it's pretty clear none of them have roots in the country like some of the naturalized Japanese do.

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Re: Are the stars aligning for a 6N expansion?

Postby amz » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 14:54

So how come study at an uni gives you more roots than working in a country? And on what grounds did you assume we discuss last 10 years since your issue with Romanian foreign born players is now? Also what makes Japan different , it is better to have started earlier? And no, it isn't everybody who players naturalised, it's the ones who wants to play. Or do you imagine we force them or what?

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