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Argentine club rugby

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Argentine club rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Wed, 11 May 2016, 21:08

http://www.referi.uy/historico-clubes-u ... no-n909177

The Torneo Nacional de Clubes will have two divisions in 2017, with 7 URBA teams each.
The Torneo del Interior will still have two divisions.

Each division would have about 16 teams, so there will be several more clubs competing than this year.

Uruguay will have four teams: two in the Torneo Nacional B, and two in the Torneo del Interior B (one in A if Old Christian wins this weekend).

If URBA reduces its main tournament to 12 teams, the two spots in the Torneo Nacional B will be given to interior teams.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby josh » Wed, 11 May 2016, 21:21

Naburu, do you think Montevideo could have a super rugby team one day?

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 12 May 2016, 14:07

Having a Super Rugby team requires several factors.

First is money. Paying for 30 Super Rugby-level players is expensive. Argentines think that they can't afford two, and they have 40 million people of potential fans.

The least attended Super Rugby teams have an average 10k spectators. We can reach that only in World Cup repechage matches.

If the Jaguares have struggled, the Teros would do even worse. A second Americas team needs several Argentines at least.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby Fiji86 » Sat, 14 May 2016, 16:13

Live on ESPN Play internet website, is playing Huirapuca from Tucuman vs. Old Christians from Montevideo (Uruguay) the final match of Torneo del Interior B, third level of argentine club competition. Nice Match to see. Streaming available on ESPN, Direct TV and Claro Chile, all pay site sadly

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby Fiji86 » Sat, 14 May 2016, 17:05

Huirapuca 8-6 Old Christians half time result

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby Fiji86 » Sat, 14 May 2016, 17:58

Huirapuca is the champion, nice second half for the team from Concepcion, south of Tucuman. Final score is 28-6. Good job for uruguayan team, the next year four teams of Uruguay play on the national clubs rugby system of Argentina.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby Raven » Tue, 17 May 2016, 13:56

Los Tarcos, from Tucuman Province (as Huirapuca) won the Torneo del Interior A.

The Torneo Nacional de clubes has 2 sides of Buenos Aires in the final, (3 out of 4 semi-finalists) as Hindú & Belgrano will be deciding the Champion of that tournament that slowly arises as the most important one in Argentina.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 17 May 2016, 20:58

The major URBA clubs want the URBA tournament to have more matches. They are discussing a two-round robin 12-team format.

However, several major clubs have performed poorly recently. So if they would get relegated after this year's edition, I doubt they will apply that proposal.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby Fiji86 » Sat, 21 May 2016, 16:02

The season of clubs national tournaments ends today, Hindu last champion of Nacional de Clubes and URBA Top 14 in 2015 vs. Belgrano Athletic, one of the major increase clubs of Buenos Aires in the last five years and founder member club of the UAR.

The second level wins last week by Los Tarcos from Tucumán defeated 30-15 Jockey Club from Rosario, the third level wins by Huirapuca from Concepcion, south of Tucumán defeated Old Christians from Montevideo, uruguayan champion and debutant this year in argentine club rugby.

Really interesting first six months for argentine national club rugby scene, the second part of the year is focus on regional or provincial tournaments for clubs, the most important is Buenos Aires club championships, URBA Top 14, other is the Noroeste Championship, clubs from Tucumán, Salta and Santiago del Estero clubs.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby Fiji86 » Sun, 22 May 2016, 15:35

On the final match Hindu wins 38-23 Belgrano Athletic getting the double championship making the best club team of last 10 years in argentine rugby scene.
I share the highlights of the match. In the second part of year Hindu work again to repeat the championship in URBA Top 14,
with the possibility of the third consecutive

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/videohu ... es:2682299

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Sun, 22 May 2016, 22:25


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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 23 May 2016, 01:13

URBA (Buenos Aires Rugby Union) structure will change too.

With Buenos Aires' clubs playing both Nacional A and Nacional B, they will simplify URBA's competitions. In 2017, URBA Top 14 (Buenos Aires top flight) will become URBA Top 12, with these 12 clubs playing Nacional A or B + URBA Top 12 in round robin home and away. The second division will be URBA Grupo I, with 14 clubs, that will play each other round robin home and away. With this, there won't be anymore the Reubicación tournament.

To make it clear, elite Buenos Aires clubs have in 2016 this calendar:

March-May
7 clubs (the 7 best teams of 2015 URBA Top 14) play Nacional de Clubes (National Championship)
20 clubs play URBA Gropo I tournament - 7 best teams qualify to URBA Top 14
24 clubs play URBA Grupo II tournament (second division)

June-October
URBA Top 14 - 14 clubs (7 clubs that played the Nacional + 7 best teams of the URBA Grupo I)
Reubicación (Qualification tournament for the next URBA Grupo I) - 26 clubs (the other 13 teams that played URBA Grupo I + 13 best teams of URBA Grupo II)

In 2017 the calendar will be:
March-May
12 clubs split between Nacional de Clubes A (national 1st division) and Nacional de Clubes B (new national 2nd division)

March-October
14 clubs play URBA Grupo I (2 bottom teams of the 2016 URBA Top 14 + 12 best teams of 2016 Reubicación)

June-October
12 clubs play URBA Top 12 (12 best teams of the 2016 URBA Top 14)

This means URBA Grupo I will be a real Buenos Aires 2nd division
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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby carbonero » Mon, 23 May 2016, 04:48

victorsra wrote:In 2017 the calendar will be:
March-May
12 clubs split between Nacional de Clubes A (national 1st division) and Nacional de Clubes B (new national 2nd division)

March-October
14 clubs play URBA Grupo I (2 bottom teams of the 2016 URBA Top 14 + 12 best teams of 2016 Reubicación)

June-October
12 clubs play URBA Top 12 (12 best teams of the 2016 URBA Top 14)


You are missing the crux of the issue. Buenos Aires wants the new Top 12 to cover 24 weeks, trimming down the “Nacional de Clubes” to only five rounds instead of nine.

One of the problems raised was that the NdC creates an elite squad within the clubs, alienating their reserve sides until June. It is a valid concern because these are social clubs and therefore, the players want to be around their friends throughout the whole year.

The more cynic view is that Buenos Aires wants to kill the national tournament to regain visibility, in a moment when they are already losing eyeballs to the SR franchise.

The question is if they can force Pichot’s hand. Honestly, URBA could leave the NdC altogether with no serious repercussions. ESPN is media partner with both unions, but will clearly prioritize the Pumas/Jaguares package. Nonetheless, Buenos Aires could resort to Direct TV or even Fox Sports, who started broadcasting the sevens circuit this year. For example, “Fox Sports 2” is available with a basic cable package. Most of their programming is unappealing for the local audience (WWE, MLB, MLS, etc.), so they are probably starving for some content.

However, there is room for compromise. You could spread the Nacional into different windows, now that all the Top 12 teams are involved. But that could mean the end of the “Argentino de Uniones” in November, because an Hindú/CUBA/Belgrano player selected for the URBA squad, could compete in almost 40 games throughout the season. Too much to ask for an amateur athlete.

I went to this length to explain the local club landscape because it could have consequences for Uruguay, Brasil, Chile and Paraguay. The UAR’s endgame was to involve other South American development squads on the provincial tournament (Uruguay XV and Paraguay are included in the 2016 edition), but that whole competition is now on jeopardy with all this turmoil.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 23 May 2016, 08:44

What sort of crowds to the BA clubs pull? Would I be correct in thinking that the crowd at the final isn't typical of the regular season because if they were then why haven't they looked to go pro yet?

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 23 May 2016, 13:28

You are missing the crux of the issue. Buenos Aires wants the new Top 12 to cover 24 weeks, trimming down the “Nacional de Clubes” to only five rounds instead of nine.

One of the problems raised was that the NdC creates an elite squad within the clubs, alienating their reserve sides until June. It is a valid concern because these are social clubs and therefore, the players want to be around their friends throughout the whole year.

The more cynic view is that Buenos Aires wants to kill the national tournament to regain visibility, in a moment when they are already losing eyeballs to the SR franchise.

The question is if they can force Pichot’s hand. Honestly, URBA could leave the NdC altogether with no serious repercussions. ESPN is media partner with both unions, but will clearly prioritize the Pumas/Jaguares package. Nonetheless, Buenos Aires could resort to Direct TV or even Fox Sports, who started broadcasting the sevens circuit this year. For example, “Fox Sports 2” is available with a basic cable package. Most of their programming is unappealing for the local audience (WWE, MLB, MLS, etc.), so they are probably starving for some content.

However, there is room for compromise. You could spread the Nacional into different windows, now that all the Top 12 teams are involved. But that could mean the end of the “Argentino de Uniones” in November, because an Hindú/CUBA/Belgrano player selected for the URBA squad, could compete in almost 40 games throughout the season. Too much to ask for an amateur athlete.

I went to this length to explain the local club landscape because it could have consequences for Uruguay, Brasil, Chile and Paraguay. The UAR’s endgame was to involve other South American development squads on the provincial tournament (Uruguay XV and Paraguay are included in the 2016 edition), but that whole competition is now on jeopardy with all this turmoil.


Very interesting! And sad about the Argentino de Uniones
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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby argie » Mon, 23 May 2016, 15:51

Working Class Rugger wrote:What sort of crowds to the BA clubs pull? Would I be correct in thinking that the crowd at the final isn't typical of the regular season because if they were then why haven't they looked to go pro yet?


Because the rugby in Argentina can't be professional. Is the rule that all clubs had voted in the UAR. No one pro club.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 23 May 2016, 16:19

I don't like URBA's new format.

I'd do a first phase with divisions of 24 teams. Each is split in two groups, which play a round robin (11 matches).

The top 6 teams in the Division 1 groups advance top the Top 12, where they play each other once (6 matches).
The bottom 6 teams in Division 1 groups and the top 6 teams in Division 2 groups advance to Reubicación 1. Groups are reshuffled and they play a round robin (11 matches).
The top 6 teams in Reubicación 1 groups would play next year's Division 1, and the bottom 6 teams would play Division 2.
Same with Reubicación 2 and 3.

First phase would be played from April to June.
The Top 12 would be played from July to August.
The Nacional de Clubes would be played from September to October.
The Reubicación would be played from July to October.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 23 May 2016, 16:21

carbonero wrote: Buenos Aires could resort to Direct TV or even Fox Sports, who started broadcasting the sevens circuit this year. For example, “Fox Sports 2” is available with a basic cable package. Most of their programming is unappealing for the local audience (WWE, MLB, MLS, etc.), so they are probably starving for some content.


That could happen.

carbonero wrote: it could have consequences for Uruguay, Brasil, Chile and Paraguay. The UAR’s endgame was to involve other South American development squads on the provincial tournament (Uruguay XV and Paraguay are included in the 2016 edition), but that whole competition is now on jeopardy with all this turmoil.


Exactly.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 23 May 2016, 16:22

Working Class Rugger wrote:What sort of crowds to the BA clubs pull? Would I be correct in thinking that the crowd at the final isn't typical of the regular season because if they were then why haven't they looked to go pro yet?

Image

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 23 May 2016, 17:40

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/photos/ ... d=2683097&

You can see this sort of crowd all the time in Argentina, not only in the final.
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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 24 May 2016, 00:30

argie wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:What sort of crowds to the BA clubs pull? Would I be correct in thinking that the crowd at the final isn't typical of the regular season because if they were then why haven't they looked to go pro yet?


Because the rugby in Argentina can't be professional. Is the rule that all clubs had voted in the UAR. No one pro club.


So is it part of the UAR's constitution? Or could they look to make the transition if the clubs decided to vote for it?

I was just wondering because if those are the kind of crowds they can draw then they could at the very least invest in providing high quality training environments.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby carbonero » Tue, 24 May 2016, 02:44

Working Class Rugger wrote:
So is it part of the UAR's constitution? Or could they look to make the transition if the clubs decided to vote for it?

I was just wondering because if those are the kind of crowds they can draw then they could at the very least invest in providing high quality training environments.


The amateur stature is in the bylaws of each club. Some of them like Belgrano Athletic, Lomas Athletic, Alumni, etc. were even part of the football championship during the amateur era but folded when the sport turned pro.

About the crowd, the caveat is that you generally don't have to pay for a ticket. These are associates, not fans of the club. Maybe in an away fixture you pay some kind of fee, but it is probably to park your car inside the club.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby Thomas » Tue, 24 May 2016, 10:29

Are there any plans to make clubs professional? without rehashing the arguments. will we see any change in the constitution to create new clubs or setup professional clubs?

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby carbonero » Tue, 24 May 2016, 16:14

Thomas wrote:Are there any plans to make clubs professional? without rehashing the arguments. will we see any change in the constitution to create new clubs or setup professional clubs?


Not now, not ever.

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Re: Argentine club rugby

Postby Thomas » Tue, 24 May 2016, 19:28

carbonero wrote:
Thomas wrote:Are there any plans to make clubs professional? without rehashing the arguments. will we see any change in the constitution to create new clubs or setup professional clubs?


Not now, not ever.


Why ? that is a very finite statement. is this because of the Buenos Aires clique? How will Argentina develop it's Rugby? From an outsider what is the problem in setting up a separate professional organisation under the UAR umbrella? is this a cultural thing or are the clubs afraid to change and modernise?

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