Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

South American rugby

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Re: South American rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 00:44

iul wrote:From the unions budgets? IIRC the Brazilian union has a budget something like 7 million USD. There's room in there for a couple of professional sides.


$7MM USD is really not a lot. Our budget is $12MM this year...and we're broke.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 12:09

Yeah and if they apparently have money to spend why haven’t there been more initiatives to grow the game? What would they have to cut in order to pay for the league?

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 12:45

But we have. Brazilian Rugby Union pays travels expenses for all national club competitions (bus up to 800 km and plane for more), has 5 high performance/development academies, and Tag Rugby programs for schools. Also national team players are all professionals now.

Most of the money can't have the destination changed because of Sports Incentive Law, Ministry of Sport and World Rugby.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 14:08

Very nice. How are they all professionals now? All getting match fees or a full salary for being selected to the Tupis?

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 14:41

No match fees AFAIK. There is a high performance group that receives salaries from the Brazilian Rugby Union (CBRu) and some players receive money from Bolsa Atleta (government's wages for Olympic athletes... only for sevens players... the Women's team receives from Bolsa Atleta and from CBRu).

Nobody is rich because of this money :lol: But it is enough to focus on rugby.

Also, a couple of clubs started to pay too, but small salaries (like 300 dollars) only for top players. I would say top players, putting everything together (CBRu, Bolsa Atleta and clubs) can earn 1500 dollars/month (both, men and women).
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 15:47

Is that reals or USD? If you're talking dollars that's a pretty decent salary, no? It's tough to make comparisons but in Colombia that's about 2-3 times more than the cost of rent so it's very livable.

So if this is how much CBRu is already paying then paying salaries for players shouldn't be too difficult if it's realigned towards the players on the new teams.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 16:31

Tobar wrote: I am certain though that you can South American players far less than Americans and have them live more comfortably. That’s a key benefit to keep in mind too.

Uruguay is very expensive. A liter of gasoline costs US$ 1.50, and a liter of UHT milk costs US$ 1.20.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 16:33

Tobar wrote: Where does the money come from though?

TV and sponsors, of course. This league must be self-sustaining, not subsidized.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 18:47

NaBUru38 wrote:
Tobar wrote: Where does the money come from though?

TV and sponsors, of course. This league must be self-sustaining, not subsidized.


Well of course the money will come from tv deals and sponsors but where exactly will the sponsor money come from? It's easy to just say TV deals/sponsor deals but it's much more complicated than that. I'm just wondering how many companies in SA are willing to shell out for a niche sport.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 18:48

NaBUru38 wrote:
Tobar wrote: I am certain though that you can South American players far less than Americans and have them live more comfortably. That’s a key benefit to keep in mind too.

Uruguay is very expensive. A liter of gasoline costs US$ 1.50, and a liter of UHT milk costs US$ 1.20.


Oof that's rough. Similar to Colombia but food, services and housing is all much cheaper which makes up for it a bit.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 19:19

Is that reals or USD? If you're talking dollars that's a pretty decent salary, no?


Top national team players about 1000-1500 dollars, 3000-4000 reais. But most players earn less. São Paulo is incredibly expensive too, specially housing. Gas liter is 1.2-1.5 dollars too, same price of 1 bus/subway ticket (4 reais).
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Tue, 13 Mar 2018, 15:27

What's the housing situation like there? (This is starting to go a bit off topic but I like knowing these things).

Regardless of the expenses though, $18,000 per year for the top players is pretty good for a country ranked 26th in the world. Even the US only pays match day fees or some garbage like that. If they shift the money towards professional players who will likely be the same players then this does reduce the costs quite a bit for Brazil. For comparison, MLR is only paying 10 guys per team to be full time and that is anywhere from $10,000 - $30,000 for the season. There are other ways around this though, like paying someone to be an academy coach.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 13 Mar 2018, 17:48

How much it costs to rent an apartmen in São Paulo? Well, a 2 bedrooms apartment in a good location = 700 dollars/month + taxes. Of course, big metropolis, it all depend on the location.

But, for exemple, the women's team players that came from other cities rent a big house (like 5 bedrooms, close to the training center) where they have like 8-10 players living. Smart option.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Tue, 13 Mar 2018, 18:10

Party central. I guess $1500 a month is good for paying for the necessities.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 13 Mar 2018, 18:26

With 1500 you can call yourself a rugby professional indeed.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Tue, 13 Mar 2018, 19:28

Colombia Rugby had an interview with W Sports (large radio station in Colombia) and they expressed the goal of having semi-pro rugby in Colombia in the next 4-5 years. My spanish isn't very good so I couldn't hear all the details, but they did quote it in a tweet.

https://twitter.com/WRadioColombia/stat ... 9384515584

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 16 Mar 2018, 12:12

Uruguay wants its two franchises to be linked to its two main soccer clubs:
https://www.referi.uy/nacional-y-penaro ... y-n1186828

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Re: South American rugby

Postby qwerty » Fri, 16 Mar 2018, 13:01

Armchair Fan wrote:Uruguay wants its two franchises to be linked to its two main soccer


I was just about to post this! It'd be really funny to see soccer-style ultras in a rugby game. Well, maybe not so funny if it evolves into violence, but I think that URU is making the right choice if they want to have two franchises in Uruguay. There is no place outside Montevideo to put one, and you need a way to divide the fanbase if they're in the same city.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 16 Mar 2018, 13:27

I guess this is the only way to have $ for 2 teams...
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Re: South American rugby

Postby 4N » Fri, 16 Mar 2018, 14:18

4N wrote:Just put one Montevideo team in Penarol colors and the other in Nacional. ;)


I wrote this back in February. Was joking at the time but it's a great idea!

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 00:39

I've just read the ARN article on this development and it mentions that the number of teams could in fact be 10 instead of the initially stated 8. Anyone have anything on this?

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 00:41

Sorry, I have nothing. It is really confusing. I heard this could indeed involve Colombian and even Mexican teams and it would be played from January to June. But this sounds nuts...
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 00:55

qwerty wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Uruguay wants its two franchises to be linked to its two main soccer


I was just about to post this! It'd be really funny to see soccer-style ultras in a rugby game. Well, maybe not so funny if it evolves into violence, but I think that URU is making the right choice if they want to have two franchises in Uruguay. There is no place outside Montevideo to put one, and you need a way to divide the fanbase if they're in the same city.


I'm no expert on South American soccer teams but wouldn't it be potentially detrimental to partner with a soccer club? Part of the appeal of rugby is separating from that of soccer (hooligans game played by gentlemen, vice versa). More importantly than that, if rivalries can turn vitriolic between the soccer clubs I would guess that would affect the players within the clubs. This was a comment on the ARN article by someone who I assume is Uruguayan.

Using football clubs to create rugby franchises would be a serious mistake, once it would affect relations between rugbiers inside local rugby clubs because of football rivalries, who are more deeper in society than rugby culture. Surely in clubs like Old Cristians and Old Boys there are Peñarol supporters and Nacional supporters.


Again, I'm no expert on South American soccer so I'm just curious.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 01:06

victorsra wrote:Sorry, I have nothing. It is really confusing. I heard this could indeed involve Colombian and even Mexican teams and it would be played from January to June. But this sounds nuts...


In a way it makes sense. Outside of Argentina. Uruguay, Brazil, Chile, Colombia and Mexico are either the next best or emerging markets. So involving them makes sense. The travel side of it however would be a little tougher. But doable. I guess if the money is there or someone like WR is willing to either fund or help fund the logistics of it all it might be okay.

Certainly will be interesting to see things shake out.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby 4N » Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 01:15

Tobar wrote:
qwerty wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Uruguay wants its two franchises to be linked to its two main soccer


I was just about to post this! It'd be really funny to see soccer-style ultras in a rugby game. Well, maybe not so funny if it evolves into violence, but I think that URU is making the right choice if they want to have two franchises in Uruguay. There is no place outside Montevideo to put one, and you need a way to divide the fanbase if they're in the same city.


I'm no expert on South American soccer teams but wouldn't it be potentially detrimental to partner with a soccer club? Part of the appeal of rugby is separating from that of soccer (hooligans game played by gentlemen, vice versa). More importantly than that, if rivalries can turn vitriolic between the soccer clubs I would guess that would affect the players within the clubs. This was a comment on the ARN article by someone who I assume is Uruguayan.



Uruguay is a small country like the size of NZ. I think a good 50% of the country are Nacional or Penarol fans. It could be huge especially in terms of expanding the game outside of the upper classes.

Uruguay in the last few years adopted a program similar to Argentina and began picking big U16 players from around the country to attend national academies. Their U20 teams have produced some very promising forwards in the last 4-5 years and the younger generations seem even better.

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