Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

South American rugby

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 13:53

Posted this in the NACRA thread since it's more relevant but there are a couple South American countries participating (and it's in Colombia).

Only 24 days left until the Central American and Caribbean Games in Barranquilla, Colombia. Rugby will be played on August 1st and 2nd so teams like Jamaica and Mexico can participate in the RWC Sevens as well as this tournament and I imagine of them win. The matches will be played at the newly renovated 3000 seater Estadio Moderno Julio Torres. I will be there for the last week of the tournament and definitely going to watch some rugby. I managed to get a press pass through my BIL so will be taking pics and possibly interviewing anyone who speaks English.

Here is the page in English: http://barranquilla2018.com/en/

And here are the 50 participating countries (primarily Caribbean island countries): http://barranquilla2018.com/en/paises/

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Osmanperalta » Fri, 06 Jul 2018, 12:04

It's official Maori all blacks will play against brazil (10 noviembre sao paulo) and chile (17 noviembre santiago) this end of year

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Fri, 06 Jul 2018, 13:20

These will be good tests for Brazil and Chile and they don't count for WR rankings so it doesn't impact that - it's purely a high quality test. Hopefully they can do some sort of training with them.

I hope the 2 teams can sell a decent amount of tickets - imagine being a brand new rugby fan in South America and seeing this.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby amz » Fri, 06 Jul 2018, 13:52

so they play T3 in South America but not T2 in Europe :roll:

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Re: South American rugby

Postby carbonero » Fri, 06 Jul 2018, 21:43

amz wrote:so they play T3 in South America but not T2 in Europe :roll:

The Maori All Blacks follow the money. If you pay them enough, they are always available.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Sat, 07 Jul 2018, 01:56

Any idea how much the Maori All Blacks ask to be payed?
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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Sat, 07 Jul 2018, 02:02

amz wrote:so they play T3 in South America but not T2 in Europe :roll:

I dont think it is a question of quality. The MAB are a cheaper product NZR has to earn money. Nothing else. People here are talking about 20.000 attendance + free to air TV. Certainly Brazil is paying to host the MAB.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 07 Jul 2018, 04:49

Good test for both Brazil and Chile.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 07 Jul 2018, 05:31

victorsra wrote:
amz wrote:so they play T3 in South America but not T2 in Europe :roll:

I dont think it is a question of quality. The MAB are a cheaper product NZR has to earn money. Nothing else. People here are talking about 20.000 attendance + free to air TV. Certainly Brazil is paying to host the MAB.


Yeah, but with that sort of exposure they would be worth the fee.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby argie » Tue, 10 Jul 2018, 22:23

RUGBY SUMMER CUP 2018
Georgia XV
Argentina XV
Racing 92
Brazil
http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2018/0 ... r-georgia/
Image

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Re: South American rugby

Postby dwpeate » Tue, 10 Jul 2018, 22:47

From what I saw of a Brazilian union tweet, it said Brazil Select XV. Anyone better placed to comment?

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Hernan14 » Tue, 10 Jul 2018, 23:45

dwpeate wrote:From what I saw of a Brazilian union tweet, it said Brazil Select XV. Anyone better placed to comment?


In fact say Seleção Brasileira XV, we use Selección -spanish- or Seleção -portuguese- as National Team...the link in the tweet say: Seleção Brasileira de rugby XV, traslate as Brazilian Rugby XV National Team

https://ww2.brasilrugby.com.br/blogs/ne ... -na-europa

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Immenso » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 00:12

carbonero wrote:
amz wrote:so they play T3 in South America but not T2 in Europe :roll:

The Maori All Blacks follow the money. If you pay them enough, they are always available.



Do you think so?

I have genuinely wondered about the Maori All Blacks and revenue sharing. But I've never been able to find any information about it.

E.g. Last year when the All Blacks played a Frence XV mid-week on their November tour and the Maori All Blacks played the French Barbarians - I thought surely this is a revenue sharing exercise by the NZRU, but frustratingly could not find any information on it. Those 2 games had crowds of 50,000 and 30,000 repsectively and generated a lot of revenue for someone. But then this year the French Barbarians toured NZ in June playing the Crusaders and Highlanders, so it seems to me to just points to a traditional "we tour / you tour" reciprocal agreement with the hosts picking up the accomodation and travel costs but keeping the gate.

The benefit NZRU got was that they were able to use the Barbarians, Maori All Blacks and the mid-week All Black match to have a larger squad in Europe to draw from at no cost to themselves, and they got to debut lots of players last year after retirements of senior players who were contracted up the Bristish Lions year. But I've not heard of any fees or gate-sharing for thsoe games.

Would the Canadians on here know the arrangements of the MABs v Canada in Vancouver on that tour last year?

Personally I think i would have heard about it if the Maori All Blacks were being used to generate overseas revenue for the NZRU. It's a subject that generates clicks.

The only stuff i can find is regarding them putting a toe into the streaming market; "NZ Rugby have teamed up with Sky TV in November last year to stream four matches, charging $18.99 for games featuring the All Blacks and $8.99 for games played by the Maori All Blacks." (those 4 games were the 'extra' matches NZRU had a bargaining chip in. E.g. doesn't include the 3 November tests where the host owned 100% of the TV Rights to sell for themselves in all markets)

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Immenso » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 00:15

victorsra wrote:
amz wrote:so they play T3 in South America but not T2 in Europe :roll:

I dont think it is a question of quality. The MAB are a cheaper product NZR has to earn money. Nothing else. People here are talking about 20.000 attendance + free to air TV. Certainly Brazil is paying to host the MAB.


Hi victorsa.

I posted a longer reply to a Carbonero post re: this.

But do you know if this is the case? (Apart from the normal paying for accommodation and travel)?

This a genuine question as I am curious to know, not trying to start an internet argument. I take it you would have access to asking people in the know in the Brazilian federation?

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Re: South American rugby

Postby carbonero » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 01:35

NZ Maori was incorporated to the “All Black” brand to create new revenue streams > https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... lacks-name

I don’t have any official number but it is obvious that they are not touring South America for free.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 03:34

Yes, sorry, I dont have those number but I will try to find out.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Immenso » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 03:46

carbonero wrote:NZ Maori was incorporated to the “All Black” brand to create new revenue streams > https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... lacks-name

I don’t have any official number but it is obvious that they are not touring South America for free.


Hmmmm, yeah, as the article says ; ""So our sevens teams and our Maori All Blacks ... can give us leverage to get sponsorship and brand awareness we require".

So extrapolating that to the sevens team - they don't get paid any appearance fees. All they do is participate in WR Sevens tournaments.

So by branding them the All Blacks Sevens, they leverage their sponsorship (AIG and Adidas) and brand awareness.

Why is it obvious that the Maori All Blacks have any ambitions beyond that?

Maybe they do. I would actually hope that they do when they visit Munster or some such Tier 1 outfit, as long as it is mutually beneficial to both parties. But I'd be less comfortbale if they were profiting from a tour to Tier 3 tour hosts. But if both parties make a profit then I guess fair enough.

For information, looking at the NZRPA collective agreement, the players are paid NZD $3k per week to play for the Maori All Blacks. So a 26 man squad on a 3 week tour plus 1 week camp would cost NZD $312,000 in player wages by the NZRU.

Commercially, maybe the extra brand awareness is worth that cost? E.g. All Blacks, Adidas, AIG brands getting exposure in November in Chicago, Sao Paolo and Santiago as well as in London, Dublin and Rome. Maintaining or increasing the value of their next sponsorship deals.

From the playing side their is benefit in for example last year where fringe All Blacks players like Akira Ioane, TTT, Jackson Hemopo, Tom Franklin play in a hostile stadium like Bordeaux in a tough losing match. Plus development opportunities for coaches. So there are some incentives to make wearing that cost acceptable.

Anyway, as I said in above posts. I don't know the deal. I just don't assume they get a fee or revenue share.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Immenso » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 03:50

Oh, I should add.

I wouldn't be surprised at all, actually I probably expect it, that the game v USA could involve some financial incentives. E.g. as part of package organised by Italy and Ireland for that Chicago weekend, to include an opponent for the USA so there isa higher level of local interest and broaden the potential customer base.

Although the Irish could probably fill it out themselves ..... those guys turn up.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 04:34

I wonder what hand World Rugby has with financing for these type of matches. I imagine it's far cheaper to organise a match against the Maori but it still wouldn't be cheap for a T3 nations. In many ways rugby is unique that it has such a recognisable second XV team like the Maori and fortunate they can go to places where the All Blacks can't, I can't think of too many sports where a 'B' team can attract the type of big crowds and publicity the Maori can.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 04:36

All they do is participate in WR Sevens tournaments.


Maybe that tournament in the Sillicon Valley?
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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 04:41

Image

All matches at the Locomotive stadium in Tbilisi.

Brazil will play Racing on July 28th and Georgia A on August 3rd. There won't be Brazil vs Argentina XV and I still don't know which are Argentina XV's matches.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby carbonero » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 04:51

Immenso wrote:I just don't assume they get a fee or revenue share.

I do make that assumption. Altruism doesn’t exist in Tier 1 rugby. However, there is nothing wrong with turning a profit with this tour. I'm sure Brazil and Chile are going to get their investment back.

victorsra wrote:I still don't know which are Argentina XV's matches.

Georgia A and Racing 92

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Re: South American rugby

Postby argie » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 10:25

July 28th
- Brazil v Racing 92
- Argentina XV v Georgia XV

August 3rd
- Brazil v Georgia XV
- Argentina XV v Racing 92

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Re: South American rugby

Postby dwpeate » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 11:12

Is it full Brazilian national team?

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Re: South American rugby

Postby argie » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 16:55

Yes. They are Os Tupis.

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