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All Hail President Trump

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All Hail President Trump

Postby iul » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 07:42

He has done it. Trump is the President of the United States. :thumbup:
The nationalists are winning again :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 09:23

Because Nationalism has worked out so well in the past?

Hope you look forward to living in a Greater Russia again because Trump certainly won't do anything to stop it.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby iul » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 09:49

Nationalism is the only thing that keeps the people united against external and internal threats. It's the only path the people have to keep their freedom. :thumbup:

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 10:31

iul wrote:Nationalism is the only thing that keeps the people united against external and internal threats. It's the only path the people have to keep their freedom. :thumbup:


Can you name any examples of your theory? We are now up to 70+ years without a war and counting in Germany - without nationalism. The longest period ever and you know we enjoyed a good brawl in the past.

Examples of nationalism leading to wars and terror: WW1, WW2, Balkan War, nationalism in Bask country, Kosovo-War and the list goes on. Actually I can't even think about a single nationalist movement who didn't lead to less freedom for the people.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby iul » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 11:49

RugbyLiebe wrote:
iul wrote:Nationalism is the only thing that keeps the people united against external and internal threats. It's the only path the people have to keep their freedom. :thumbup:


Can you name any examples of your theory? We are now up to 70+ years without a war and counting in Germany - without nationalism. The longest period ever and you know we enjoyed a good brawl in the past.

Examples of nationalism leading to wars and terror: WW1, WW2, Balkan War, nationalism in Bask country, Kosovo-War and the list goes on. Actually I can't even think about a single nationalist movement who didn't lead to less freedom for the people.

So, the Serbs should have accepted to become the Austrian emperor's slaves? They should have accepted to be oppressed, to not have any say in how they lead their lives and what their destiny should be, and instead accept being the subjects of an emperor who couldn't give two shits about them? And you call that freedom?

Look at what the lack of nationalism is doing to your country. You have members of the elite openly cheering for the times the Germans will be a minority within their own country and thus loose the power to shape the way they live. And you call that freedom?

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby amz » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 12:11

@iul, I am really curious to find out who the heck you'll vote at our elections in December 2016 because I am afraid there's no party that fits your political believes.

I noticed a change of tone in his speech, it was conciliatory which gives me reasons to hope that not all those silly things he said in campaign won't actually happen. I still don't like this guy at all although I do sympathize with Republicans generally from my distant foreign observer. I won't suddenly change my view on him now that he won.

Few thoughts discussed in Romania during this electoral campaign:

- US is the only serious warrant of security for Romania and the partnership is paramount and some consider is even more important or assuring than NATO membership; also Romania is one of the most pro-american countries in Europe.

- HRC was main option due to her engagement to support US allies; anyway, even with Trump declaration, people seem pretty relaxed since there is an agreement between parties to spend at least 2% from GDP on defense and this is a decision taken from some years, first acquisitions being already made/decided (F-16s, Sigma corvettes, Spike missiles) while others are on debate (new APC, new MBT, more jets, SPGs, new MLRS etc.)

- We discovered we aren't the only people who have two choose between the lesser damaging personality.

- Moderate trust in US system checks and balances.

- Horror, we don't have an anti-system or extremist candidate/party to have the slightest chance to make it into the Parliament or into a significant public office with parliamentary elections one month away so again we aren't on the same step with the Western world. I imagine @iul will have an issue on picking who to vote in Romanian 2016 elections :D

- I think Trump's win is also a quite normal reaction of the society to the excess of political corectness; since some left wing liberals and certain groups didn't know where to stop in order not to offend the mainstream population, this is what they get.

Finally, I rate nationalism on the same same scale with nazism, communism, fascism.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby iul » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 12:16

Wow, you rate loving your country and your nation on the same scale as nazism, communism and fascism?

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby amz » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 12:17

iul wrote:Wow, you rate loving your country and your nation on the same scale as nazism, communism and fascism?


You don't know the meaning of words iul, that is called PATRIOTISM.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby iul » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 12:26

https://www.wordnik.com/words/nationalism

Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.


Wow, just like the nazis :roll:

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby amz » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 12:42

Which kind of confirms me that Trump supporters are mostly functional illiterates ;) with some exception of course.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby dropkick » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 12:46

Trump will be a great president. He'll boost their economy as well as protect the borders. :thumbup:


There's going to be more Trump like politicians voted in across Europe, which will be a victory for common sense.


There's also the rise of the nationalistic 'alt right' movement.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 12:51

iul wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
iul wrote:Nationalism is the only thing that keeps the people united against external and internal threats. It's the only path the people have to keep their freedom. :thumbup:


Can you name any examples of your theory? We are now up to 70+ years without a war and counting in Germany - without nationalism. The longest period ever and you know we enjoyed a good brawl in the past.

Examples of nationalism leading to wars and terror: WW1, WW2, Balkan War, nationalism in Bask country, Kosovo-War and the list goes on. Actually I can't even think about a single nationalist movement who didn't lead to less freedom for the people.

So, the Serbs should have accepted to become the Austrian emperor's slaves? They should have accepted to be oppressed, to not have any say in how they lead their lives and what their destiny should be, and instead accept being the subjects of an emperor who couldn't give two shits about them? And you call that freedom?

Look at what the lack of nationalism is doing to your country. You have members of the elite openly cheering for the times the Germans will be a minority within their own country and thus loose the power to shape the way they live. And you call that freedom?


The story about the serbs is just the spark. Nobody was a "slave" in the Austro-Hungarian empire. Part of my family lived quite happily as Czech with German/Slavic/Italian roots. But you are right, it was not a democracy. But what you stated didn't make them any different then, let's say, a "pure" German family in Austria.
But there were strong national movements in all European countries at that time, so this lead to WW1, not some irrelevant conflict (globally) in the Balcans.

Still waiting for your example for a nationalist movement which didn't end in a war in the long run.

But back to today.
So you say, we should send the million Romanians und Bulgarians, the biggest groups of new foreigners by far in Germany, back home asap?
I mean they don't even share the same religion with most of us. Most of them have no clue about modern society, lack education and then they even don't speak German instantly and they come from countries which are quite backwards compared to Germany. (you see what I did there, with predjudices - this is not my personal view).

Btw she doesn't say, that Germans will be in the minority in this video. She says that it won't matter if there is any majority. In a healthy society you basically marry inbetween yourselves so sooner or later all will have a multicultural background. Especially Germany is one of the most mixed countries in the old world. You just have to look at the war history and know that a lot of different ethnicities had their part on the today population. There's probably a Roman, a French, a Swede, a Russian and some other Slavic influences in nearly all of us Germans. Also if I read the ancestry-project of an uncle correct, I have absolute zero relations to Northern Germans (Prussians) for the last 400 years. So why should I share nationalist thoughts with them, if I don't even share the same religion with them, but not with, let's say Hungarians, with who half of my family lived happily together in the same nation for a way longer time.

This mixing-through in Germany continued with mass immigration of Italian, Portugese and Spanish and later Turkish. With the Turkish being the only integration problem, because, guess what, their stupid nationalism.

And talking about freedom if you are a nationalist you don't really have the freedom to marry who you like.
Check your own background. There are probably just two outcomes:
1. you will have a lot of ancestors from different places
2. your ancestors will have been related to a very high possibility by living in small town for centuries.
Not sure what is healthier ;-)
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby amz » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 13:26

RugbyLiebe wrote:The story about the serbs is just the spark. Nobody was a "slave" in the Austro-Hungarian empire. Part of my family lived quite happily as Czech with German/Slavic/Italian roots. But you are right, it was not a democracy. But what you stated didn't make them any different then, let's say, a "pure" German family in Austria.
But there were strong national movements in all European countries at that time, so this lead to WW1, not some irrelevant conflict (globally) in the Balcans.


Errr, there is a popular saying here that when somebody is overworked, in a tyrannic manner than he's like an Austrian subject. No, for us Romanians Austro-Hungarian Empire (or Habsburg Empire before this) it is a dark memory and rebellions were constant and appeal to violence only a matter of time due to the inhumane treatment of authorities and lack of basic rights. Mind you, for many centuries, if you were orthodox christian you weren't considered exactly human being.

Back on topic, even with that ironic description of Romanian you miss the fact that the migrant workers are there by the law (Treaty of EU) and not as refugees. It mainly fulfill a basic need of work migration within EU and based on this Germans may also work here (and there are many German expats) so you cannot compare it with refugees situation.

I get it you are explaining to that thick head iul but hey, if you push it too far he'll have a point and yourself mention the Turkish who have decades in Germany and still are a different society; guess why, it's not nationalism but Islamism (the ideology, not Islam as religion). These exaggerations of PC, globalism, insisting to claim that we are all the same, that everyone can be integrated here and so on give the results we see today, resurgence of extremist-nationalistic movements all over Western World.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 13:28

dropkick wrote:Trump will be a great president. He'll boost their economy as well as protect the borders. :thumbup:


There's going to be more Trump like politicians voted in across Europe, which will be a victory for common sense.


There's also the rise of the nationalistic 'alt right' movement.


Can't tell if serious...

Fortunately he will be constrained by those in his own party, the legislative assembly and the judiciary; and very oddly his biggest opponents will be those in the GOP who don't really want the country run by an unthinking shambletwat who could quickly turn their party into the US equivalent of the Labour party here.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 14:07

amz wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:The story about the serbs is just the spark. Nobody was a "slave" in the Austro-Hungarian empire. Part of my family lived quite happily as Czech with German/Slavic/Italian roots. But you are right, it was not a democracy. But what you stated didn't make them any different then, let's say, a "pure" German family in Austria.
But there were strong national movements in all European countries at that time, so this lead to WW1, not some irrelevant conflict (globally) in the Balcans.


Errr, there is a popular saying here that when somebody is overworked, in a tyrannic manner than he's like an Austrian subject. No, for us Romanians Austro-Hungarian Empire (or Habsburg Empire before this) it is a dark memory and rebellions were constant and appeal to violence only a matter of time due to the inhumane treatment of authorities and lack of basic rights. Mind you, for many centuries, if you were orthodox christian you weren't considered exactly human being.


Never heard about it, but fair enough. Just wanted to make the point, that there isn't that big of a difference between citizens of different ethnicities in a monarchy by defintiion of different ethnicities. (The Habsburger Reich is really a one-of-its-kind-thing).

amz wrote:Back on topic, even with that ironic description of Romanian you miss the fact that the migrant workers are there by the law (Treaty of EU) and not as refugees. It mainly fulfill a basic need of work migration within EU and based on this Germans may also work here (and there are many German expats) so you cannot compare it with refugees situation.


Why should a nationalist make a difference there? Foreigner is foreigner. BY EU-treaty or not - its all not of their national background. Again: this is by far not my personal opinion, and I reckon that different people from different countries do enrich a nation.

amz wrote:I get it you are explaining to that thick head iul but hey, if you push it too far he'll have a point and yourself mention the Turkish who have decades in Germany and still are a different society; guess why, it's not nationalism but Islamism (the ideology, not Islam as religion). These exaggerations of PC, globalism, insisting to claim that we are all the same, that everyone can be integrated here and so on give the results we see today, resurgence of extremist-nationalistic movements all over Western World.


Not at all, religion didn't really play the slightest role until very recently. The new Turkish national movement uses it as a new symbol. The old Turkish national movement under Mustafe Kemal did the opposite. I do believe, that the Turkish would be integrated over time and that their new national movement is a big problem to make this work. But off course this is not a one sided thing. Some people simply can't be integrated, but I would never say, that a whole ethnicity is a problem. Also we are not the same. We have different backgrounds of who we are, but those backgrounds are in a constant change. Look at your parents, what were there backgrounds? What were the backgrounds of their parents and so on. It is an illusion, that a background doesn't change over generations.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby Bolaroid » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 14:38

I'm pleased for the US people, but I do fear for the Eastern Europeans now potentially under the threat of Putin.

Let us hope Vladimir behaves.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby Buffalo » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 15:29

Simpsons did it first. Which means following Trump we should see our first female president.

Took 151 years longer than some wanted but the Confederacy finally won the war. I saw a chart that said pitiful amounts of minorities voted in the election while white America rallied around the Donald. Incredibly disappointing if true as they could have swayed things. But at the end of the day the only ones who should be blamed for this result are the Democrats themselves. Of everyone in America they could have thrown their support behind they run out a crooked detestable individual in Hillary Clinton. How she was the best option they deemed they had to run for president will always confuse me. Now to just ride out the next four years, hope for the best and maybe the Democrats will get their shit together in 2020.

Also I for one welcome the death of NATO and the unopposed return of the Soviet Union. Only partially kidding but it is a realistic worry. Even for Canadians it's a bit unnerving as Russia is challenging our Arctic claims and regularly enough invades our air space like the bullheaded bully they are. If America isn't firmly in our corner, even if they have their own claims to the North, then things could get heated up there.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby dropkick » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 16:10

Ser Podrick of Payne wrote:
dropkick wrote:Trump will be a great president. He'll boost their economy as well as protect the borders. :thumbup:


There's going to be more Trump like politicians voted in across Europe, which will be a victory for common sense.


There's also the rise of the nationalistic 'alt right' movement.


Can't tell if serious...

Fortunately he will be constrained by those in his own party, the legislative assembly and the judiciary; and very oddly his biggest opponents will be those in the GOP who don't really want the country run by an unthinking shambletwat who could quickly turn their party into the US equivalent of the Labour party here.



I'm as serious as the millions of Americans who voted for him. ;)


For me it's not just about Donald Trump. He might not deport illegals or lower taxes but his win signifies something greater.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 16:30

dropkick wrote:..... but his win signifies something greater.

The day the world disappeared up its own arse?

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 16:57

Ser Podrick of Payne wrote:
dropkick wrote:..... but his win signifies something greater.

The day the world disappeared up its own arse?


The end of facts in discussions?
The "WWE-Wresteling-fication" of politics?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby iul » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 17:09

RugbyLiebe wrote:
iul wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
iul wrote:Nationalism is the only thing that keeps the people united against external and internal threats. It's the only path the people have to keep their freedom. :thumbup:


Can you name any examples of your theory? We are now up to 70+ years without a war and counting in Germany - without nationalism. The longest period ever and you know we enjoyed a good brawl in the past.

Examples of nationalism leading to wars and terror: WW1, WW2, Balkan War, nationalism in Bask country, Kosovo-War and the list goes on. Actually I can't even think about a single nationalist movement who didn't lead to less freedom for the people.

So, the Serbs should have accepted to become the Austrian emperor's slaves? They should have accepted to be oppressed, to not have any say in how they lead their lives and what their destiny should be, and instead accept being the subjects of an emperor who couldn't give two shits about them? And you call that freedom?

Look at what the lack of nationalism is doing to your country. You have members of the elite openly cheering for the times the Germans will be a minority within their own country and thus loose the power to shape the way they live. And you call that freedom?


The story about the serbs is just the spark. Nobody was a "slave" in the Austro-Hungarian empire. Part of my family lived quite happily as Czech with German/Slavic/Italian roots. But you are right, it was not a democracy. But what you stated didn't make them any different then, let's say, a "pure" German family in Austria.
But there were strong national movements in all European countries at that time, so this lead to WW1, not some irrelevant conflict (globally) in the Balcans.

As amz has told you, the Austro-Hungarian empire was brutal for those living under their boot.
But you haven't answered my question... what should the Serbs have done? They were faced with their state no longer existing and them living under the boot of the Austrian emperor. What should they have done?

RugbyLiebe wrote:Still waiting for your example for a nationalist movement which didn't end in a war in the long run.

I doubt there is such an example. Nationalism is about freedom. Freedom doesn't come cheap. Somebody always wants to oppress you, to take away your freedom, to take away your right for self determination, but you have to stand up against them. What should the Serbs have done before WW1? What should the colonies have done? Should they have allowed themselves to be ruled by their masters forever? What should the Ukrainians do right now? Should they allow themselves to be taken over by the Russian tourists? There's no other way, you have to defend your freedom.

RugbyLiebe wrote:But back to today.
So you say, we should send the million Romanians und Bulgarians, the biggest groups of new foreigners by far in Germany, back home asap?

I mean they don't even share the same religion with most of us. Most of them have no clue about modern society, lack education and then they even don't speak German instantly and they come from countries which are quite backwards compared to Germany. (you see what I did there, with predjudices - this is not my personal view).

You got a million muslims last year, I very much doubt you got more Romanians and Bulgarians than that, but yes, the Germans should do what's best for themselves, including kicking out / not letting in foreigners if that's what's best for the Germans.


RugbyLiebe wrote:Btw she doesn't say, that Germans will be in the minority in this video. She says that it won't matter if there is any majority. In a healthy society you basically marry inbetween yourselves so sooner or later all will have a multicultural background. Especially Germany is one of the most mixed countries in the old world. You just have to look at the war history and know that a lot of different ethnicities had their part on the today population. There's probably a Roman, a French, a Swede, a Russian and some other Slavic influences in nearly all of us Germans. Also if I read the ancestry-project of an uncle correct, I have absolute zero relations to Northern Germans (Prussians) for the last 400 years. So why should I share nationalist thoughts with them, if I don't even share the same religion with them, but not with, let's say Hungarians, with who half of my family lived happily together in the same nation for a way longer time.

This mixing-through in Germany continued with mass immigration of Italian, Portugese and Spanish and later Turkish. With the Turkish being the only integration problem, because, guess what, their stupid nationalism.

It won't matter if there is any majority means Germans will be in the minority. How will life in Germany be when muslims are the majority there?

RugbyLiebe wrote:And talking about freedom if you are a nationalist you don't really have the freedom to marry who you like.
Check your own background. There are probably just two outcomes:
1. you will have a lot of ancestors from different places
2. your ancestors will have been related to a very high possibility by living in small town for centuries.
Not sure what is healthier ;-)

I don't know where you got this idea. Nobody says nobody should ever be allowed to move to your country from some other place, but that that should be done sensibly.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby iul » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 17:10

Buffalo wrote:Simpsons did it first. Which means following Trump we should see our first female president.

Took 151 years longer than some wanted but the Confederacy finally won the war. I saw a chart that said pitiful amounts of minorities voted in the election while white America rallied around the Donald. Incredibly disappointing if true as they could have swayed things. But at the end of the day the only ones who should be blamed for this result are the Democrats themselves. Of everyone in America they could have thrown their support behind they run out a crooked detestable individual in Hillary Clinton. How she was the best option they deemed they had to run for president will always confuse me. Now to just ride out the next four years, hope for the best and maybe the Democrats will get their shit together in 2020.

Also I for one welcome the death of NATO and the unopposed return of the Soviet Union. Only partially kidding but it is a realistic worry. Even for Canadians it's a bit unnerving as Russia is challenging our Arctic claims and regularly enough invades our air space like the bullheaded bully they are. If America isn't firmly in our corner, even if they have their own claims to the North, then things could get heated up there.

President Ivanka Trump :thumbup: :D

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby iul » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 17:14

Ser Podrick of Payne wrote:
dropkick wrote:..... but his win signifies something greater.

The day the world disappeared up its own arse?

The day the people started standing up for themselves, although, to be fair Brexit came before that. I hope Trump will tour Europe next year and promote nationalistic feelings, the same way he has done in the US. That would be fantastic, because there are lots of parliamentary elections next year. I would have to go to the emergency room after having a 10 hour boner if the AfD and FN won the elections in Germany and France.

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby Vova12 » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 17:29

My congratulations to the American people! :thumbup:
Image

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Re: All Hail President Trump

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Wed, 09 Nov 2016, 17:33

iul wrote:
Ser Podrick of Payne wrote:
dropkick wrote:..... but his win signifies something greater.

The day the world disappeared up its own arse?

The day the people started standing up for themselves, although, to be fair Brexit came before that. I hope Trump will tour Europe next year and promote nationalistic feelings, the same way he has done in the US. That would be fantastic, because there are lots of parliamentary elections next year. I would have to go to the emergency room after having a 10 hour boner if the AfD and FN won the elections in Germany and France.

It's like shitting in your own hotel bed as a protest against poor service, then realising you've got to now sleep in a shitted bed.

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