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Re: Immigration

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 08:25

dropkick wrote:Of course you were told a few years ago that how great you German people were for bailing out the Irish people. Thats bullshit. The private Irish banks (of which a large percentage were German owned) failed because they gambled and lost. They've been bailed out by the Irish people. Same thing happened in Iceland but they rightfully told the banks and everyone else that they wouldn't pay for a private business failing.


We weren't told that, I just remember what a dirt poor country Ireland was when I was there for the first time in the 90ies. With no roads etc.

dropkick wrote:I've told you before about Ireland giving up the fishing waters to the EU. The amount of money lost there dwarfs anything that the EU has given. Its basically Ireland subsidising southern European countries. Ireland had to give that up when joining the EU. Of course it was supposed to be about free trade so its interesting that Ireland was blocked from trading freely until the EU got something valuable.


The fishing waters. Yeah, every country who has fishing waters is known for being the richest nation on earth. What are you smoking?

dropkick wrote:Yes Ireland was dirt before due to being colonised. All the wealth in the country was taken out and went to London. But after that the country introduced many socialist policies and naturally enough remained poor. It was only after copying the capitalist American model did the country become wealthy.


As for the tax, are you seriously saying Ireland is bad for having low tax? You do know that low taxes creates wealth? Even the moronic Irish politicians (kind of) understand that low taxes are good.


Trickle down economics are a thing of the past. They never ever worked but create huge and growing wealth gaps.
And no Ireland did not create wealth by lowering taxes, EU subsidies did and destroying jobs elsewhere did make you grow. I am not talking about lowering taxes for incentives, which to a degree makes indeed sense for a poor-house. I am talking about creating willingly tax-loopholes to make multi-national-companies better of than middle class companies. Problem with the EU is that to many free-market-no-brainers have a say and there wasn't something created like, if you lower your tax under a certain percentage of the European median, you have to give up your subsidies.

dropkick wrote:As for countries making the most out of the EU, theres one country heading that list. Good old Deutschland. They've the most power and do everything to help themselves. I just saw the other week how the EU is negotiating with some South American country about buying more beef off them in exchange for them importing more cars. Irish farmers were not happy but German car makers were. Germany wins again.


Because Germany was dead poor before the EU :roll: We were quite well off before. But yeah a country with 9 neighbouring countries in the middle of Europe profits from open boarders and a European Union. What a surprise. But you are quite inconsistent here. German conservatives are bad, but Irish are good? Where is the logic behind that?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Immigration

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 08:38

Vova12 wrote:Our values .

We are not a USA occupied country.


That's not a value. That's political decision.

Vova12 wrote:In Russia freedom of press.
We in Russia can talk about any topic. You can even deny Holocaust no one will do anything to you.

Why were there some tv stations and newspapers shut down then?
If somebody is denying Holocaust, this is simply so stupid, that only the stupidity should be a reason to put the person in jail.

Vova12 wrote:In Russia democracy and we ourselves choos leaders.

Nothing against Putin, but having a former secret service member as a president, that's an interesting twist.
Who doesn't chose their leader in the West by that definition?

Vova12 wrote:There are no lesons in our schools that propagande homosexualisty.

Some people are gay, what's the problem with that? I have gay friends. And I am happy for them that they can live whatever way they want, and there are less and less people in our country who make them feel bad about who they love. If it is between two adults and consentual. Where is the bloody problem? Why not tell kids, that some people might have a different sexual orientation than the norm.

Vova12 wrote:We do not accept in their country loafers and parasits from around World.

If people have a parasite we send them to a doctor. That helps. WE don't accept loafers as well, but there a situations in a life of a human where he needs a helping hand. Why give up this social security because some people exploit it?

Vova12 wrote:We do not have political correctnes, we say what"s on our mind.

Fair enough, what if I am gay and want to kiss my boy-friend openly on the street? It is my choice and on my mind, right?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 15:04

No! This incomparable feeling of a citizen of a free country!
This value is called Freedom!

Could it be more detailed about closed newspapers and TV?

Denying the Holocaust is certainly stupid, but a person can do this and he will not be sent to prison for this.
A person can think that the land is square or that the Americans were on the moon.

This value is called FREEDOM !

For Putin a lot more than 50% Russian.
He naturally wins elections.

For Yeltsin was 5% and he won in 96 with help of the United States.
The West loved him and Yeltsin was a democrat.

The US intervenes in any election in Europe. In Eastern Europe with the help of media and organization of riots, in Western Europe with the help of "soft power".

This is a well known fact.This value is called the European unfreedom.

I"m not against gays. I"m against stories about homosexuality to children!
I"m against the lessons of sex in school!
This value is called -protection of children!

A person must work and earn a living!
Anyone can come to Russia but he must make money himself!
This value is called - equity!

I"m talking about something else.
With the growth of ethnic crime in Germany yours are afraid to call it your own words.
This value is Freedom of speech.
Political correctness is a new form of Western hypocrisy.

My wife helped write this, I myself would not have written it! :D
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Re: Immigration

Postby dropkick » Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 17:11

RugbyLiebe wrote:
dropkick wrote:Of course you were told a few years ago that how great you German people were for bailing out the Irish people. Thats bullshit. The private Irish banks (of which a large percentage were German owned) failed because they gambled and lost. They've been bailed out by the Irish people. Same thing happened in Iceland but they rightfully told the banks and everyone else that they wouldn't pay for a private business failing.


We weren't told that, I just remember what a dirt poor country Ireland was when I was there for the first time in the 90ies. With no roads etc.



Ireland had no roads in the 80s? Ireland has had roads for thousands of years. Ancient WOODEN roads have been found preserved in bogs. Obviously they were built for economic reasons at the time. And as for Ireland being dirt poor in the 80s, thats wrong.


Btw are you an ethnic German?


RugbyLiebe wrote:The fishing waters. Yeah, every country who has fishing waters is known for being the richest nation on earth. What are you smoking?



I didn't say that but isn't it interesting that Iceland or Norway have not been in much of a rush to join the wonderful EU. Surely they should know about all the wonderful things that awaits.


RugbyLiebe wrote:Trickle down economics are a thing of the past. They never ever worked but create huge and growing wealth gaps.
And no Ireland did not create wealth by lowering taxes, EU subsidies did and destroying jobs elsewhere did make you grow. I am not talking about lowering taxes for incentives, which to a degree makes indeed sense for a poor-house. I am talking about creating willingly tax-loopholes to make multi-national-companies better of than middle class companies. Problem with the EU is that to many free-market-no-brainers have a say and there wasn't something created like, if you lower your tax under a certain percentage of the European median, you have to give up your subsidies.



Irish people works long hours. Thats what creates wealth. Taxes drains it. EU subsidies are nonsense. They take from one hand and give with the other. The British people know this.


RugbyLiebe wrote:Because Germany was dead poor before the EU :roll: We were quite well off before. But yeah a country with 9 neighbouring countries in the middle of Europe profits from open boarders and a European Union. What a surprise. But you are quite inconsistent here. German conservatives are bad, but Irish are good? Where is the logic behind that?



I didn't call German conservatives bad. I doubt there are many conservative politicians in Germany. I was making a point on how they can use their position to profit German ahead of other countries. I don't blame them, I blame the Irish politicians.

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Re: Immigration

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 08:01

dropkick wrote:Ireland had no roads in the 80s? Ireland has had roads for thousands of years. Ancient WOODEN roads have been found preserved in bogs. Obviously they were built for economic reasons at the time. And as for Ireland being dirt poor in the 80s, thats wrong.


Sorry, my mistake. With roads I meant roads bigger than streets in a city or country roads. Dublin apparently had some km of a new motorway at that time.
About Ireland being dirt poor in the 80ies, that's relative, but fair enough.

dropkick wrote:I didn't say that but isn't it interesting that Iceland or Norway have not been in much of a rush to join the wonderful EU. Surely they should know about all the wonderful things that awaits.


Well those 350.000 people and the economy of Iceland do heavily rely on fishing (90% in the 60ies, 40% as of today) this combined with their love for whale meat is understandable. Norway has oil, that's probably even more important than fishing, but they have joined (as Iceland did actually) most European trade arrangement. Norway is even a part of Schengen.


dropkick wrote:Btw are you an ethnic German?


If there is such a thing, yes.
Why?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Immigration

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 08:41

Vova12 wrote:Denying the Holocaust is certainly stupid, but a person can do this and he will not be sent to prison for this.
A person can think that the land is square or that the Americans were on the moon.

This value is called FREEDOM !


Well our society is build on the fact that we won't kill others again because of their race or religion. Actually quite a good base for a more or less peaceful country and a thrieving society. If you deny the holocaust you deny this principle.
De facto this is actually more a law against telling other people to use violence against anyone because solely of their ethnicity and this leads to the phrase were you are not allowed to justify the Nazi-killings, as this would justify violence against someone because of their ethnicity.
I mean the freedom of a sole individual stops where it denies the freedom of another one. And that's Holocaust denying and therefore rightfully forbidden.
Thinking that the earth is flat is also stupid, but it harms nobody else.


Vova12 wrote:With the growth of ethnic crime in Germany yours are afraid to call it your own words.
This value is Freedom of speech.
Political correctness is a new form of Western hypocrisy.


The only crimes that have risen significantly are right-wing related crimes. Funwise especially in areas with not a lot of foreigners present anyway.
Don't get my wrong, we finally need immigration laws and if somebody has no good reason to ask for asylum it is time to leave the country for them.
Especially if somebody is indeed a criminal.
But this small numbers are not reason enough to discriminate the way bigger numbers of people in need. Of people willing to work hard, as dropkick stated it before.
Or as stated before, if a village of 1000 has one idiot, will you burn the 1000 because of this one guy. Our society still has a large majority clearly rejecting this.

Fear of immigrants is always related to right wing politics which always use that to cover policies to help rich people get more money. But I agree that the left has a tendency to be '"über"correct on some aspects of political correctness, which leads to them losing their former voters.

Vova12 wrote:I"m not against gays. I"m against stories about homosexuality to children!
I"m against the lessons of sex in school!
This value is called -protection of children!


No its not. Why not tell children, that some people are homosexuals and that's also okay. It doesn't make kids gay, but makes a difference to the one kid you statistically have in every class who is gay.

That's also freedom to reduce hate of others for something which the other can't change and which doesn't actually disturb anybody else.

Greetings to your wife, a nice discussion this is.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 17:06

RugbyLiebe wrote:Greetings to your wife, a nice discussion this is.

She knows English much better than me, but it"s my thoughts))
I will answer tomorrow, today iwill drink beer. :D
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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Sat, 14 Jul 2018, 07:49

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Well our society is build on the fact that we won't kill others again because of their race or religion. Actually quite a good base for a more or less peaceful country and a thrieving society. If you deny the holocaust you deny this principle.
De facto this is actually more a law against telling other people to use violence against anyone because solely of their ethnicity and this leads to the phrase were you are not allowed to justify the Nazi-killings, as this would justify violence against someone because of their ethnicity.
I mean the freedom of a sole individual stops where it denies the freedom of another one. And that's Holocaust denying and therefore rightfully forbidden.
Thinking that the earth is flat is also stupid, but it harms nobody else.




And can you deny Tutsi genocide? And the genocid of NA Indians?
Biblial extermination of Canaanites by Jews?
Why do many Western countries ( US and Britain) not recogniz Armenian Genocide?

Okay. Books of "revisionists" are freely sold in Russia, some writers live in Russia fearing persecution in Europe.

Basically they do not agree with the number of victims and ways of destroying people (gas chamber).

These people are scientists and historians. They do not call to kill anyone!

The extermination of Jews in Eastern Europe by local collaborantors (Germans tried not to injure their soldiers), and sometimes without the participation of the Germans were terribl.

In Lithuania and began to kill Jews before the Germans arrived. In Estonia they destroyed ALL of their Jews. None survived!

https://humus.livejournal.com/5773257.html

And these are the ancestors of the current Western allies from Ukraine.(by the way ask Poles about the events in Volhyni 1943)

https://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/5732718.html

The cry of Croatian asshole footballer "Slava Ukraine" is a greeting of these bastards.
And now these bastard countries are oppresing their Russian and prohibit Russian schools.
But they know that we are watching them, that"s why they need NATO.
But NATO will not save them.
The descendants of these bastards now live in the West.
After the begining of the Cold War they all began to be used against the USSR by going to work in the CIA and other Western intelligence.
The USSR repeatedli demanded extradition of these killers, but to no availe!

So when i hear Western groans about the Holocast, i do not believe them.
I do not mean Germany, it is primarily Canada and the US where tens of thousands of bloody bastards have found shelter.

The Holocaust is a weapon against Germany that would keep it under control.
The invaders will forever force the Germans to pay and repent.

As soon as a German leader apears who will not suit your German invaders, they will immediately remind you of Holocaust ...

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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Sat, 14 Jul 2018, 08:17

Now Russia has no problems with Germany. I read this book in Russian advise you to read it too. Its a book written after Cold War.

https://www.aschendorff-buchverlag.de/a ... C%20Willy/

He talks about something happening to him in Soviet captivity.
He tells such a story.

Several thousand prisoners including Willy stopped for the night in Poland.
They were built and ordered all non Germans to take a step forward.
Willie thougt that now all Germans would be shot, but remained standing.
There are about 200 left in the line.

An officer came out and said.
"It"s clear with the Germans, we fought against them. These are our enemies, but the rest will have serious problems".
The Germans were placed under a roof and fed, and the rest slept under the open sky and hungry.

We are a bit different from Europeans.
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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Sat, 14 Jul 2018, 08:23

By the way, this Willy made child in captivity and now he has Russian grandchildren!

TV program about Willy. Watch from 26 minutes.
And this is a meeting with his love. He was looking for her all this time.

https://ok.ru/video/756616831

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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Sat, 14 Jul 2018, 13:58

RugbyLiebe wrote:
No its not. Why not tell children, that some people are homosexuals and that's also okay. It doesn't make kids gay, but makes a difference to the one kid you statistically have in every class who is gay.

That's also freedom to reduce hate of others for something which the other can't change and which doesn't actually disturb anybody else.


This not normal!
I respect right of everyone to dispos of his ass at his own discretion, but let them leave the children alone!
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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Sat, 14 Jul 2018, 14:13

RugbyLiebe wrote:
The only crimes that have risen significantly are right-wing related crimes. Funwise especially in areas with not a lot of foreigners present anyway.
Don't get my wrong, we finally need immigration laws and if somebody has no good reason to ask for asylum it is time to leave the country for them.
Especially if somebody is indeed a criminal.
But this small numbers are not reason enough to discriminate the way bigger numbers of people in need. Of people willing to work hard, as dropkick stated it before.
Or as stated before, if a village of 1000 has one idiot, will you burn the 1000 because of this one guy. Our society still has a large majority clearly rejecting this.

Fear of immigrants is always related to right wing politics which always use that to cover policies to help rich people get more money. But I agree that the left has a tendency to be '"über"correct on some aspects of political correctness, which leads to them losing their former voters.


Remember ! Yours do not owe anything to anyone!
Germany is not Jesus that would feed all the needy with five loaves of bread and two fish!

Why do these people need help? Because the US and its allies bombed the countries of these peoples!

Do you know how much money you need to get to Germany from Afghanistan or Central Africa? Really needy people do not have opportunity to leave their countries.

Sorry i do not believe.
I think that this is the manipulations of statistiks.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/d ... 04160.html
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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Wed, 18 Jul 2018, 17:30

However, some times conscienc wakes up.

https://www.salon.com/2018/07/14/my-gra ... laborator/
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Re: Immigration

Postby Tobar » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:55

Why do many Western countries ( US and Britain) not recogniz Armenian Genocide?


This article should help understand why - it's purely a political reason, and a bad one at that. Turkey is an important ally to the US and has been since the Cold War. The country happens to be run by a dictator and our government doesn't do anything to actually fix that problem. But many states and people within the states do not deny the Armenian genocide. In fact, the US government doesn't either but they won't call it a genocide or else Erdogan will freak the fuck out.

The US government has a history of acting righteous yet picking allies based solely on strategic gains. Lots of countries do this and I don't agree with it all the time. People in the US also don't agree with it (but at least we can publicly disagree with the actions and not fear for our lives, so that's something). But I find it concerning that y'all think that we're teaching kids how to be gay over here, like that actually happens....we teach sex ed because, well, statistically it reduces the number of teen pregnancies and STDs. If you have doubts over that come to the US and look at states with sex ed and states without....the ones without have tons of problems. I'd prefer not to live in a place that would rather stick their heads in the sand and pretend that if sex doesn't exist that kids won't have it. And this isn't a knock specifically on Russia, since i just mentioned there are plenty of people in the US with this backwards belief.

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Re: Immigration

Postby Tobar » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 15:08

RugbyLiebe wrote:I mean the freedom of a sole individual stops where it denies the freedom of another one.


There's a great quote here in the US for this - "Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man's nose begins." I am of the opinion that people should generally be allowed to do whatever they want as long as there isn't a chance that it will cause harm to others. The issue is that people may see the end result and think that is justification. An example of this is someone running a red light - "If no one got hurt then it should be fine!" Except for the fact that someone will eventually get hurt by this.

It gets more complicated when it comes to issues about free speech, education, family values or religion. I am personally against almost all anti-free speech - including laws against Holocaust denial - but understand completely why Germany would institute a law like that. It's a very gray area.

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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 12:48

Tobar wrote:It gets more complicated when it comes to issues about free speech, education, family values or religion. I am personally against almost all anti-free speech - including laws against Holocaust denial - but understand completely why Germany would institute a law like that. It's a very gray area.

In Europe for such views you can get a prison term not only in Germany.
In Austria, France, Belgium you can also get a prison term.

In Russia too there is Law № 254 "On Reabilitation of Nazism" but i do not know of anyone convicted on basis this Law.

In Russia books of revisionists of Irving and Graf, traitor Viktor Suvorov ... are freely publised and these books are not forbiden.

In Russia you can publicly compare Stalin and Hitler, call USSR an ally of Hitler"s Germany, call any number of victims of World War ...

Hitler"s "Mein Kampf" was recently banned unfortunately.But you can still buy.

https://www.avito.ru/moskva/knigi_i_zhu ... 0%B5%D1%80
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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 13:03

Tobar wrote:
Why do many Western countries ( US and Britain) not recogniz Armenian Genocide?


This article should help understand why - it's purely a political reason, and a bad one at that. Turkey is an important ally to the US and has been since the Cold War. The country happens to be run by a dictator and our government doesn't do anything to actually fix that problem. But many states and people within the states do not deny the Armenian genocide. In fact, the US government doesn't either but they won't call it a genocide or else Erdogan will freak the fuck out.

The US government has a history of acting righteous yet picking allies based solely on strategic gains. Lots of countries do this and I don't agree with it all the time. People in the US also don't agree with it (but at least we can publicly disagree with the actions and not fear for our lives, so that's something). But I find it concerning that y'all think that we're teaching kids how to be gay over here, like that actually happens....we teach sex ed because, well, statistically it reduces the number of teen pregnancies and STDs. If you have doubts over that come to the US and look at states with sex ed and states without....the ones without have tons of problems. I'd prefer not to live in a place that would rather stick their heads in the sand and pretend that if sex doesn't exist that kids won't have it. And this isn't a knock specifically on Russia, since i just mentioned there are plenty of people in the US with this backwards belief.

I believe that if yours position yourself as World moral authority US must recognize Armenian Genocide.
If political expedincy is main thing then it is not necesary to impos moral values on other countris.

Russia recognized Armenian Genocide in 1995.
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Re: Immigration

Postby Tobar » Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 16:58

I agree, the US should recognize the genocide.

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Re: Immigration

Postby Vova12 » Thu, 02 Aug 2018, 15:46

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Re: Immigration

Postby amz » Wed, 08 Aug 2018, 20:46

Tobar wrote:I agree, the US should recognize the genocide.


Yeah Romania should do this too but for political reasons it wasn't recongnized . But in our defense, we were the first country to open for refugees to settle here.

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