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'ISIS' in a Nutshell

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 08:51

The Telegraph is a British newspaper. Britain is one of the countries which has been bombing the Middle East. Doh!

The self-designated Islamic State ( IS; Arabic: الدولة الإسلامية‎ al-Dawlah al-Islāmīyah )


According to whom? I said 'probably' they don't have a name, because I haven't actually asked them personally.And I have read several (non-US/UK) reports which indeed suggest this.

Anyway, my intention has at no point been to justify the actions of the rebels and terrorists, and the only apologists are those trying to justify the nations which created them in the first place. My intention has been to give the issue some perspective. The inevitable rise of extremists and terrorists following A) the bombing of their homelands, and B) the supply of arms and training so that they could fight a mutual enemy on America's behalf, then C) the failure to remove Assad, has provided the US with an excuse to return troops to the region, secure the oil fields and also enter Syria itself - where they have already slaughtered dozens of civilians, including women and children. This is simply the latest extention of US imperialism, the corporate-controlled mass media has played its part as always, and experts quoted in various newspapers (such as The Australian) have questioned the authenticity of the beheading videos.
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 09:47

That well known fount of pro Western propanganda

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeas ... 78444.html

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 10:31

& there are dozens of reports suggesting it is fake.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/isis-behea ... 10/5399345

http://investmentwatchblog.com/explaine ... -are-fake/

http://topinfopost.com/2014/09/02/the-m ... sor-itself

http://www.infowars.com/experts-james-f ... kely-fake/

Even your precious Telegraph has published doubts about the clip's authenticity: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/ ... taged.html

& the Haines 'beheading' http://nodisinfo.com/beheading-british- ... otal-fake/

Anyhow, there is no way that anyone can be sure right now, though I personally have my doubts about these 'beheading' videos. But neither this nor the alleged name/naming of the rebels are key to contextual background of the situation and the extent to which the US and its allies have brought it about. The only point being made is that, when it comes to US wars and interventions abroad, media propaganda plays a major role in duping the public.

Remember this before the (first) invasion of Iraq?



:evil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_(testimony)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 89x1646948
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Sables4EVA » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 12:30


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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 13:53

Sables4EVA wrote:http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/flavors-of-nonsense/

Or to put it another way

Image

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 15:40

Rowan wrote:Probably they do not have a name for themselves. Why would they? They're not a rock band. They are a loose collection of rebels from all around the region, many of them displaced by American attacks on the region, who were armed and trained to fight Assad in Syria, only to find themselves abandoned when the US failed to bomb Damascus as planned. No longer safe in Syria, they've crossed the border into Iraq, whence many of them came, but where they are also unwelcome, and are thus attempting to fight for a state of their own. The West gives such rebels Islamic-sounding names and refers to them, rightly or wrongly, as 'terrorists' - thus demonizing the religion in the minds of the general public of those Christian nations which are bombing the Middle East. Al Qaeda is a classic example of this. Prior to the invention of the IS and Khorasan, almost every act of terrorism, rebellion or simple resistance committed by Muslims throughout the world was either attributed to or associated with that "organization," increasingly often with the meaningless reference 'Al Qaeda-inspired.' In this manner the media propaganda ties them to 9/11 in the minds of the American public. It is certainly questionable whether any such 'organization' as 'Al Qaeda' actually exists.

An international forensic company studied the video of the Foley execution and established that no blood could be seen and that sounds allegedly made by Foley did not seem authentic. This report was published in The Australian newspaper. The Global Mirror questioned why the actual execution was edited when the gruesome image of the decapitated head is shown at the end. Did the evil terrorists censor their own beheading video to avoid disturbing small children? Terrorists such as those armed by the US and its allies to fight Assad invariably, while slaughtering civilians, declare 'Allahu Akbar' (God is Great) during religiously-motivated executions. No such cry was heard on the Foley clip. Experts have also established that, whereas other such executions carried out by terrorists are invariably unstable and grainy, the video of Foley was shot on an HD camera and professionally-edited. Indeed, the clip looks as though it could have been shot in Hollywood, with no wind nor dust in this 'desert' landscape. The parents of Foley appeared in front of the mass media within 24 hours of the alleged execution. Does that seem normal?


But, as mentioned, the main issue here is not whether the rebels/terrorists have a name or not, nor whether the beheading videos were authentic or fake (as the Kuwaiti girl's above was proved to be). That is a side issue which simply calls into question the credibility of the American media, which has invariably been an instrument of government propaganda in times of war and foreign intervention.

Of course, the real issue here is to what extent the US and its allies helped to create this situation, whether further US military presence and bombing campaigns (already claiming more civilian lives in both Syria and Iraq) is actually going to help or simply worsen the the problem, and just what the motives for this latest intervention in oil-rich Islamic nations on the other side of the planet are.
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby 4N » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 18:28

IS just chopped the heads off of some Kurdish ladies and displayed them on social media. Presumably even the most ardent conspiracy theorist takes that at face value (no pun intended).

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby NedRugby » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 20:30

Its not there fault though, the americans made them do it.

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 20:43

The only conspiracy theorists are those who unquestionably accept all the propaganda they are fed, despite evidence of numerous lies having been told, from the origins of the Spanish-American War to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the Kuwaiti girl (see earlier this thread) and her "babies-were-thrown-out-of-incubators" performance, and Bush Jr's WOMD claims. Those were just a few of the conspiracies that duped the US public into accepting the case for war. There are dozens of others.

So people are sitting at home on their couches watching these professionally-made and edited videos supposedly of beheadings, and meanwhile the US and its allies are dropping yet more bombs and turning yet more innocent men, women and children into jam. You aren't shown this carnage, of course. Only the local Arabs who clean up the mess afterward are forced to witness this, and they have done so on a routine basis for many years now.

Not forgetting, also, that the US and its allies actually created this situation, and were giving their full support while they were beheading civilians in Syria. Yes, video clips of those incidents were shown in this part of the world, and there were many. I doubt that they were shown on any of the major networks in the West (though I wouldn't know about that).

Probably it suits some people to just imagine Arabs in general are simply born evil terrorists and require bombing on a regular basis, and that, furthermore, it is only natural the Christian nation of America should be the one to send its forces around the globe to do this. Nothing to do with imperialist designs on an oil-rich region and the multi-billion dollar military industrial complex, lucrative arms deals and rebuilding contracts ... :roll:

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby 4N » Thu, 02 Oct 2014, 19:42

Rowan wrote:Probably it suits some people to just imagine Arabs in general are simply born evil terrorists and require bombing on a regular basis, and that, furthermore, it is only natural the Christian nation of America should be the one to send its forces around the globe to do this.


Utterly simplistic. Many IS goons aren't Arab and the vast majority of their victims are non-Sunni Arabs. And the role of Christianity in the west is rapidly diminishing, to the benefit of society.

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Thu, 02 Oct 2014, 20:55

Many IS goons aren't Arab and the vast majority of their victims are non-Sunni Arabs.


What part of " it suits some people to just imagine" didn't you understand? :roll:

Besides, who mentioned Sunni?

the role of Christianity in the west is rapidly diminishing


Who mentioned the role of Christianity? I mentioned the role of Christian nations. That's very different. However, I am not sure I agree with you. American Christians are financing a lot of carnage in the Middle East, notably in Palestine. :evil:

It's pretty obvious now Obama is nothing but a puppet who campaigned on a bunch of lies, even publishing a book for the purpose. So much for calling Bush Jr's' wars 'dumb.' I guess that makes 'dumb and dumber,' except that neither of them have actually been involved in policy-making.

No surprise then that Obama is the 4th president in succession to launch a war in Iraq. The Afghanistan war continues, Libya's in a mess,, drones are killing civilians in Pakistan and Yemen, and now, with practically no debate, Obama's got the troops back in the Middle East to bomb rebels in both Iraq and Syria which his government helped to create. The civilian death toll is already mounting, and we're being told this 'clean-up' operation could take 'years...' Thus we can fully anticipate a 5th successive president at war with already decimated-beyond-repair Iraq.

Yet, according to the UN Charter, one country may not attack another unless it is in self-defense or requested by another government, and authorized by the UN. The puppet-government installed by the US in Iraq may have conveniently requested America provide the security it has so far failed to provide during 11 years of war, but in Syria not one of the UN Charter conditions applies - making the bombing illegal.

Certainly the rebels pose no threat to the US itself, and the case for pre-emptive strikes was thoroughly discredited by Bush Jr's invasion of Iraq on the false pretext of WOMD. America's ongoing involvement in the oil-rich region is clearly an extension of its imperial designs.

Former General Wesley Clark has already informed the world that Syria is one of several Middle Eastern nations that were included on an American hit-list after 9/11 (see video-taped confession earlier this thread). Now, having failed to topple Assad by arming and training rebels, the US has gone into Syrian territory itself - to bomb those very same rebels!!
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Tue, 28 Jul 2015, 12:36

So what's going on in Turkey right now? The Kurdish minority's main political party, the DHP, had a much improved showing in the recent elections, the ruling AKP party lost its outright majority, and a coalition government will be formed - the Kurdish party to be a major player. Meanwhile, across the border in Syria, the Kurds have been gaining recognition and credibility for their efforts in fighting ISIS, whose history can be read atop this thread. Seemingly out of the blue, a Turkish youth with suspected links to ISIS bombs a gathering of Kurdish activists in Turkey - many of them young women. The Kurdish militants blame the government for this, for reasons which are explained atop this thread, and responded by killing a number of Turkish police officers. The Turkish government, in turn, responded by bombing both ISIS and Kurdish militants in northern Syria - mostly Kurds, by all accounts. This has led to protests around Turkey, with a couple of deaths reported so far (one a policeman), and further protests - including peace protests - have been banned. This has more or less ended the peace negotiations between Turks and Kurds, undoing a lot of hard work done by the ruling party during its lengthy tenure. The Kurds represent almost a fifth of the population of Turkey, and are the majority in parts of the south-east, where their presence pre-dates the Turks. They are considered to have migrated from Iran over a thousand years ago. There are about one million Kurds in Syria, the majority thought to have migrated there during Ottoman times. Meanwhile, the high court has opened a case against the DHP for inciting violence. Turkey has now given the US permission to use its military base to bomb inside Syria, and NATO has naturally given its full support to Turkey. NATO and Turkey also have in common a desire to remove Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, whose army has been locked in a struggle against ISIS - a terrorist group which morphed out of militant rebels originally backed by you know who. Figure all that out . . .
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Tue, 04 Aug 2015, 21:28

The whole region is a quagmire. Washington has no strategy and the best course of action, more like the least bad, is to gradually disengage, pick a side they want to win and fund them with weapons and money. ISIS is a cockroach and could easily be crushed if we really wanted to; however, they serve somewhat of a useful purpose and are fighting a whole bunch of our enemies for us so it's a win-win. We don't like them very much but they happen to be taking it to Iran and it's pawns (Hezbollah, Assad) as well as Russia. We will engage just enough to keep them from growing to strong but otherwise just let them keep killing each other.

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Tue, 04 Aug 2015, 22:27

But Washington does have a strategy, and it involves getting rid of al-Assad. General Wesley Clark revealed this a couple of years back (see video earlier this thread), and, indeed, the US has attacked 6/7 of the countries he said it would, either directly or by proxy. Iran is the only one left standing. Al-Assad is a problem not because he is a dictator. The US supports dictators in Saudi and Egypt, no problem, and actually prefers them to democracies because dictators can be controlled or got rid of whereas populations can't. Al-Assad is a problem because he is non-compliant, and all must bow to the whims of the empire or be eliminated (like Saddam and Gaddafi). The Saudis and Turkey want al-Assad out because he is an Alawite leader of a predominantly Sunni population, and these two nations both regard themselves as the leader of Sunni Islam. So 'Al Qaeda' (just means Saudi-backed terrorists) were re-branded 'ISIS' and sent in to do the job. But mostly they just went about butchering civilians. They've continued to grow nonetheless, with ongoing support from those who created them (don't be fooled by half-hearted bombing campaigns against the worst elements), and have now spread throughout the region and even as far as southern Russia. Meanwhile, the Ukraine (under Washington's control since a US-orchestrated coup removed the democratically elected pro-Russian government early last year) wants to employ their services against the Russians. So it's the Taliban scenario all over again; all part of America's aggressive strategy against Russia, and also its attempts to isolate Iran - though Iran hasn't invaded another country for more than two centuries.
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Mon, 10 Aug 2015, 09:30

Just an update here, which most of you who follow the news will be aware of: the PKK (Kurdistan Workers' Party), regarded as a terrorist group by Turkey & the US, has been systematically executing police officers since the terrorist attack which killed 33 Kurdish activists in Suruc last month. Last night a series of attacks, including a car bombing of an Istanbul Police Station and a failed attack on the American Consulate, took the toll of police officers killed well into the 30s. That might be regarded as 'revenge' for the terrorist attack, but meanwhile the Turkish army has been bombing Kurdish strongholds across the Syrian and Iraqi borders, claiming to have killed several hundred. Civilian casualties have been reported, inevitably. Turkey continues to show less inclination to combat the ISIS terrorists, though it has now permitted US forces to utilize its Incirlik air base for the purpose. Meanwhile, pretty much everywhere you look there are Syrian refugees, many living on the streets with their children. Two million of them (half the total number of refugees created by this proxy war) have come to Turkey.
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby grande » Mon, 10 Aug 2015, 13:18

Are you living in Turkey, Rowan?

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Mon, 10 Aug 2015, 20:29

Yes, Grande. Been here for over 10 years. 8-)

Note on my previous comment: PKK was not responsible for the Consulate attack. That was likely the work of left-wing extremists.
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby grande » Tue, 11 Aug 2015, 13:07

Stay safe. How bad is it? Like... are you able to go about your day-to-day, or is it basically a warzone out there?

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Tue, 11 Aug 2015, 15:31

Cheers, but it's perfectly safe here, so long as you're not in the Kurdish-dominated south-east. I've lived in the Basque Country before as well, when there was still occasional terrorist activity going on. But you don't even notice these things - just hear about them on the news. In fact, I'd say the risk factor is no more significant in Istanbul than it is in America, Britain or Australia, where extremists have struck in recent years.
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Thu, 13 Aug 2015, 07:39

Basically the entire mess has been created by the US and its illegal invasion of Iraq 12 years ago. This alone has led to an estimated one million deaths and millions more maimed, traumatized, displaced and disenfranchised. &, as the world predicted would happen, it has completely destabilized the region and led to sectarian warfare and terrorism. ISIS is simply Al Qaeda re-branded - in other words, Saudi-financed terrorists serving the interests of US strategical aims. Since WWII, the US has killed between 20 and 30 million people. American covert operations alone have accounted for approximately six million of those deaths, according to former CIA officer John Stockwell. Syria, Libya and the Ukraine crises are among its most recent proxy wars. All this to maintain the American hegemony and feed its trillion-dollar military industrial complex. They've been in Afghanistan for 14 years and Iraq for 12. Something very wrong with that. I'm looking forward to Michael Moore's upcoming documentary 'Where to Invade Next,' in which he addresses the United States' need for 'infinite war.'
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby jservuk » Sun, 30 Aug 2015, 22:36

Speaking as a Muslim, who follows traditional Islam, ISIS is a deep deep corruption of the message, teachings and example of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW), and all the great leaders and scholars who followed and taught the same message. There are in fact Hadiths (sayings, advisories, practices) of the Prophet (SAW) that warned of the rise of this group, right down to the black flag.

See here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJo4B-yaxfk

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/muslimsfor ... nges-isis/

The origins of this ideology stem directly from Wahabi teachings. There is some historic evidence of the Wahabi movement itself being supported by the British to sow the seeds of division in the Arab world, to weaken the Ottoman rule. The Wahabi teachings were rejected by the majority Muslims scholars, but crucially it found support among the hoards of raiders, the most famous clan being what is now known as the House of Saud. The close relationship between the British, the House of Saud, the current ruling family of Jordan are well documented. With their subsequent wealth the Saudis have been able to spread their Wahabi teachings throughout the Muslim world. ISIS is the current stage of the journey that begun with Wahabism, the end result will be far worse than what we see today.

The outcry over the destruction of many historic pre-Islamic sites around the region by ISIS is understandable, but lets not forget these sites were left standing during the traditional Islamic period of rule. Note also that Wahabi regimes have been busy tearing down many sites of importance to Muslims in the last 50 years, not least of which was the birthplace of the Prophet (SAW), and the shrines of many a saint. In Libya the miscreants desecrated the grave of Shaykh Ahmad Zarruq (15th century) last year.

With regards to the current instability caused by ISIS, it does strike me as odd that when oil has been at stake the US has subdued/defeated vast armies like Saddam's Iraq, and the Taleban. But they are reluctant/powerless against this rag tag band. You can't just spring out of nowhere and command such vast areas. Also, Israel's silence about ISIS is strange, when it is usually the first and loudest voice telling us of perceived threats to the region. From a geo-political point of view, I just don't believe what is being said in the news media.

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Mon, 31 Aug 2015, 07:10

I have friends in the south of Turkey who report seeing the anti-Assad rebels roaming freely back and forth across the border, and strutting arrogantly about the streets here fully armed. It is no secret they've been supported by NATO, as well as Israel and Saudi, who all have the goal in common to remove the Assad regime. This, despite the fact many are primarily involved in terrorist activity - ie slaughtering civilians. The Taliban were the prototype, created to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan (after the socialist government had been removed by the US-backed Mujahideen). ISIS is no more Islamic than the KKK is Christian. & another point to consider is that since 9/11 America's wars, proxy wars and interventions are estimated to have killed 1.5 million Muslims. This is only a fraction of the number who have been wounded, bereaved, disenfranchised and traumatized. A whole swathe of the Middle East has been destroyed beyond repair. & if we go back to the 1990s, the number is closer to 4 million Muslims killed. Some estimates put it as high as 8 million and refer to is as a 'genocide.' Of course, aside from the US, a few of its NATO allies plus Israel, the major culprit is the House of Saud. Just yesterday they killed 36 civilians in Yemen by bombing a bottle manufacturing plant they mistook for an arms factory. 'Al Qaeda' simply refers to Wahabi extremists, invariably funded by Saudi, and could include anyone in any country at any time. It's not an army or an organisation. & now it's been rebranded as 'ISIS' because the public just isn't buying it any more. &, yes, the British, with a divide and rule policy, certainly encouraged the Wahabists during colonial rule, and are considered to have actually helped 'create' the Muslim Brotherhood. Not that I'm comparing the Brotherhood to Al Qaeda or ISIS. They were the elected government of Egypt and should not have been removed. But given their adherence to Sharia law, it does seem a little ironic. :roll:
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Fri, 11 Sep 2015, 07:34

If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Sat, 12 Sep 2015, 17:23

In Heraklion right now after a week in delightful Chania. 8-) Flying back to Turkey in the morning and really looks like the government's gone to town there, bombing Kurds across the border and dividing the nation along ethnic lines after the main Kurdish party did surprisingly well in the elections, preventing the ruling party from gaining an outright victory. The president, a Putin-like figure who was PM for a decade or so and now basically continues to run the country from his newly-built presidential palace in the capital, refused to negotiate a coalition with any other party, and has turned to bombing the Kurds instead. The inevitable retalaition from the Kurds is termed terrorism, and this has led to nationalist demonstrations with Kurdish shops and newspaper offices being targeted. & remember, this all started with an out-of-the-blue terrorist attack on Kurdish activists, killing mostly young women, which the government blames on ISIS, but which the Kurds believe the government itself had a hand in.
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Re: 'ISIS' in a Nutshell

Postby Rowan » Sat, 10 Oct 2015, 19:01

Seemingly out of the blue, a Turkish youth with suspected links to ISIS bombs a gathering of Kurdish activists in Turkey - many of them young women. The Kurdish militants blame the government for this, for reasons which are explained atop this thread


As you all probably know by now, lighting strikes twice in the lead-up to the Turkish elections. 33 killed in July. 86 killed today - and likely to rise with 186 more in hospital, many in a critical condition. Again Kurdish peace activists appear to have been the target. Cui bono?
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