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Who REALLY discovered America?

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Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby Rowan » Wed, 19 Nov 2014, 11:46

The answer to that question seems obvious: The Siberian hunter-gatherers who crossed the Bering Strait toward the end of the last Ice Age, some 20 or 30 thousand years ago, when glaciers mounted up across Eurasia and North America had reduced the world's sea levels by hundreds of feet. Woolly elephants and rhino crossed with them, but are now extinct, as did big cats, while bears, wolves and hooved animals migrated in the other direction (including horses which also became exctinct in the Americas).

Columbus was long thought to have been the first European to reach the Americas - until the discovery of Viking ruins in Newfoundland, confirmed in 1960, dating back half a millenia before. Also, South American crops featured in Pan-Polynesian trade routes in pre-European times, notably the sweet potato, which is further food for thought. It has also been claimed the Chinese reached the Americas before Columbus, as well as an Irish monk and the Lost Tribe of Israel. Furthermore, the lost continent of Atlantis is thought by some to have been South America, and to have traded regularly with the ancient Egyptians. Hence the discovery of traces of tobacco and cocaine, American crops, in the remains of the mummies. Could also explain pyramids in the Americas... :roll:

So why shouldn't the Muslims (or their self-appointed spokesperson,) stake their claim? After all, we've got to blame someone :twisted:

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has instructed Turkey’s educational institutions to adopt a policy of highlighting the contribution of Islam to global science and arts, including the discovery of the American continent by Muslim sailors some 300 years before Columbus.

“I have to be clear that there is an important responsibility falling on the shoulders of our Education Ministry and YÖK [the Higher Education Board]. An objective writing of history will show the contribution of the East, the Middle East and Islam to the science and arts. As the president of my country, I cannot accept that our civilization is inferior to other civilizations,” Erdoğan said in his address to students at the opening of a religious school in Ankara on Nov. 18.

He also slammed criticisms from columnists and cartoonists mocking his claims that Muslim sailors discovered the Americas and constructed a mosque in Cuba centuries before Columbus.

“Why [do they not believe it]? Because they have never believed that a Muslim can do such a thing. They have never believed that their ancestors could manage to launch ships in the Golden Horn after transporting them across land,” Erdoğan said, referring to Ottoman Sultan Mehmet II’s conquest of Istanbul in 1453.

“They have never believed that their ancestors ended the Dark Age and opened the New Age. That’s a lack of self-confidence,” he added.

Erdoğan defended his claims about the discovery of the Americas and underlined that the suggested had not originally been made by him. “This claim is not new. It is mentioned in Prof. Fuat Sezgin’s books. A number of academics in Turkey and in the world have made this claim,” he said, without referring to his suggestion that the Muslims who discovered Cuba built a mosque on a hill there.

Fuat Sezgin is a Turkish professor emeritus on Arabic-Islamic science, who has been living in Germany since the aftermath of the 1960 coup in Turkey.

A day after Erdoğan voiced his claim about the discovery of the Americas for the first time, Sezgin participated in a press conference to introduce the Turkish edition of his book on the history of Arab-Islamic literature.

"I wrote years ago that the American continent was discovered by Muslims sailors. Everything written in the book is correct, but nobody in my country speaks about it," daily Milliyet quoted Sezgin as saying on Nov. 16. Bilal Erdoğan, the son of the Turkish president, was sitting next to Sezgin during the press conference.

“Western sources shouldn’t be believed as if they are sacred texts,” Erdoğan added Nov. 18, promising to maintain his “encouraging” role in this regard.

In his speech, he also cited the mega projects being carried out in Turkey, including the intercontinental Marmaray undersea tunnel, the third bridge over the Bosphorus and the Kanal Istanbul project, as reasons for the Turkish youth to have "self-confidence."

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/erdoga ... sCatID=338
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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby AUCKLANDREUNION » Wed, 19 Nov 2014, 13:14

In 1969, Dennis Hopper and Peter Fonda went looking for America, they got to New Orleans and lost it.

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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby Rowan » Wed, 19 Nov 2014, 15:08

In 1969, Dennis Hopper and Peter Fonda went looking for America, they got to New Orleans and lost it.


:lol:
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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby Silver Fox » Thu, 20 Nov 2014, 18:09

Well, I hope we can say in the not too distant future that it was the All Blacks.

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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby Rowan » Thu, 20 Nov 2014, 18:21

The USA just discovered the All Blacks. That's for sure. But I don't know if they liked what they found... :roll:
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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby josh » Thu, 25 Dec 2014, 18:34

I know an Icelandic couple who got into an argument with the tour guide at the statue of liberty about this. Leif Eriksson (or another Icelander around the same time) was probably the first European to discover America around the year 999.

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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby Rowan » Fri, 26 Dec 2014, 18:43

This became an established fact following the discovery of Norse ruins in Newfoundland in 1960, Josh. Leif Ericson, son of Eric the Red (a Norwegian outlaw banished to Iceland, whence he discovered Greenland in the early 980s), sailed from Greenland around 1000AD in search of a land sighted by countryman Bjarni Herjolfsson when blown off course during a storm in 986. Ericson first reached Baffin Island (Canada), which he named Helluland (land of the flat stones), then Markland (forest land), generally considered to have been Labrador. The first "permanent" settlement was at the northern tip of New Foundland, which Ericson named Vinland (wine land). The ruins were uncovered by Helge Ingstad and Anne Stine in the 1950s, finally confirmed in 1960. The colonization was not led by Ericson, however, but by his brother-in-law Thorfinn Karlsefni some years later. According to the Icelandic sagas, Karlsefni took 160 people with him, all but 15 of them men. They survived there only a few years. Their demise remains a mystery. It may have come about as a result of conflict with the natives, though the sagas recount efforts on the part of the settlers to appease the local chiefs. A Viking coin has been discovered in Maine, and a Scandanavian stone carving in Minnesota, but there is no concrete evidence the Norsemen ventured as far south as the modern-day United States. More likely these artefacts arrived there through trade, whether in pre-Columbıan times or later.
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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby victorsra » Thu, 01 Jan 2015, 20:36

There are three really different things about this.

1st: when Americas settlements started - there is a deep discussion between archeologists about dates. There were many migration fluxes from different areas... for sure Siberian gatherers-hunters arrive from Bering, but there are theories about watercraft migration, from Pacific (possible, as Chilean findings show) and even from Atlantic (improbable). Brazilian archeologist Niède Guidon claims 45.000 BC findings in Piauí state, which are not fully acceptable. The 30.000 BC date is really open to discussion.

2nd: when the Americas were visited by people from other continents. Vikings explorations are not the only ones to have happened. Maybe the Chinese sailed in North America's coast. There are claims of Phoenician presence in Brazilian coast (controversial) and Basque and Portuguese fishermen may have sighted Americas as well before 1492. This doesn't mean that they have made contact, but how much this previous sights have influenced future expeditions is open to discussion. Vikings for sure started a colony, but as it wasn't continued and haven't opened systematic travels between the two continents. "Discovery" is a problematic concept. What it really means? Who arrive "first" (always controversial, and many times too "eurocentric") or who opened a process of continuous relations between the areas?

3rd: who started European colonization and therefore made a continuous link between Americas and the rest of the World: Columbus, 1492, that is just part of a whole process of Portuguese (first) and Spanish explorations (with some Italian an Arab knowledge, for sure) that created a world-system that incorporated the Americas. That no other claim can say different.
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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby Rowan » Thu, 01 Jan 2015, 22:56

:thumbup: Good post, Victorsra.

from Pacific (possible, as Chilean findings show)


Yes, already mentioned the presence of South American crops in pre-European Polynesian trade routes. This, coupled with physical similarities, led the Norwegian adventurer Thor Hyerdahl to his Kon-Tiki expedition in 1947, sailing a raft of balsa wood 8000km from South America to the Pacific Islands in an attempt to prove the Polynesians had originated in the Americas. Archaeological, linguistic and DNA evidence have all conspired to defeat this theory, however. Polynesians originated in South East Asia, and the physical similarity to South American natives owes to the fact they are a Mongoloid-Austroloid hybrid, while the indigenous people of the Americans are considered Mongoloid.

Given the Polynesians sailed all around the Pacific in their double-hulled canoes, populating all of the islands, reaching both Hawaii & New Zealand from Tahiti (3 & 4 thousand kms away respectively), it is considerably more plausible that they reached South America at some point on their travels. Obviously they wouldn't have settled there due to the presence of local tribes. If I'm not mistaken, the people of the Andes region know the sweet potatoe as the 'cumer.' The Polynesians know it as the 'kumera.' More than coincidence, perhaps...
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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby victorsra » Thu, 01 Jan 2015, 23:21

Polynesians originated in South East Asia, and the physical similarity to South American natives owes to the fact they are a Mongoloid-Austroloid hybrid, while the indigenous people of the Americans are considered Mongoloid.


"Luzia" finding in Minas Gerais are also remarkable for these theories, as the 11.000.000 years old skeleton had Astraloid-Negroid traces, which reenforces seatravels possibilities. Some other pre-historic populations in Brazilian coast, associated to the shell heap structures ("sambaquis", in portuguese) were also recently identified with astroloid-negroid populations, but unproved yet. Interesting that there were no indigenous populations in South America in 1500 with these anthropological characterists. Were they extinct prior to European arrive?
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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby Rowan » Fri, 02 Jan 2015, 10:51

The Negroid race never ventured out of Africa. One of the reasons we know this is that they do not have Neanderthal DNA. The other three major ethnic groups - Caucasoid, Mongoloid & Austroloid - all have about 5% Neanderthal DNA. Neanderthal existed in Eurasia for 200,000 years but are considered to have been wiped out (and absorbed) by man, becoming extinct approx. 25,000 years ago. Austroloid originated in South Asia, hybridizing with Caucasoid in India and Mongoloid in South East Asia. It is possible people of Mongoloid-Austroloid ethnicity crossed the land-bridge into the Americas, though highly unlikely on the surface.
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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby Adamstown 7's » Wed, 07 Jan 2015, 15:53

Who really cares? It's no more important a country than Timor-leste IMO

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Re: Who REALLY discovered America?

Postby Rowan » Thu, 08 Jan 2015, 09:38

Sure, but we're discussing the continent(s), not the country. ;)

Irish comedien Dave Allen had an interesting theory. When Noah built his ark, loaded it up with animals and set sail to escape the flood, he needed a place to dump all the manure. A few thousand years later a fellow by the name of Columbus came along and discovered it. :lol:
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