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The whole Greek situation

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The whole Greek situation

Postby iul » Sun, 05 Jul 2015, 19:22

Romanian media is reporting the Greeks have voted No by quite a margin.
IMO the troika should stick to their guns and insist Greece reforms its economy and its state.
Fuck knows what the Greeks feel so entitled to other people's money though.

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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby Canalina » Sun, 05 Jul 2015, 20:20

I think Tsipras is a honest man, but he seems also quite immature: the sensation is that he has never been so happy in his life like in these days, because he is defying the powerful "troika" like probably he dreamed when he was a "rebel" boy. But this is not a game, he is the chief of a national government.
Today he was all smiling when he went to vote and he and his party's fellows were all smiling when the first results came out. I wonder: why? What they have to be so happy? The nation is in a bad moment, so the prime minister shouldn't be so joyful; and the referendum was organized to ask the people what the governement should do, so every response of the referendum should have been "the right one" because coming from the people. If they are so happy because "no" won, it means that they already thought that "no" was the right answer. But if they thought so, they should have decided for the no themselves, as government. Asking to the people via referendum seemed to me a demagogic move
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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby NedRugby » Sun, 05 Jul 2015, 21:14

I can't help thinking that as usual the common person will suffer because of the incompetence or greed or corruption of people higher up. Its different from the banking crisis of a few years ago but similar roots. I don't know enough about economics to talk about details, but I do know that it is very easy and lazy to demonize Greek people as lazy tax evaders who want everyone else to pay for them to live in luxury. It is never that simple in practice. Certainly the Greek governments of the last decennia have a lot of explaining to do, but I think partly people who lend money to risky borrowers have to realise that they might not get their money back. In the banking crisis the banks knew that governments would help the out if their risky loans were defaulted on. Effectively tax payers funded the bonuses of the guys who caused the collapse. This Greek crisis is not so different. Banks or countries who loaned money to Greece should have known the risks.

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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby Rowan » Sun, 05 Jul 2015, 22:10

Austerity was a disaster for Greece anyway. Shrunk the economy by 25%, pensions slashed in half. It was the poor who suffered, of course. Rich Greeks simply moved abroad.
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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby iul » Sun, 05 Jul 2015, 22:13

They had less austerity than they would have had if they hadn't been bailed out. Non austerity wouldn't have solved much anyway other than keeping their economy at an artificially high level for another few years.

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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby Rowan » Mon, 06 Jul 2015, 09:48

With 50% of young people unemployed and 40% of the population living below the poverty line it's not too surprising they voted against the bailout terms. Personally I think Greece's debt should be written off - just as Germany's was eight years after the war.
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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby AUCKLANDREUNION » Tue, 07 Jul 2015, 23:32

I am a long way away from all of this situation, but am I being a bit alarmist in thinking that down the track this issue could have massive repercussions?

I appreciate that Greece's problem is of their own making, but If the economy of Greece is left to collapse, the country could for want of a better word become dysfunctional, if they cant pay their civil servants, defence and border control etc all sorts of senarios could occur.

Maybe im just over thinking it.

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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby Rowan » Wed, 08 Jul 2015, 10:34

Probably about right. Not entirely of their own making, though - more like the international banks' and financial organizations.' Previous governments messed up, of course, and that goes right back to the US-backed dictatorships. So should the young people of Greece today be forced to endure hardships comparable to those of the Great Depression to pay for this?
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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby Hansgrohe » Wed, 08 Jul 2015, 20:03

AUCKLANDREUNION wrote:I am a long way away from all of this situation, but am I being a bit alarmist in thinking that down the track this issue could have massive repercussions?

I appreciate that Greece's problem is of their own making, but If the economy of Greece is left to collapse, the country could for want of a better word become dysfunctional, if they cant pay their civil servants, defence and border control etc all sorts of senarios could occur.

Maybe im just over thinking it.


If I'm not mistaken, this happened to Yugoslavia during the 90s after their own war; and this actually happened briefly in the United Kingdom during the 70s as well. You're not over thinking it; far from it.

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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby Rowan » Wed, 08 Jul 2015, 22:25

I take two overseas holidays a year and one of them is always to the Greek islands. Already got my tickets to Crete for later this summer. To be honest I haven't seen much change from one year to the next. Prices are the same, tourism seems to have been uneffected, and no other outward sign of the crisis has been evident. Last year I spent a bit of time in Athens on my way to and from my friends' big fat Greek wedding on the island of Aegina. That was a surreal event :thumbup: 8-)
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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby victorsra » Thu, 09 Jul 2015, 19:48

With 50% of young people unemployed and 40% of the population living below the poverty line it's not too surprising they voted against the bailout terms. Personally I think Greece's debt should be written off - just as Germany's was eight years after the war.


For sure.

And it creeps me out all the talk saying Greeks (and by usually all Mediterraneans) are lazy or whatever racist argument northern Europe likes to use. The situation is much more complex. I am not an economics expert, but first of all to have an unified currency without a truly unified economy would be turned soon or later into a huge mess. And there you are, just waiting for a global recession.
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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby Rowan » Thu, 09 Jul 2015, 22:14

:thumbup: Turks probably work even longer hours than the Greeks. Thouh I have observed that what Turks manage to get done during the working day could probably be achieved in a fraction of the time by a German work-force with with the stereotypical robotic work ethic :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: The whole Greek situation

Postby AUCKLANDREUNION » Sat, 11 Jul 2015, 04:38

This though seems to me that the EU has been to easy on Greece, now that Greece has finally agreed to raise its retirement age, problem is it may be a bit late, if 25% of the workforce is unemployed. It makes little difference if a big slice of the population is on an unemployment benefit or a pension (its only a diference in name), espeially if those payments are being made with borrowed money.

Had the Eu been firmer on Greece and insisted on the repayment of loans, the situation would not be as bad as it is. the whole common currency thing means one country can drag other vulnerable economies down.

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