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Brexit

What would you vote?

I'd vote IN
14
67%
I'd vote OUT
5
24%
I don't know / care
2
10%
 
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Re: Brexit

Postby fullbackace » Fri, 24 Jun 2016, 17:42

Well Georgia is multicultural and...... It sucks :( people who moved here from 17to20th centuries are now demanding their independence and our land... soo yah. If you have a relatively small country Multiculturalism can be a mine waiting to explode. Ofc USA and Canada can handle it better because they are huge with stronger governing bodies.

On the other hand Tbilisi where people are more or less forced to assimilate is thriving.

so the morale, don't settle refugees on border regions or their grandchildren will demand land and independence.
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And Brexit, I think was not a good idea but I understand why leavers would want it.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 24 Jun 2016, 20:33

amz wrote:Well, brace yourself :)

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Rare photos.

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Putin signed a decree on exit of Britain from the EU ... :shock:
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Re: Brexit

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 24 Jun 2016, 20:41

I do not believe that the UK will exit the EU.

I think that the Government will spit on the opinion of the people.

It will be another referendum where proponents EU win! 8-)
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Re: Brexit

Postby fullbackace » Fri, 24 Jun 2016, 21:11

Vova12 wrote:I do not believe that the UK will exit the EU.

I think that the Government will spit on the opinion of the people.

It will be another referendum where proponents EU win! 8-)

This is not Russia, Prime minister already announced his resignation.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 24 Jun 2016, 21:26

fullbackace wrote:
Vova12 wrote:I do not believe that the UK will exit the EU.

I think that the Government will spit on the opinion of the people.

It will be another referendum where proponents EU win! 8-)

This is not Russia, Prime minister already announced his resignation.

Putin is trying not to quarrel with the people, so it is popular.

The Netherlands has already ignored the referendum, let's see what happens in Britain.

I think the same as in the Netherlands. 8-)
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Re: Brexit

Postby iul » Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 03:54

fullbackace wrote:
Vova12 wrote:I do not believe that the UK will exit the EU.

I think that the Government will spit on the opinion of the people.

It will be another referendum where proponents EU win! 8-)

This is not Russia, Prime minister already announced his resignation.

The will of the people isn't an obstacle for the globalists. The French and the Dutch voted AGAINST the Lisbon Treaty, but their countries still ratified it and the Irish were made to vote twice noth on the Lisbon Treaty and on Maastricht. They make the people vote until they get the right result or they outright ignore referendums.

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Re: Brexit

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 04:07

I think a second referendum will happen, with a much larger margin of victory needed. You can't make this big a change to your country with only 51% of the population behind it. This is the type of referendum that needs at least 66% of the populations supporting it.

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Re: Brexit

Postby iul » Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 04:12

Well, they didn't require such a large majority to enter the damn thing in the first place, and then they massively transformed it over the decades from a trade deal to what it is today, with the stated goal to turn it into a super state.

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Re: Brexit

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 04:38

The one in the 1970's got over 67% in favour, which is more than two-thirds of the population, there's little dispute about what the population of the time wanted to happen. 51% is not enough for a change like this, it would be like changing your country's national anthem, you wouldn't want a simple majority of people to be in favour of it, you would want the vast majority of people to be in favour of it. There's already people regretting their votes apparently because they didn't think about the consequences of the UK potentially breaking up. I expect a second referendum out of this, one requiring at least 65% of the people wanting to leave, you can't make this big a change with half the country against it.

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Re: Brexit

Postby iul » Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 04:47

Getting that high a percentage wasn't a requirement though, and then they massively changed that organization without consulting the population. But hey, if the changes are pro globalism it's all good. Only when the people want to stop or reverse globalism should their will be ignored.

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Re: Brexit

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 04:56

Yes, it wasn't a requirement, but it should have been.

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Re: Brexit

Postby fullbackace » Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 07:05

It was organized by dumb, out of touch elite who thought Remain would be an obvious choice... You don't put your country's future on line so foolishly. In fact now that it's done no one has a fucking clue what they should be doing.


Also Iul you don't understand that if Europe Breaks up the countries will be once again divided into Influence zones around stronger Nations. Eastern European countries can't possibly leave without Russia or Turkey gaining economic leverage over them. And economic leverage can lead to any other kind of leverage in time.

I think Europeans have gotten a little to cozy and think Economic problems are the biggest problems one's country can have. Are there downsides to EU ? yes, but the benefits outweigh them greatly.

When have Eastern European countries had as much freedom as they have now ? During Napoleon ? British Empire ? XX century ? nop this is the first time things have calmed down.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Thomas » Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 11:34

thatrugbyguy wrote:The one in the 1970's got over 67% in favour, which is more than two-thirds of the population, there's little dispute about what the population of the time wanted to happen. 51% is not enough for a change like this, it would be like changing your country's national anthem, you wouldn't want a simple majority of people to be in favour of it, you would want the vast majority of people to be in favour of it. There's already people regretting their votes apparently because they didn't think about the consequences of the UK potentially breaking up. I expect a second referendum out of this, one requiring at least 65% of the people wanting to leave, you can't make this big a change with half the country against it.


i agree at Friday night drinks it was very somber for us who work in government. We (CIVIL SERVANTS and Govt workers) knew that a close result ( 51/49) was bad news. We told the politicians to put mechanisms in place but they always know better. now we reap what we sow. All negotiations will be done by the civil service.

What will happen is anyone guess but unfortunately it has given impetus to the far right groups across Europe. what Pandora has been opened not just in Britain but in Europes is anyone's guess. we are in unknown territory

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Re: Brexit

Postby iul » Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 11:51

Europe needs "far right" groups to rise and put an end to this multiculturalism and globalism madness because things are taken too far and we end up with real far right groups rising.

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Re: Brexit

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 12:56

The problem is you've got an entire generation of people who grew up with multicultralism and open borders, the ones who want to take things back are more often than not older people who look at the past with rose coloured glasses thinking shutting the doors is going to solve everything. There's a generational divide in the western world, I've seen it even here in Australia, older people want to return to how things were for them 40 years ago, but that's not what most late gen x people and millennials want.

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Re: Brexit

Postby amz » Mon, 27 Jun 2016, 09:50

iul wrote:Europe needs "far right" groups to rise and put an end to this multiculturalism and globalism madness because things are taken too far and we end up with real far right groups rising.


Real far right groups are here (EU) already. Romania is lucky to not have an extremist party (right of left) able to enter in Parliament. This does not happened in other countries and a phrase like "President of France, Marie Le Pen meets in Washington US President Donald Trump" would be a nightmare for the European and North Atlantic world.

Brexit is pretty much bad news from Romania; UK was one of main the advocates of our admission in EU and a close ally within the EU considering both countries have strong ties with US, especially in military/security area.

Germany is in an unwanted situation, that of a referee of the EU because it remains the strongest country in EU and used to share a lot of burden with UK. Only France stand aside now and it looks like it's not keen for reforms. There is a lot of extremist movement in countries like France, Netherlands, Germany even, Finland. May I remind you that Hitler come to power due to referendums? Do you know that because of this, referendums on political issues (such a British one) are forbidden in Germany?

Even if now Britain is perceived as going down economically, the big picture is that EU will also have to resist to this shock.

You probably don't understand that once the EU will go down (if this will happen), what it was taken from granted in last decades like peace and level of living may disappear in a blink of an eye. Any European country, as strong as it may look within EU (including UK) will easily lose its economical relevance at International level. Those who think UK will be able to re-make some sort of empire or closer Commonwealth alliance to whistand shock of leaving EU are naive ...

Maybe you don't realize but EU started as a union who aimed to put aside nationalistic egoism in order to avoid war in Europe...despite the evolution of EU, it's still today the main reason to exist of this political alliance.

You should consider yourself very lucky that Romania made in. Look at countries like Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine, ex-Yugoslav states and their internal economical or political fragility, they're in a grey area and even if for a while they do good, in case of major turbulences they'll be alone 'cause they're in grey area...they'd like to be in for the security that EU provides and it's probably nowhere even close to see new member states.
Last edited by amz on Mon, 27 Jun 2016, 11:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit

Postby iul » Mon, 27 Jun 2016, 09:56

The war in Europe idea is bullshit. We're all either NATO members or Russia, or a handful of non aligned states. I understand the economic risks posed by the breakup of the EU but for me that's an acceptable risk to get rid of this monstruosity chipping away at our sovereignty.

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Re: Brexit

Postby fullbackace » Tue, 28 Jun 2016, 02:14

amz wrote:
Real far right groups are here (EU) already. Romania is lucky to not have an extremist party (right of left) able to enter in Parliament. This does not happened in other countries and a phrase like "President of France, Marie Le Pen meets in Washington US President Donald Trump" would be a nightmare for the European and North Atlantic world.

Brexit is pretty much bad news from Romania; UK was one of main the advocates of our admission in EU and a close ally within the EU considering both countries have strong ties with US, especially in military/security area.

Germany is in an unwanted situation, that of a referee of the EU because it remains the strongest country in EU and used to share a lot of burden with UK. Only France stand aside now and it looks like it's not keen for reforms. There is a lot of extremist movement in countries like France, Netherlands, Germany even, Finland. May I remind you that Hitler come to power due to referendums? Do you know that because of this, referendums on political issues (such a British one) are forbidden in Germany?

Even if now Britain is perceived as going down economically, the big picture is that EU will also have to resist to this shock.

You probably don't understand that once the EU will go down (if this will happen), what it was taken from granted in last decades like peace and level of living may disappear in a blink of an eye. Any European country, as strong as it may look within EU (including UK) will easily lose its economical relevance at International level. Those who think UK will be able to re-make some sort of empire or closer Commonwealth alliance to whistand shock of leaving EU are naive ...

Maybe you don't realize but EU started as a union who aimed to put aside nationalistic egoism in order to avoid war in Europe...despite the evolution of EU, it's still today the main reason to exist of this political alliance.

You should consider yourself very lucky that Romania made in. Look at countries like Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine, ex-Yugoslav states and their internal economical or political fragility, they're in a grey area and even if for a while they do good, in case of major turbulences they'll be alone 'cause they're in grey area...they'd like to be in for the security that EU provides and it's probably nowhere even close to see new member states.


:thumbup: Hit the nail in the head here, The people are shortsighted and lack memory. Just because we are more or less alright today doesn't mean it can't get worse. Economy is the first to go, then comes poverty, which breeds anger and radicalism, after that god knows what will happen. we already have idiots like Trump and Boris Jonson in two of the most advanced countries in the world not to mention Erdogan in Turkey, a country that is experiencing backwards trends. who's to say that we won't get worse than them in Hungary, Poland, Greece etc... NATO seems strong now but stronger alliances have fallen faster.

Ask historians and politologists if you want. people who think EU is what's wrong with Europe don't have a fucking clue.
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Re: Brexit

Postby amz » Tue, 28 Jun 2016, 12:27

iul wrote:The war in Europe idea is bullshit. We're all either NATO members or Russia, or a handful of non aligned states. I understand the economic risks posed by the breakup of the EU but for me that's an acceptable risk to get rid of this monstruosity chipping away at our sovereignty.


a Brexit is triggering exactly what you don't like in EU. An integration of the hard core which will speak on one voice and will create a super state while the others will just join if they'll give up to sovereignity without any negotiations, as it was when actually joining EU.

One of the main points of reforms made clear by EU leaders after Brexit was an European Army. This will be made on the expanse of NATO. The more exits, more supporters for EU Army, less NATO.

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Re: Brexit

Postby iul » Tue, 28 Jun 2016, 12:33

amz wrote:
iul wrote:The war in Europe idea is bullshit. We're all either NATO members or Russia, or a handful of non aligned states. I understand the economic risks posed by the breakup of the EU but for me that's an acceptable risk to get rid of this monstruosity chipping away at our sovereignty.


a Brexit is triggering exactly what you don't like in EU. An integration of the hard core which will speak on one voice and will create a super state while the others will just join if they'll give up to sovereignity without any negotiations, as it was when actually joining EU.

One of the main points of reforms made clear by EU leaders after Brexit was an European Army. This will be made on the expanse of NATO. The more exits, more supporters for EU Army, less NATO.

The SuperState was the ultimate goal from the very beginning. The EU army idea has been touted by UE leaders for quite a few years now. There's no reason why NATO would in any shape or form be reduced by this.

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Re: Brexit

Postby amz » Tue, 28 Jun 2016, 12:58

I'm quite busy at this moment but I am giving you some homework :P
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/26/bre ... -for-nato/
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/ ... nse-policy

http://intpolicydigest.org/2016/06/22/b ... se-policy/
an interesting conclusion:

When it comes to the British military legacy and the impacts of Brexit upon UK defense, there is a significant logistical or numerical impediment to supporting the Brexit and the resultant expectation that a militarily more capable Britain will emerge. As it stands, the British Armed Forces possesses only 144,000 personnel in total, leading some publications to chastise the government for allowing the total number of soldiers to fall below the total number of hairdressers within the United Kingdom. The Royal Navy, the necessary vehicle for power projection and expeditionary operations, is without an aircraft carrier until 2020 and currently only possesses 19 surface warships, meaning it has twice as many admirals as it does frigates or destroyers. Worse yet, military recruitment has plummeted by some 30,000 individuals over the last three years.

What cannot be avoided are the realities of the UK’s military limitations. Nor can one turn a blind eye to a century of British military and diplomatic history in which the UK’s military power has steadily risen along with its dependence on foreign allies. The unsavory truth is that a nation of 60 million inhabitants whose status as a leading global economy is under the inevitable threat of usurpation by developing nations, simply cannot sustain the level of defense spending that would be required to ensure that the UK remains a global military power, a tall order given UK defense spending as a percentage of GDP has been halved since 1982. Short of drastically increasing its defense budget to cope with the loss of the EU’s “force-multiplier” effect, its withdrawal from the EU would most likely throw the EU into disarray, strain its relationship with the United States, and damage its international clout, all of which would degrade its military might.

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Re: Brexit

Postby iul » Tue, 28 Jun 2016, 13:19

Why would brexit cause strain in its relationship with the US? How would UK's international clout being damaged result in a degraded military might? It's just more Project Fear, really.

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Re: Brexit

Postby YamahaKiwi » Tue, 09 Aug 2016, 13:07

iul wrote:
fullbackace wrote:
Vova12 wrote:I do not believe that the UK will exit the EU.

I think that the Government will spit on the opinion of the people.

It will be another referendum where proponents EU win! 8-)

This is not Russia, Prime minister already announced his resignation.

The will of the people isn't an obstacle for the globalists. The French and the Dutch voted AGAINST the Lisbon Treaty, but their countries still ratified it and the Irish were made to vote twice noth on the Lisbon Treaty and on Maastricht. They make the people vote until they get the right result or they outright ignore referendums.


The will of the people. What a load of BS! Did you not see the day after the huge increase in UK people googling 'What is the EU?" and "What could happen if the UK left the E.U?" AFTER the referendum! I'd have a lot more respect for the will of the people of the UK if many more of them had taken the time to learn the facts BEFORE the referendum. What a bunch of plonkers!

Anyone in any doubt about how dumb many Brits were and how the Leave campaign trotted out so many lies only has to watch Brit expat in the US John Oliver's shows that dealt with the Brexit referendum before and after. His shows are very funny but also very intelligent and informative. And he's great at skewering stupid politicians, celebrities, organisations etc etc. The third video has the news about the "day after" googling.






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Re: Brexit

Postby iul » Tue, 09 Aug 2016, 13:15

OK, so you don't want democracy then?

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Re: Brexit

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 11 Aug 2016, 03:23

It's only democracy if those in charge are honest about what they saying.

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