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Women German Rugby

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Women German Rugby

Postby Raven » Tue, 07 Aug 2018, 09:17

I haven´t really followed women´s rugby in the past, yet alone, women´s rugby in Germany, but for what I can see, the 7s set up has really helped the appearance of many teams. All 5 leagues (separated in geographical areas) contain between 10 and 12 sides and they play in average 6 tournaments plus 2 finals (some a Cup Tournament too), so all in all ca.9 rugby weekends throughout the season. Similar amount of games as some of the men´s tournaments in GER.
Of course some scores are bulky, and not all teams go to all tournaments, but it´s still very interesting.

Also, as I was going through the new German Leagues as they are being unveiled progressively, I see many new teams appearing, including one side in the women´s Bundesliga, bringing the total to 6, and meaning that some sides will get to play those ca. 9 tournaments in 7s + 10 XVs games. If they make it to semi finals and final that brings the total of rugby weekends to 21. Fascinating.

Would love to see more XVs going on but it´s understandable that distances (and costs of traveling), plus the amount of weekends that it might demand can prove difficult for many sides. In fact, just checked and there used to be more Bundesliga teams, and other formats where used, North and South, Qualification and Championship rounds, and not that long ago there used to be 8 teams going through Germany to play... guess the current format although better than last season still has it´s flaws.

I´ll try and update info (ie: results, new teams, etc) as it comes along, but would be great to get some input from other posters.

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Re: Women German Rugby

Postby johnbirch » Wed, 08 Aug 2018, 14:32

Raven wrote:I haven´t really followed women´s rugby in the past, yet alone, women´s rugby in Germany, but for what I can see, the 7s set up has really helped the appearance of many teams. All 5 leagues (separated in geographical areas) contain between 10 and 12 sides and they play in average 6 tournaments plus 2 finals (some a Cup Tournament too), so all in all ca.9 rugby weekends throughout the season. Similar amount of games as some of the men´s tournaments in GER.
Of course some scores are bulky, and not all teams go to all tournaments, but it´s still very interesting.

Also, as I was going through the new German Leagues as they are being unveiled progressively, I see many new teams appearing, including one side in the women´s Bundesliga, bringing the total to 6, and meaning that some sides will get to play those ca. 9 tournaments in 7s + 10 XVs games. If they make it to semi finals and final that brings the total of rugby weekends to 21. Fascinating.

Would love to see more XVs going on but it´s understandable that distances (and costs of traveling), plus the amount of weekends that it might demand can prove difficult for many sides. In fact, just checked and there used to be more Bundesliga teams, and other formats where used, North and South, Qualification and Championship rounds, and not that long ago there used to be 8 teams going through Germany to play... guess the current format although better than last season still has it´s flaws.

I´ll try and update info (ie: results, new teams, etc) as it comes along, but would be great to get some input from other posters.

I think Germany is a classic example of where the top teams would benefit most from cross border play, especially XVs. IIRC the top three in the Frauenbundesliga are head and shoulders above the rest with cricket score results many weekends. Any league with regular 100-0 scorelines is a league with problems.

But across the border in the Netherlands we find both another small league dominated by a few teams. And across another border in the Czech republic or Switzerland we find the possibility for more opposition.

Or am I being overly simplistic?

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Re: Women German Rugby

Postby Blurandski » Wed, 08 Aug 2018, 17:50

johnbirch wrote:
Raven wrote:I haven´t really followed women´s rugby in the past, yet alone, women´s rugby in Germany, but for what I can see, the 7s set up has really helped the appearance of many teams. All 5 leagues (separated in geographical areas) contain between 10 and 12 sides and they play in average 6 tournaments plus 2 finals (some a Cup Tournament too), so all in all ca.9 rugby weekends throughout the season. Similar amount of games as some of the men´s tournaments in GER.
Of course some scores are bulky, and not all teams go to all tournaments, but it´s still very interesting.

Also, as I was going through the new German Leagues as they are being unveiled progressively, I see many new teams appearing, including one side in the women´s Bundesliga, bringing the total to 6, and meaning that some sides will get to play those ca. 9 tournaments in 7s + 10 XVs games. If they make it to semi finals and final that brings the total of rugby weekends to 21. Fascinating.

Would love to see more XVs going on but it´s understandable that distances (and costs of traveling), plus the amount of weekends that it might demand can prove difficult for many sides. In fact, just checked and there used to be more Bundesliga teams, and other formats where used, North and South, Qualification and Championship rounds, and not that long ago there used to be 8 teams going through Germany to play... guess the current format although better than last season still has it´s flaws.

I´ll try and update info (ie: results, new teams, etc) as it comes along, but would be great to get some input from other posters.

I think Germany is a classic example of where the top teams would benefit most from cross border play, especially XVs. IIRC the top three in the Frauenbundesliga are head and shoulders above the rest with cricket score results many weekends. Any league with regular 100-0 scorelines is a league with problems.

But across the border in the Netherlands we find both another small league dominated by a few teams. And across another border in the Czech republic or Switzerland we find the possibility for more opposition.

Or am I being overly simplistic?


It would be great if they got a Champions Cup style competition going, perhaps inviting a few invitational Tyrells Prem teams, put the boot on the other foot.

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Re: Women German Rugby

Postby ugrugbychiclet » Thu, 09 Aug 2018, 08:34

Raven wrote:I haven´t really followed women´s rugby in the past, yet alone, women´s rugby in Germany, but for what I can see, the 7s set up has really helped the appearance of many teams. All 5 leagues (separated in geographical areas) contain between 10 and 12 sides and they play in average 6 tournaments plus 2 finals (some a Cup Tournament too), so all in all ca.9 rugby weekends throughout the season. Similar amount of games as some of the men´s tournaments in GER.
Of course some scores are bulky, and not all teams go to all tournaments, but it´s still very interesting.

Also, as I was going through the new German Leagues as they are being unveiled progressively, I see many new teams appearing, including one side in the women´s Bundesliga, bringing the total to 6, and meaning that some sides will get to play those ca. 9 tournaments in 7s + 10 XVs games. If they make it to semi finals and final that brings the total of rugby weekends to 21. Fascinating.

Would love to see more XVs going on but it´s understandable that distances (and costs of traveling), plus the amount of weekends that it might demand can prove difficult for many sides. In fact, just checked and there used to be more Bundesliga teams, and other formats where used, North and South, Qualification and Championship rounds, and not that long ago there used to be 8 teams going through Germany to play... guess the current format although better than last season still has it´s flaws.

I´ll try and update info (ie: results, new teams, etc) as it comes along, but would be great to get some input from other posters.


Aside from the obvious issues of distances and costs of travelling the player numbers also prevents more 15s teams forming. During the regional 7s leagues at times some teams were unable to raise a full side so were allowed to combine. You would get different teams combining on different weekends and a way was worked out to distribute the points (I didn't understand how but it worked without any complaints). The main aim was to allow players who pitched up to play game time. For 15s, some 7s teams would combine to form 15s teams or some players without a 15s team would join another team to play 15s but would return to their team to play 7s.

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Re: Women German Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 09 Aug 2018, 09:31

johnbirch wrote:I think Germany is a classic example of where the top teams would benefit most from cross border play, especially XVs. IIRC the top three in the Frauenbundesliga are head and shoulders above the rest with cricket score results many weekends. Any league with regular 100-0 scorelines is a league with problems.

But across the border in the Netherlands we find both another small league dominated by a few teams. And across another border in the Czech republic or Switzerland we find the possibility for more opposition.

Or am I being overly simplistic?


The problem is not the cricket scores, the problem is that the league is the one and only XVs league in Germany. Actually there were only two cricket scores last season and they were both between the same two teams
http://rugbyweb.de/index.php?le=610
If anything there need to be more teams playing XVs, but it looks like 7s is the way to go.
Maybe XVs might profit from way more females are playing rugby now than ever before.

ugrugbychiclet wrote:During the regional 7s leagues at times some teams were unable to raise a full side so were allowed to combine. You would get different teams combining on different weekends and a way was worked out to distribute the points (I didn't understand how but it worked without any complaints). The main aim was to allow players who pitched up to play game time. For 15s, some 7s teams would combine to form 15s teams or some players without a 15s team would join another team to play 15s but would return to their team to play 7s.


If team can't field 7 players in total and 4(or 5) on the pitch, you are classified as a pirate team. Basically those newer teams will still naturally lose to the sides competing for the championship, so nobody complains. Actually a good system to include new clubs from the get-go.

In the youth system in Bavaria we have a similar system, were in the 7s championship tournaments, you get points based on how many kids you've got there. 25% if you field 1-3 kids, 50% if 4-6 kids and 100% if 7 or more. Helps to make sure, that everybody is open towards new teams trying to establish a youth section.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Women German Rugby

Postby Raven » Thu, 09 Aug 2018, 10:05

johnbirch wrote:I think Germany is a classic example of where the top teams would benefit most from cross border play, especially XVs. IIRC the top three in the Frauenbundesliga are head and shoulders above the rest with cricket score results many weekends. Any league with regular 100-0 scorelines is a league with problems.

But across the border in the Netherlands we find both another small league dominated by a few teams. And across another border in the Czech republic or Switzerland we find the possibility for more opposition.

Or am I being overly simplistic?


Judging for what I´ve seen, although your idea sounds interesting, the costs + logistics for it to happen are very unrealistic. The 100pt difference happens on all German Leagues, so I don´t see that being a BIG problem, of course something should be done to remedy it, but with not that many teams there´s not much that can be done, other than to motivate more clubs to build a XVs side and join the Bundesliga.

Having said this, I can´t help to think, why Munich who as a city have 2 Stusta 7s teams + a MRFC side couldn´t perhaps merge to participate in the Bundesliga, after all, they have played together friendlies in a XVs format before. I am not even counting sides like FFB / Unterföhring / Augsburg who are relatively close to each other; or maybe even now that they are part of the RVBy RC Innsbruck / Bad Reichenhall.... Berlin would be another candidate for something like this, being a big city with plenty of sides... although the distances and club affiliations might be a bit more difficult to bridge. BUT this is just words in the air tho, as I mentioned before, I may be lacking a lot of internal info here and just trying to figure out what would be the best way to transition that many Regional 7s teams into Bundesliga XVs. Maybe women in Germany preferr 7s over XVs, who knows!?

On another note, I think Switzerland has had some teams falling out and merging to keep competitive, so they have been quite consistent, and at least have a 6 team A-League and a 6 team B-League, which I think is not bad at all (specially considering that: 1) they play XVs as a National Team as well as 7s & 2) the mens League has "only" 4 proper national divisions this year, so there isn´t much of a difference), they also play some 7 tournaments throughout the season. All this basically to say I don´t think the Swiss would contemplate a merger league.

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Re: Women German Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 09 Aug 2018, 12:19

The problem with XVs is that there is only one tier. You play XVs against the best or you don't at all. This is keeping more teams back from joining in. Kind of a vicious circle. Also the calendar is quite full with 7s.
Actually MRFC and StuSta do play XVs together in friendlies and 3-4 players actually play for SC Neuenheim. Problem might be funding. Munich is 330km away from Heidelberg, 580km from Cologne, 400km from Frankfurt and 780km from Hamburg.

The biggest distance now is Hamburg-Heidelberg with 470km. With St. Pauli (Hamburg) having to travel a "Munich-like" distance from the North.
On the other hand St. Pauli manages this problems for years (with even slightly bigger distances in average).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Joined: Fri, 15 Aug 2014, 13:57

Re: Women German Rugby

Postby Raven » Sat, 11 Aug 2018, 09:40

I understand your point with the distances, but I somehow fail to comprehend how could that go against a combine side of MRFC and StuSta 1 & 2... surely there´s a big pool of players to pick from. But won´t argue as it would be pointless, considering it doesn´t seem to be in the cards anyway.

Maybe the best way for more women XVs games to occur would be a Regional championship, with the best from the large RL Tournaments being selected for the region team...

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