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2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco (USA)

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby rugbyslave » Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 06:35

Brazilian team are actually very good, if you watched them in Hong Kong they looked competitive, the game against China they were just too slow to the breakdown but that can be fixed, they have speed which is all you need, South Africa needs to find a speedster without one they will be in trouble all the tries against them in CG and HK were through sheer speed.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby ugrugbychiclet » Tue, 24 Apr 2018, 07:46

victorsra wrote:It looks like these will be the RWC7s matches: http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2018/0 ... up-sevens/

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What happens to the teams that lose their first games? Do they go into a lower tier or is the tournament over for them?

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 26 Apr 2018, 18:27

Yes there's a full Challenge bracket.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Rugb ... s#Schedule

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby Canalina » Thu, 24 May 2018, 05:45

New Zealand v Mexico as play-off... :roll:
The dreams of the mexican team will finish in two minutes. This in-or-out mechanism should be more interesting for the american public but it's merciless

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 24 May 2018, 13:18

Canalina wrote:New Zealand v Mexico as play-off... :roll:
The dreams of the mexican team will finish in two minutes. This in-or-out mechanism should be more interesting for the american public but it's merciless


Ireland vs. England asnd USA vs. China look like the really merciless games. The Mexican girls will have the game of their life and that's it. I mean they will lose every game in this tournament anyway.
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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 24 May 2018, 13:20

I absolutely hate this format. Four years of preparation for one match. It's nonsense.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby johnbirch » Thu, 24 May 2018, 19:07

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Canalina wrote:New Zealand v Mexico as play-off... :roll:
The dreams of the mexican team will finish in two minutes. This in-or-out mechanism should be more interesting for the american public but it's merciless


Ireland vs. England asnd USA vs. China look like the really merciless games. The Mexican girls will have the game of their life and that's it. I mean they will lose every game in this tournament anyway.

Fiji v Spain as well...

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sat, 16 Jun 2018, 10:55

thatrugbyguy wrote:I absolutely hate this format. Four years of preparation for one match. It's nonsense.


Completely agree. I was so looking forward to attending this event (I went to Moscow in 2013) until because of the logistical balls-up this format was introduced. The hosts and WR in first naming both SF and San Jose as host grounds while only afterwards coming to the realisation that San Jose was too far away from SF to be logistically practical which then meant all games at SF on one ground, which then meant WR took the decision to change the format. What a cock up! What they should've done is expand the event to 4 days. WR should apologise to all the players and coaches who have spent a load of their time and effort preparing for this tournament only to be out of the running after one game. That is ridiculous and it's disgusting that WR have been able to sweep this under the carpet without being exposed.

WR are desperate for this to be successful but IMHO attending this would be me tacitly giving support to an organisation that has f**ked up. I'm sorry but I'm not going to do that. So unfortunately no SF RWCs7s for me. I'm also not that keen to head to the US while that f**king idiot Trump is in the Whitehouse either but that's another story! Apologies to US posters on here. I hope for your country's rugby popularity the event is a success. Sorry I can't be there to enjoy it with you.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 16 Jun 2018, 12:40

Is that the reason the format was changed? Because they messed up the venues?

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Sat, 16 Jun 2018, 15:13

I thought it was a (misguided IMO) attempt to differentiate the format from the Olympics, but an omnishambles seems more likely, sadly.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby johnbirch » Sat, 16 Jun 2018, 17:16

Ser Podrick of Payne wrote:I thought it was a (misguided IMO) attempt to differentiate the format from the Olympics, but an omnishambles seems more likely, sadly.

No - its absolutely because they messed up with venues. The US Union built everything around the wonders of the Bay Rapid Transit System, and WR swallowed it. Only when they saw the 2016 Olympics and how messed up it was getting out to the rugby venue (despite being promised rapid transit) did they realise that this was just not going to work.

They then had to stuff a quart into a pint pot, which would have meant a four day tournament (likley a fitness and financial disaster) or find a way of losing a lot of games. Dropping two thirds of the pool games achieves that - but only just. There are still a lot of games to play in each day - more than any World Series. With no buffers between rounds a few injuries and this could seriously over-run.

They have also fiddled with the draw a bit too.

Even so, we have England v Ireland in round 1 with the winner playing New Zealand. So one big ticket team is guaranteed to leave the tournament after two games.

But the main thing to watch out for is that is this is deemed a success it will almost certainly be used (or at least trialed) in the World Series so they can fit women's and men's tournaments into one weekend. Hong Kong have already volunteered.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sat, 16 Jun 2018, 17:24

Def an omnishambles. Why do you think San Jose was so quietly dropped as a venue? No public announcement, no explanation, no nothing. The only thing that said San Jose wasn't involved anymore was that it's name was missing when they did the press release for the date tickets were to go on sale last year.

John, having the tournament over 4 days would've been better for the teams fitness wise by stretching out the times between games so allowing more recovery time and having less games overall each day. Yes, probably that day one on a Thursday would be poor one financially, but having f**ked up in the first place it would be on WR to cover that damage IMO. I am getting so tired of WR f**king up when it comes to major event venues. First there was the Man U debacle in 2015 when they allowed an England RWC mens XVs bid without having the requirement for the host union to have the venue tied down, then they gift a hosting to another country who does not have a finished main stadium and again get burnt when that stadium plan goes to crap and now we have a comparatively poor venue for the RWC19 final. Why is this crap consistently happening with that organisation? And what grates me even more is that said organisation NEVER acknowledges those f**kups. They just do a press release saying how perfectly and wonderfully everything is going in the rugby world. I just don't even get how WR could have accepted San Jose and SF in the beginning. I could've told the WR board that teams going between those two venues for various pool games was logistically impractical. I was pretty surprised in the first place when the dual venue announcement was made.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby johnbirch » Sat, 16 Jun 2018, 20:02

The current format is - I think - the fourth (that we know of). We did a summary of the slow motion car crash in July last year http://www.scrumqueens.com/news/truncated-sevens-world-cup-revealed (after the third revision). I think its interesting now that the line now is that a knockout is better for an American audience, which is slightly insulting - sort of implying that Americans do not have the intellegence or attention span to understand a pool system

The travelling between sites was a major issue - TBH I think the other one was the realisation that they were not going to sell 63,000 tickets on each of the three days. I cannot actually see them remotely selling the 45,000 per day for the AT&T.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby Thomas » Sun, 17 Jun 2018, 08:55

I personally feel sorry for Mexico... All that expense promotion and training for one game. I am more in tuned about their struggles and financial constraints and this for me is wrong at many levels.

As TRG stated:

thatrugbyguy wrote:
I absolutely hate this format. Four years of preparation for one match. It's nonsense.

I agree is absolute non-sense too much tinkering by WR, I am not going to rehash all the arguments but I am miffed at the way it has been structured.

John, reading your comments how would you have played a pool system with 16 teams? 8 each? or 4 each? and then Quarterfinals?

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby johnbirch » Sun, 17 Jun 2018, 09:55

Thomas wrote:John, reading your comments how would you have played a pool system with 16 teams? 8 each? or 4 each? and then Quarterfinals?

I think the only other option given the constraints of time and venue would be 4 pool of 4 (for the women) and drop all classification matches.

To do the maths - dropping the pool games "saves" 16 games. Dropping all classification games would save 4 QFs, 6 SFs, and 6 "finals" - which is the same saving (you could still have a bronze playoff). The men's tournament would work about the same I think.

Snag - half the teams go home after just three games (the KO format gives everyone four), and probably two days of just pool matches, which would be a tough sell.

Even better - just 16 men's teams, instead of 24. You could probably just about squeeze into three days then.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby NaBUru38 » Sun, 17 Jun 2018, 14:52

There would be no point in having a 16-team World Cup. The point is to see tier 2 and tier 3 teams.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby YamahaKiwi » Mon, 18 Jun 2018, 08:56

johnbirch wrote:The current format is - I think - the fourth (that we know of). We did a summary of the slow motion car crash in July last year http://www.scrumqueens.com/news/truncated-sevens-world-cup-revealed (after the third revision). I think its interesting now that the line now is that a knockout is better for an American audience, which is slightly insulting - sort of implying that Americans do not have the intellegence or attention span to understand a pool system

The travelling between sites was a major issue - TBH I think the other one was the realisation that they were not going to sell 63,000 tickets on each of the three days. I cannot actually see them remotely selling the 45,000 per day for the AT&T.


Yeah I've seen that "Americans will love this format" spin. What's sad about it is when it was discussed on a couple of US rugby podcasts I listened to, the guys doing the shows seemed to have bought that spin, hook, line and sinker!

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 18 Jun 2018, 13:24

YamahaKiwi wrote:Yeah I've seen that "Americans will love this format" spin. What's sad about it is when it was discussed on a couple of US rugby podcasts I listened to, the guys doing the shows seemed to have bought that spin, hook, line and sinker!


To be fair, when the Final Pro Rugby game was on, there was a huge problem, that the winning team had lost the championship to the losing side. With this in mind it does make sense that US rugby podcasts welcome this move.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 20 Jun 2018, 08:51

johnbirch wrote:No - its absolutely because they messed up with venues. The US Union built everything around the wonders of the Bay Rapid Transit System, and WR swallowed it. Only when they saw the 2016 Olympics and how messed up it was getting out to the rugby venue (despite being promised rapid transit) did they realise that this was just not going to work.

They then had to stuff a quart into a pint pot, which would have meant a four day tournament (likley a fitness and financial disaster) or find a way of losing a lot of games. Dropping two thirds of the pool games achieves that - but only just. There are still a lot of games to play in each day - more than any World Series. With no buffers between rounds a few injuries and this could seriously over-run.

They have also fiddled with the draw a bit too.

Even so, we have England v Ireland in round 1 with the winner playing New Zealand. So one big ticket team is guaranteed to leave the tournament after two games.

But the main thing to watch out for is that is this is deemed a success it will almost certainly be used (or at least trialed) in the World Series so they can fit women's and men's tournaments into one weekend. Hong Kong have already volunteered.


So, basically a comedy of errors. Surely the simplest solution is to have the women play on the Thursday and Friday, with the men on Saturday and Sunday. I can't support a format that gives teams one shot at playing, it makes a mockery of the competition. Why the hell should the Mexico girls have to work so hard for nothing? Yeah, they likelihood of them qualifying beyond the pool stage would be low, but it's vital experience to be playing higher ranked teams. I can't imagine any of these girls being happy having worked so hard for 4 years only to be granted one chance.

On top of all of this, how the hell was the two venue approach suppose to run in the first place? I assumed the smaller venue would have been used for the women's matches and AT&T Park for the mens. Were they planning on having teams travel back and fourth between venues or something on the same day?

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby Thomas » Wed, 20 Jun 2018, 10:42

thatrugbyguy wrote:
So, basically a comedy of errors. Surely the simplest solution is to have the women play on the Thursday and Friday, with the men on Saturday and Sunday. I can't support a format that gives teams one shot at playing, it makes a mockery of the competition. Why the hell should the Mexico girls have to work so hard for nothing? Yeah, they likelihood of them qualifying beyond the pool stage would be low, but it's vital experience to be playing higher ranked teams. I can't imagine any of these girls being happy having worked so hard for 4 years only to be granted one chance.

On top of all of this, how the hell was the two venue approach suppose to run in the first place? I assumed the smaller venue would have been used for the women's matches and AT&T Park for the mens. Were they planning on having teams travel back and fourth between venues or something on the same day?


I totally agree wholeheartedly, sometimes I wonder if the boffins in that Ivory tower in Dublin ever get it out, the endless tinkering does your head in.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 19:29

thatrugbyguy wrote:
johnbirch wrote:No - its absolutely because they messed up with venues. The US Union built everything around the wonders of the Bay Rapid Transit System, and WR swallowed it. Only when they saw the 2016 Olympics and how messed up it was getting out to the rugby venue (despite being promised rapid transit) did they realise that this was just not going to work.

They then had to stuff a quart into a pint pot, which would have meant a four day tournament (likley a fitness and financial disaster) or find a way of losing a lot of games. Dropping two thirds of the pool games achieves that - but only just. There are still a lot of games to play in each day - more than any World Series. With no buffers between rounds a few injuries and this could seriously over-run.

They have also fiddled with the draw a bit too.

Even so, we have England v Ireland in round 1 with the winner playing New Zealand. So one big ticket team is guaranteed to leave the tournament after two games.

But the main thing to watch out for is that is this is deemed a success it will almost certainly be used (or at least trialed) in the World Series so they can fit women's and men's tournaments into one weekend. Hong Kong have already volunteered.


So, basically a comedy of errors. Surely the simplest solution is to have the women play on the Thursday and Friday, with the men on Saturday and Sunday. I can't support a format that gives teams one shot at playing, it makes a mockery of the competition. Why the hell should the Mexico girls have to work so hard for nothing? Yeah, they likelihood of them qualifying beyond the pool stage would be low, but it's vital experience to be playing higher ranked teams. I can't imagine any of these girls being happy having worked so hard for 4 years only to be granted one chance.

On top of all of this, how the hell was the two venue approach suppose to run in the first place? I assumed the smaller venue would have been used for the women's matches and AT&T Park for the mens. Were they planning on having teams travel back and fourth between venues or something on the same day?

I've done logistics at a Major 7s tournament...there's so much waster time that this knockout format is dumb.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 18 Jul 2018, 00:45

Alev Kelter has been declared out due to injury, Kelsi Stockert has been activated from traveling reserves.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby Canalina » Wed, 18 Jul 2018, 06:44

Let's not forget that in Wimbledon or Roland Garros, for example, they always had a knock-out format. Also a tennis player who dreams Wimbledon for a year and trains for it could be out of the tournament just after two sets on a side field. And even without placement matches as consolation.
As you said, the choice of San Francisco format must be not just a matter of time because dropping the placement matches they would have had room for pool games; evidently they really wanted this format, I suppose due to the fear of boring the US crowd with the pool games.
Let's see, maybe we could love or at least accept this format after having tested it

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby NedRugby » Wed, 18 Jul 2018, 07:20

TheStroBro wrote:Alev Kelter has been declared out due to injury, Kelsi Stockert has been activated from traveling reserves.


That's a great pity. Kelter is a class player.

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Re: 2018 RWC Sevens - San Francisco/San Jose (USA)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 18 Jul 2018, 07:31

Canalina wrote:Let's not forget that in Wimbledon or Roland Garros, for example, they always had a knock-out format. Also a tennis player who dreams Wimbledon for a year and trains for it could be out of the tournament just after two sets on a side field. And even without placement matches as consolation.
As you said, the choice of San Francisco format must be not just a matter of time because dropping the placement matches they would have had room for pool games; evidently they really wanted this format, I suppose due to the fear of boring the US crowd with the pool games.
Let's see, maybe we could love or at least accept this format after having tested it


I think you can't compare tennis with 100+ tournaments in a year with a rugby 7s World cup. Yes, Wimbledon is a highlight, but those players still get to play the others all-year-round and nobody just practices for a single tournament in tennis.
In opposite many teams at the 7sWC won't have the chance to play a World Series team more than once or twice a year and that's only if they are lucky.
We don't need to test the format. It is a bad idea for the teams and the fans and tv (it is a better start to the tournament when you can exactly advertise at what time your market's team plays on the first or even 2nd day) and was introduced only due to bad planning.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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