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Rugby World Cup 2019

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Raven » Sat, 16 Feb 2019, 11:05

NedRugby wrote:Well then this isn't true:
South America is the only continent without a direct spot
since Asia is in the same position.


I might be wrong (maybe I shouldn´t write before double checking, but I don´t mind to be corrected on this) but Asia always had a direct spot until this RWC, Japan has been the sole benefactor of that spot and depite being very superior, had to play the qualifiers for almost every RWC (the upcoming one is the only one they had qualified directy for being 3rd in their RWC2015 pool, funnily enough, they will be the hosts) Whereas South America was never given a direct spot and has had to play with North America for the 2 american qualification places and repechage spot. We have seen the likes of Argentina as America 1 & 2 a few times, also having to play with Canada and USA to earn that right.

Personally I think it is a "fair" idea, in line with the recent results. Uruguay is growing the game getting good results against their northern rivals and World Rugby wants to see Brasil getting closer to a RWC chance. So to help the "globalization" of the sport it´s not bad at all. I don´t know if in the long run this is a GREAT idea "rugbywise" cause Canada will eventually rise up from this downhill slope they are in and USA is (and should be) aiming higher than just settling for a RWC qualification. Also, in theory, both North American sides would / should be better than the South American teams bar the Pumas. Despite always favoring the minnows, I always want to see close games at the RWC rather than thrashings.

A game between North and South America 2 where the winner goes through to the Repechage would make that something to look forward to and not the bittersweet feeling of going to that qualy stage because you lost to another team (kind of what happens in Oceania with the PI´s)

Lastly, I have to say that the Repechage Tournament with 4 teams playing the round robin was a success, adding another side would complicate the player release and logistics to ensure all teams have their best selection available for the qualifier.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 18:02

Raven wrote:
NedRugby wrote:Well then this isn't true:
South America is the only continent without a direct spot
since Asia is in the same position.


I might be wrong (maybe I shouldn´t write before double checking, but I don´t mind to be corrected on this) but Asia always had a direct spot until this RWC, Japan has been the sole benefactor of that spot and depite being very superior, had to play the qualifiers for almost every RWC (the upcoming one is the only one they had qualified directy for being 3rd in their RWC2015 pool, funnily enough, they will be the hosts) Whereas South America was never given a direct spot and has had to play with North America for the 2 american qualification places and repechage spot. We have seen the likes of Argentina as America 1 & 2 a few times, also having to play with Canada and USA to earn that right.

Personally I think it is a "fair" idea, in line with the recent results. Uruguay is growing the game getting good results against their northern rivals and World Rugby wants to see Brasil getting closer to a RWC chance. So to help the "globalization" of the sport it´s not bad at all. I don´t know if in the long run this is a GREAT idea "rugbywise" cause Canada will eventually rise up from this downhill slope they are in and USA is (and should be) aiming higher than just settling for a RWC qualification. Also, in theory, both North American sides would / should be better than the South American teams bar the Pumas. Despite always favoring the minnows, I always want to see close games at the RWC rather than thrashings.

A game between North and South America 2 where the winner goes through to the Repechage would make that something to look forward to and not the bittersweet feeling of going to that qualy stage because you lost to another team (kind of what happens in Oceania with the PI´s)

Lastly, I have to say that the Repechage Tournament with 4 teams playing the round robin was a success, adding another side would complicate the player release and logistics to ensure all teams have their best selection available for the qualifier.


North America isn't given a direct birth to the world cups. The Americas are given 2 qualifying births. As we know this year it will be the USA and Uruguay. But in the Past when Argentina weren't finishing in the top 12 and automatically qualifying they would be competing for it. The whole process has developed and evolved over time and is still, Argentina will easily finish in the top 12 in this years World cup and there is some thought that for the next World Cup the America qualifiers for the world cup will be decided from the results from the 2021 ARC tourney, with the top two teams making it and the third place team entering the repechage tourney.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby victorsra » Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 18:51

Of course North Americas HAS 1 direct spot. "Americas 1" spot was the winner of the USA-Canada matches. And the loser plays the winner of South America for the "Americas 2" spot. South Americans can't compete for the "Americas 1" spot. It has been this way since the 2011 RWC Qualy (3 RWCs in a row).

Last time it was different was for the RWC 2007 because Argentina had to play the Qualy.

Don't be so sure. Argentina will play USA and Tonga and in a bad day it is not impossible to see the Pumas in 4th place. Not impossible, but not probable.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 20:03

I'd say there's a better chance of France finishing fourth this year.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby victorsra » Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 21:01

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/qualifying/process

"Two Americas qualifiers: Canada and USA will play home and away with the winner on aggregate qualifying for RWC 2019. The loser will play home and away against the top-ranked South American team (excluding Argentina) with the winner on aggregate qualifying for RWC 2019. The loser of this match qualifies for the repechage tournament – Americas 1 and 2".

I might be wrong (maybe I shouldn´t write before double checking, but I don´t mind to be corrected on this) but Asia always had a direct spot until this RWC,

Yes
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby vino_93 » Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 21:56

thatrugbyguy wrote:I'd say there's a better chance of France finishing fourth this year.

Don't forget that France easily beat Argentina in November.
It's a very unpredictable pool. But in the end, I think both France & Argentina will automatically qualified for next cup.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Tobar » Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 22:27

France and Argentina both have histories of shitting the bed but then coming back for RWC and surprising everyone. I don’t expect either to come in 4th because I’m orser for that to happen either USA or Tonga has to beat France/Argentina and then beat Tonga/USA. If USA beats Argentina they can’t lose to Tonga.

I suspect the US has a higher chance of beating one of the two teams as they are on the rise and Tonga hasn’t changed much. But I don’t expect either to have a good chance against the other opponents but would love to see a scalp (preferably by US for obvious reasons).

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 19 Feb 2019, 03:16

That is true. For what ever reason, France and Argentina have a tendency to peak during the world cup year. But Pool C is going to be super challenging.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby vino_93 » Tue, 19 Feb 2019, 07:18

thatrugbyguy wrote:That is true. For what ever reason, France and Argentina have a tendency to peak during the world cup year. But Pool C is going to be super challenging.

In the past, answer is simple : Top 14. Most of the argentinian players were French based.
Too long, too brutal, no time to train as a national team.

But now, things have change a bit. Argentina is playing together full year ... So I guess there will be less improvment from them.

For France, we had a bit lack compare to the celts and England. They had more time to train together, to rest their players when needed. So we were in trouble for 6 nations.
That's why we start copying english model. Anyway we are still not as good as them, especially regarding players rest and physical condition.
But there has been progress.
Some problems remains. Top 14 is still Top 14, with a too long season. It's a championship which destroyes players. Too many injuries, it's hard to build a stable NT. + Headcoaches don't understand that you need stability to start building something... So again, turnover, turnover, turnover, ..... Too much turnover.

That's why it will be probably be a bit better during RWC. Two months working together, for catching the other teams, as we always did.
But this year, gap will be too big. And Brunel seems totally lost... So at best, a quarterfinale lost. But I bet more on a 3rd place in pool. And I hope for it. It could help to change things in French rugby.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby victorsra » Tue, 19 Feb 2019, 12:02

You need to look at the schedule. The FIRST match is France vs Argentina. Whoever loses it will be in big trouble and needing a quick answer.

France's second match is USA, Argentina's second match is Tonga. You see the risk? France and Argentina might suffer from a crisis in the squad after the first match, depending on what happened in that match, and a dangerous team like USA or Tonga could take advantage of the momment.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 19 Feb 2019, 13:03

victorsra wrote:You need to look at the schedule. The FIRST match is France vs Argentina. Whoever loses it will be in big trouble and needing a quick answer.

France's second match is USA, Argentina's second match is Tonga. You see the risk? France and Argentina might suffer from a crisis in the squad after the first match, depending on what happened in that match, and a dangerous team like USA or Tonga could take advantage of the momment.


Well, or whoever loses is so angry that they let their opposition not even the smallest chance. Also they have enough days in between games (France 11, Argentina 7), while Tonga and the USA have a little bit less time to recover with 6 days.

I see bigger chances in the following games, as Argentina before the game vs USA had the game against England only 4 days before. Same goes for France vs. Tonga, but they "only" play the USA 4 days before. The USA is on the receiving end as they play Tonga 4 days after Argentina, while Tonga has 7 days before that matchup.

In general those short turnarounds were massively shifted from t2&3 to t1 in this RWC and it will hopefully lead to a lot more close games, but we finally need a 24-team-RWC to eliminiate them completely.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby snapper37 » Tue, 19 Feb 2019, 22:07

victorsra wrote:Of course North Americas HAS 1 direct spot. "Americas 1" spot was the winner of the USA-Canada matches. And the loser plays the winner of South America for the "Americas 2" spot. South Americans can't compete for the "Americas 1" spot. It has been this way since the 2011 RWC Qualy (3 RWCs in a row).

Last time it was different was for the RWC 2007 because Argentina had to play the Qualy.

Don't be so sure. Argentina will play USA and Tonga and in a bad day it is not impossible to see the Pumas in 4th place. Not impossible, but not probable.



Argentina will easily beat the States and Tonga. And on the day can beat the French. My money has the Puma taking second in the pool.

Pool C
England
Argentina
France
USA
Tonga

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 20 Feb 2019, 02:59

Pumas will top pool C in my opinion, although I can see a situation where Argentina, England and France all beat each other, and if that happens it leaves the door open to the US or Tonga to sneak in for a Q/F spot. So lets say:

Argentina beat France
England beat Argentina
France beat England

How do Tonga and USA factor in? Well England play the USA 4 days after their first match, meaning they'll more than likely have to play a weakened team, which means the US will have their best opportunity ever to beat England. They'll have another year of MLR and professional structure, and it will be their first match. The French play Tonga 4 days after their match against the US, and we know already Tonga can beat the French. So France is going to be in a sticky situation, they've got a real banana skin match against Tonga. Lets say for arguments sake the US and Tonga beat these teams, well all of a sudden the final match between those two becomes important. You could easily see this pool with 3 teams finishing with records of 2-2.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Wed, 20 Feb 2019, 06:39

Too bad Argentina and France are in same group.

I am cheering for both of them after Georgia...

France as Georgia's parent in Rugby and Argentina as a team who is protecting T2 nations interests in the world and Team who doesn't have naturalized players in the squad just like Georgia.

So i hope both of them beat England and advance in finals...

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby jservuk » Thu, 21 Feb 2019, 16:45

I actually put England as the favourites this year, so I think France and Argentina will battle for 2nd place, which I think France will get.

The team to watch for surprising us and sparkling up the tournament is Japan. That's a team that surely everyone can get behind.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby 4N » Thu, 21 Feb 2019, 16:55

Fiji will be the underdogs to watch IMO.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby victorsra » Thu, 21 Feb 2019, 18:00

Well, or whoever loses is so angry that they let their opposition not even the smallest chance.

For a team psicologicaly well yes. But specially in France's case a heavy defeat against the Pumas could be followed by serious bad moments...
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Silver Fox » Tue, 26 Mar 2019, 19:35

https://www.world.rugby/news/409350
Apparently I am not the only Dutch rugby fan going to Japan.
According to World Rugby approx. 15,000 tickets have been sold in the Netherlands. :shock:
Code: Select all
1   England   23.9%   
2   Australia   15.6%   
3   Ireland   7.9%   
4   France   7.7%   
5   New Zealand   7.3%   
6   USA   4.6%
7   Scotland   4.1%
8   Wales   3.6%
9   South Africa   3.1%
10   Netherlands   2.5%

Maybe some travel agency operates from here.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Tobar » Tue, 26 Mar 2019, 19:59

Silver Fox wrote:https://www.world.rugby/news/409350
Apparently I am not the only Dutch rugby fan going to Japan.
According to World Rugby approx. 15,000 tickets have been sold in the Netherlands. :shock:
Code: Select all
1   England   23.9%   
2   Australia   15.6%   
3   Ireland   7.9%   
4   France   7.7%   
5   New Zealand   7.3%   
6   USA   4.6%
7   Scotland   4.1%
8   Wales   3.6%
9   South Africa   3.1%
10   Netherlands   2.5%

Maybe some travel agency operates from here.


Someone else mentioned that it could be a travel agency or some corporate group that bought them for resale. I don't know how prominent that is but I'm going to stay optimistic and think the Dutch just want to travel.

Mentioned this on Twitter too, a shame that France won't have 24 teams because of how many European fans are buying tickets. France has all the makings of a great host nation for a world cup - great destination, plenty of acceptable stadiums and a great metro system to travel between cities. I'm hoping in 4 years I have a dream job that lets me take off weeks to travel for the world cup.....I guess that's always a dream.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby JamesWales » Tue, 26 Mar 2019, 22:02

Reasonable number of South Africans in Holland too I think, due to linguistic connections. Other big rugby nations ex pats will tend to go to other big rugby nations; Brits and Irish in Australia, Australians in England, Kiwis in Australia etc.

I imagine Spain isn't far off that list either, with British people based there

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby NedRugby » Wed, 27 Mar 2019, 00:41

JamesWales wrote:Reasonable number of South Africans in Holland too I think, due to linguistic connections.


Not really. South Africans don't even make the top 25 list of foreign nationals living in the Netherlands.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 27 Mar 2019, 07:47

Netherlands is certainly a surprise to say the least. Good to see though.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 27 Mar 2019, 08:01

The following numbers would be great as well. If about 20% are with "others" you might expect five more nations around or above 2% of all tickets sales. A hint who those nations are from the linked article.

"From the very beginning, we set out to make Rugby World Cup 2019 a truly ground-breaking tournament, so to have such strong interest from fans in rugby’s frontier markets like the USA and the Netherlands, as well as countries like Germany, Spain and Brazil is absolutely wonderful. Asian nations are also well represented with more than three per cent of international fans coming from countries neighbouring Japan."


The last paragraph hints at also good numbers in Hong Kong/China and probably Korea.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Silver Fox » Wed, 27 Mar 2019, 08:49

These figures hint at a substantial interest from nations who don't even take part in the tournament but who are in the top 28 of the rankings.
At the time it was considered a financial risk to award the World Cup to Japan. It appears that global interest stretches beyond the established Tier 1 bubble.
If one of these nations were to actually qualify for a World Cup I dare say they would overtake (Argentina, Italy), South Africa, Wales, Scotland and maybe the USA in attendance figures.
If revenue that is possibly generated in these countries is proportional to the attendance figures this would be a strong case for expanding to 24 nations.
Also because a 6 pools of 4 format involves less pool matches per nation (3 instead of 4) so interest from a nation for their own matches will be concentrated.
Add to that that by having 6 pools the risk of matches between 'minnows' is reduced considerably and it is more likely to sell out more and bigger stadiums.

I hope to see a positive decision about expansion to 24 teams soon.
I honestly don't see any objections.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 27 Mar 2019, 09:59

It's looking more and more likely Japan will be successful, more so than I thought. Which is good news for the tournament, because it means T2 and even T3 nations can seriously consider bidding for the tournament in the future, especially those in Europe.

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