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Rugby World Cup 2019

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 14:19

Welcome to the club, Italy! F..ed by WR like a proper T2 nation!

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 14:32

Canalina wrote:Sorry boys but you are very very heavy. Very very very heavy. I'm not surprised anymore that people as Salvini are so popular in my country when in all the world the populistic thoughts have this success. Japan organizers was forced to cancel at least two games, losing a big amount of money on tickets and sponsors and tv rights refunding; there's a "super-typhoon" arriving, whose area is as big as half Europe, over a World Cup which just celebrated the victims and the resilience of Kumaishi, but no, the games should have been played, it's a scandal, it's a farce, it's a joke! (It's always a scandal, a farce, a joke...)
It's a conspiracy against Italy! And the yellow cards are a conspiracy against Fiji! And the schedule a conspiracy against Scotland!
And if sunday's match will be not cancelled it will be the proof that the cancellation of saturday's games is a scandal! And if instead it will be cancelled it is be the proof that there's a conspiracy to favor Japan!
And of course now we are all expert meteorologists, we all perfectly know that no sports event should be given to Japan from july to november. Or from january to december, considering the earthquakes. It's five years that we know that the RWC 2019 would have been in Japan, no one of us never said nothing about typhoons; but now all experts and professors and graduate in meteorologism


While you are basically right, World Rugby is to blame for making decision after decision after decision in the past to protect their top nations even when they openly bully other nations (cough Euro U18 cough). No wonder conspiracy theories come up after that.

Apart from that, I still think it is unbelievable amateur to not have second venues in your hand just in case. There is a reason, why FIFA blocks all their used stadiums for the whole time of their tournaments. They could have saved their tv revenues from those games (with one having the most popular team and the other game having to two biggest European nations in it).

World Rugby has shown that they are arrogant and if they are once not, they are amateurs.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby dropkick » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 17:16

The Scots are considering legal action. Not a good day for world rugby. The cancellations could cost a lot of money too. It's a matter of how many millions. €20m or €30m?

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 17:21

What I fear is that this will result in a reactionary movement to keep RWC in its traditional strongholds.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 17:33

Armchair Fan wrote:What I fear is that this will result in a reactionary movement to keep RWC in its traditional strongholds.


It's already starting. Just head over to r/rugbyunion and look at some of the posts from the Anglo-Saxon folk.

Honestly, the United Kingdom has to be one of the most arrogant and ignorant Nations on the planet. It's as if they have some divine right to #INSERTYOURISSUEHERE and everyone else can screw off. Not to bring League in to this but we have seen the same thing over here with Toronto Wolfpack who outdrew Wigan for their playoff matches and the English were calling for them to be excluded for whatever reason you could think of. Even when all the evidence that having a new team in a major city in a foreign country has been phenomenally good for the 13 man code in the NH (television coverage, money, new fans, increased attendance at every other club) Attendances in the English Second Division have increased by 12% since the TWP joined the RFL League.

As much as Rugby Union likes to stick its nose up at Rugby League, it's administrators are cut from the exact same bigoted and racist Anglo-Saxon cloth. They don't want anyone else in their competitions, they want Rugby to run exactly as it has for the past 100+ years. Foreign teams being invited to give the tournament a bigger feel and make a claim that Rugby is bigger than it really is, when the reality is it's played seriously by a very small number of nations with limited populations.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby ficcp » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 20:41

It is hard to believe that there wasn´t a plan B. The WRC organasation always knew about the possibilities of typhoons during these month.
It would be costly to move the matches to other cities but the stadia are there and ready, the cost will be much higher now in terms of Rugby promotion to new areas and new public.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Edgar » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 21:21

Canadian_Rugger wrote:

As much as Rugby Union likes to stick its nose up at Rugby League, it's administrators are cut from the exact same bigoted and racist Anglo-Saxon cloth. They don't want anyone else in their competitions, they want Rugby to run exactly as it has for the past 100+ years. Foreign teams being invited to give the tournament a bigger feel and make a claim that Rugby is bigger than it really is, when the reality is it's played seriously by a very small number of nations with limited populations.


You speak my language, brother!

ficcp wrote:

It is hard to believe that there wasn´t a plan B. The WRC organasation always knew about the possibilities of typhoons during these month.
It would be costly to move the matches to other cities but the stadia are there and ready, the cost will be much higher now in terms of Rugby promotion to new areas and new public.


Personally I'm not that bothered, except that this serves to divert attention from the more pressing issue at hand for the game, which is the collective failure of the second tier to seriously challenge the first - honorable host nation notwithstanding. This tournament has been a real disappointment so far, and that has nothing to do with the weather. On the positive side of things, it's apparently getting huge TV ratings, which has got to be good for the long-term future of the game in that part of the world. But I must say that in my two decades' or so living among an expat community I've never seen so little interest in a Rugby World Cup before. Nobody's talking about it; most hardly even seem to know it's on.

Meanwhile, latest on the Russian bid for the 2027 World Cup, Today, Igor Artemyev, at a sports forum in Nizhny Novgorod, invited Putin to apply for the Rugby World Cup 2027 in Russia. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV_XYP3s7O8

(Translation from my friend Far North on Rugby Roar):

Artemyev: “The Rugby World Cup is comparable to the FIFA World Cup. We can organize it in the same cities and use the infrastructure of the FIFA World Cup 2018.” [That is, he meant the cities of the European part of Russia. Without Krasnoyarsk.]
Putin: “Of course we can organize the Rugby World Cup. But can we win this World Cup? I have nothing against it. Work through this issue with the Ministry of Sports.”
And a few minutes later, the governor of Krasnoyarsk, Alexander Uss, spoke. It was an interesting moment. He responded in absentia to Artemyev and defended the interests of the Krasnoyarsk rugby. Artemyev represents the Moscow lobby.
Uss: “I would like to support Mr. Artemyev with holding the Rugby World Cup in Russia. But when determining the host cities, keep in mind that half of the players in the Russian national team are from Krasnoyarsk.”
Last edited by Edgar on Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 21:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 21:24

dropkick wrote:The Scots are considering legal action. Not a good day for world rugby. The cancellations could cost a lot of money too. It's a matter of how many millions. €20m or €30m?


That’s a bit rich considering they came out being ok with the rules earlier in the week when the storm was originally headed for the Ireland game. Yeah, ‘rules are rules’ is all well and good when it benefits them, but now they are the ones who may be affected their attitude has changed.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 21:29

Armchair Fan wrote:What I fear is that this will result in a reactionary movement to keep RWC in its traditional strongholds.


Oh, don’t be so dramatic. This isn’t going to prevent the World Cup from going to new nations. Dont be an alarmist. The tournament has been a massive success in Japan by any measure. This is just an unfortunate natural disaster.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby antlat » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 21:31

Has Scotland vs Japan been cancelled????

Italy should then proceed and consider legal action too!

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby 4N » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 21:32

No they are supposed to make the call the morning of the game.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 21:32

The Sunday games are wait and see at the moment. Decision will be made 12 hours before the match.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 21:48

The All Blacks may have been against the rescheduling:

https://mobile.twitter.com/brianmoore66 ... 4076798978

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Hernan14 » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 22:26

I know we aren't meteorologists, but I would like to know the WR criteria regarding which matches to suspend and which not, because observing the predictions (because they are only that, predictions) the conditions for tomorrow in Shizuoka near the end of the match between Australia and Georgia and in the hours after (this thinking about the safety of the fans) are much worse than the predictions indicated for Saturday at Toyota (AB's and Italy)

Similarly, in Fukuoka (Ireland v Samoa) the winds that are expected are much more dangerous than those expected for Toyota (seeing the forecasts, it will be windy there, but nothing that doesn't suffer in my city almost daily), although in Toyota the rains will be more heavy.

I excluded completely the match in Yokohama between France-England because all the forecasts are the worst there (both in the peligrosity of the wind and in the rain).

However I have the doubt, because I think the WR grabbed a map saw that Fukuoka was further from the main trail of the typhoon and..."ok, there the match can be played", and I reiterate, all wind forecasts indicate that they will be much more important in Fukuoka than in Toyota.

I hope it is understood, I don't discuss the suspension of the matches per se (we may or may not discourage whether they should reschedule or have planned a city change in advance to this situations), but really I don't understant the criteria that they used.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Immenso » Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 23:38

thatrugbyguy wrote:The All Blacks may have been against the rescheduling:

https://mobile.twitter.com/brianmoore66 ... 4076798978


I think you mean against delaying, they weren't against rescheduling it to earlier.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby victorsra » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 02:29

Differently from the Scottish Rugby Union, the Italian Rugby Federation have fully accepted and endorsed the decision.

It might have been said here, but why Monday wasn't on the table? Not asking if "they did to help All Blacks QF", I am asking if there is an official reason.

Because if Japan-Scotland is transfered to Monday, there is no reason to not play NZ-Italy on Monday too, therefore they should've only postponed for now...
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Immenso » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 03:07

victorsra wrote:Differently from the Scottish Rugby Union, the Italian Rugby Federation have fully accepted and endorsed the decision.

It might have been said here, but why Monday wasn't on the table? Not asking if "they did to help All Blacks QF", I am asking if there is an official reason.

Because if Japan-Scotland is transfered to Monday, there is no reason to not play NZ-Italy on Monday too, therefore they should've only postponed for now...


No games are supposed to be postponed, all are supposed to be cancelled if effected by the typhoon.

If, for example, Japan were to accept a postponement - that is more an example of an extraordinary action, rather than something being on the table or not.

If the Brian Moore twitter thread is to be believed. NZ declined the game being postponed, so that they wouldn't have a 6 day turnaround to the quarterfinal. Which IMO is an almost borderline acceptable reason, if it was delayed to Monday and then a 5 day turnaround then declining would be 110% the correct thing to do.

The over-arching reason there is no reserve days for the pool stages is the uneven pool numbers and short turnarounds. E.g IF reserve days were mandated for all games - and if the typhoon struck on October 6th instead of October 12th. Would France be expected to play USA on a reserve day, reducing their 4 day turnaround to a 3 day turnaround for the Tonga match?

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 03:08

Problem could have been solved by moving the Quarter Finals back an extra day.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Immenso » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 03:15

On the subject of the possible 6 day turnaround between last pool match and quarterfinal.

That is the scheduled scenario for whoever progresses from the Japan v Scotland match. and it could have also been the same for Wales (however they will be playing their B team anyway this Sunday) if they hadn't finished second rather than first.

Here are the turnarounds for quarterfinalists:

Winner Pool A - (7 days if Japan or Scotland, 8 days if Ireland)
Runner up Pool A - (6 days if Japan or Scotland, 7 days if Ireland)
New Zealand 7 days (now 13 days)
South Africa - 12 days
England - 7 days (now 14 days)
Wales - 7 days
Australia 8 days
France 8 days (now 14 days)
Last edited by Immenso on Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 03:38, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby victorsra » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 03:17

Immenso wrote:
victorsra wrote:Differently from the Scottish Rugby Union, the Italian Rugby Federation have fully accepted and endorsed the decision.

It might have been said here, but why Monday wasn't on the table? Not asking if "they did to help All Blacks QF", I am asking if there is an official reason.

Because if Japan-Scotland is transfered to Monday, there is no reason to not play NZ-Italy on Monday too, therefore they should've only postponed for now...


No games are supposed to be postponed, all are supposed to be cancelled if effected by the typhoon.



Where is that written? AFAIK, WR said weeks ago games could be rescheduled.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Immenso » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 03:30

victorsra wrote:
Immenso wrote:
victorsra wrote:Differently from the Scottish Rugby Union, the Italian Rugby Federation have fully accepted and endorsed the decision.

It might have been said here, but why Monday wasn't on the table? Not asking if "they did to help All Blacks QF", I am asking if there is an official reason.

Because if Japan-Scotland is transfered to Monday, there is no reason to not play NZ-Italy on Monday too, therefore they should've only postponed for now...


No games are supposed to be postponed, all are supposed to be cancelled if effected by the typhoon.



Where is that written? AFAIK, WR said weeks ago games could be rescheduled.


It's going to be hard to google that now, pages and pages of news stories on the typhoon.

The tournament rulebook
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/tournament-rules

Pool Matches
Cancelled Matches
Where a pool Match cannot be commenced on the day in which it is scheduled, it shall not be postponed to the following day, and shall be considered as cancelled.

In such situations, the result shall be declared a draw and Teams will be allocated two Match points each and no score registered.

For the avoidance of doubt, no bonus points will be awarded..


Knock-out Matches
Postponed Matches
Where a knock-out Match cannot be commenced on the scheduled Match day, it will be considered as postponed, and will be re-scheduled to be played within the two days following the scheduled Match day, or such longer period as determined by RWCL.


There are also explanations on delayed and abandoned matches at that link.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 04:15

What's really insane to me is how WR had so many years to have contingency plans in case of this happening. Typhoons happen and FIFA dealt with this in the past with the 2007 Women's World Cup in China. It's not like there wasn't a precedent for this either.

I don't know what's more the more embarrassing disaster in the world right now - the California blackouts or this Rugby World Cup fiasco in Japan caused by the typhoon. As a Mexican I'm bemused by all of this.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Immenso » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 04:58

I've moved on from the 'lack of contingency' rage. I just dont actually see how a blanket contingency policy (of reserve days) would be possible to implement in a fair way across the uneven pool stages.

Not that I think postponing Saturday's games to Sunday would be particularly unfair, but that's just 'luck' that it's the last round

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby grande » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 06:48

Just so y'all know, this isn't a regular typhoon. It's the strongest seen in 20 years, and 1400km across. A normal typhoon would affect a couple venues; this one is nearing down on at least five, possibly eight, depending on which way it heads.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby rey200 » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 06:52

Immenso wrote:I've moved on from the 'lack of contingency' rage. I just dont actually see how a blanket contingency policy (of reserve days) would be possible to implement in a fair way across the uneven pool stages.

Not that I think postponing Saturday's games to Sunday would be particularly unfair, but that's just 'luck' that it's the last round


that's just another reason to expand to 24. Every game should be moved 24 hours back and forth in case of emergency.
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