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Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby Tobar » Thu, 07 Nov 2019, 14:23

Apparently there will be an official announcement on November 29th regarding where the clubs will be based.

http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2019/1 ... ame=iossmf

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby ficcp » Thu, 07 Nov 2019, 21:59

NaBUru38 wrote:Uruguayan rugby journalist Ignacio Chans claims there will be 7 teams.

https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/la ... 9115162154

I hope that Messrs Chanes and Hourcade were correct in their information about a chilean team, but it was dated at the end of last month.

Nevertheless, the social unrest has not calmed down and 3 important events that were supposed to occurr in our country were cancelled : The APEC Meeting (with the chiefs of state of the Asia-Pacific region), The COP Meeting (UN Conference on Weather Change) and the final of soccer champions teams of Southamerica (Copa Libertadores).
So, assuming we get a calmer enviroment between February and June, the economic resources to fund a team are very much in doubt :

A.- The public budget for Sports is being reduced.
B.- The companies must face an increase in salaries and also in Corporate Taxes as a part of the Social Solution.
C.- The wealthier people as individuals will also face an increase in taxes.

From a realistic point of view is hard to get sponsors in such conditions for a project which is not very clear yet. My guess is that the league will not have a chilean team in 2020, but I hope to be wrong because a team in the League would be good for chilean Rugby. 2021 season will be something else.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby carbonero » Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 16:10

We are down to five teams > https://seguraafuera.com/la-liga-tendra ... anquicias/

Argentina shouldn’t participate. This is a waste of time.

Pablo Bouza will coach the only Uruguayan franchise

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby PRCL » Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 16:33

carbonero wrote:We are down to five teams > https://seguraafuera.com/la-liga-tendra ... anquicias/

Argentina shouldn’t participate. This is a waste of time.

Pablo Bouza will coach the only Uruguayan franchise


Esa soberbia fue parte del papelón que hicieron en Japón. Teniendo todo.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby carbonero » Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 17:00

¿Papelón? Por casa como andamos maestro. No ven un mundial ni en figurita. Teniendo todo…

Read the thread. Piñeyrúa deserved the benefit of the doubt but he never delivered on his promises. I’m just fed up with his bullshit. The same for Hourcade

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby ficcp » Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 17:02

PRCL , no estoy de acuerdo:

1.- No es soberbia. Carbonero opinó en otro tema que tener jugadores pagados sólo 6 meses no contribuye a mantener una estructura profesional ´permanente y que la franquicia debilitaría alos clubes.

2.- Calificar de papelón la actuación de Los Pumas no corresponde, perdieron por 2 ptos. contra un equipo inferior es cierto(Francia) pero la otra derrota fue contra un equipo muy superior y bien preparado.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby ficcp » Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 17:05

carbonero wrote:We are down to five teams > https://seguraafuera.com/la-liga-tendra ... anquicias/

Argentina shouldn’t participate. This is a waste of time.

Pablo Bouza will coach the only Uruguayan franchise


Finally , the real situation is emerging : From 8 franchises originally planned, it would start with 5 which is in accordance with the real possibilities.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby PRCL » Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 18:00

Bueno si me expresé mal...disculpen....el papelón ha sido de Chile durante los últimos 10-15 años y su falta de visión y capacidad para estar al compás del desarrollo de la región.

En un tono más amistoso, mi critica a Argentina responde a temas más técnicos y de pretensiones. Después de la guerra todos somos generales, pero era un mundial ganable que llevaba 9 años gestándose....y se sabe eso. Argentina fue a competir y no a ganar mucho antes de jugarlo. No se cuanto más va a pasar para que Argentina vaya con propiedad a un Mundial.

Respecto a la franquicia no comparto que sea perdida de tiempo. Limita a los clubes: correcto, pero los fortalece y promueve la competencia interna los clubes. Rugby UC Campeón, con un staff 100% chileno y donde tuvo que echar mano a jugadores nuevos porque tuvo 10 jugadores inutilizables todo el torneo debido a la Academia que prepara la federación. Eso suma.

En esta primera edición, los principales beneficiados serán Paraguay y Chile, oportunidades para dar estos pasos no están cada día. Aunque sea con 15 jugadores rentado, esto va sumar y mucho.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby Tobar » Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 18:46

carbonero wrote:We are down to five teams > https://seguraafuera.com/la-liga-tendra ... anquicias/

Argentina shouldn’t participate. This is a waste of time.

Pablo Bouza will coach the only Uruguayan franchise


If it's reduced to 5 franchises then the competition should be "stronger" - less dilution and the Argentina franchise would essentially be playing against the national teams of Chile, Brazil, Paraguay. The season length should be shortened as they say Feb. 29 to May 23/30 which is 13 or 14 weeks. If 2 of those are playoffs then that's double round robin plus 3 or 4 extra weekends which doesn't make much sense from a competition standpoint. The other complication is that with 5 teams someone will have a bye week every weekend which makes little sense. Perhaps that's the reason why the season takes so much longer than necessary.

At this point, just make it a matrix season and call the teams Uruguay XV, Brazil XV, etc. Get some free streaming, pay the players a stipend, get a couple of sponsors then launch the league for real the following year. This will surely be good for the teams involved to have stronger competition (with the possible exception of Argentina's franchise) but it's not like it will be a huge step up. Might as well just let it replace the Sudamerica 6 Naciones and make the teams feel like "pro" teams.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 23:57

I've talked today with CBRu about the franchise. They still have nothing confirmed. Corinthians talk is not true. Was only a possibility some months ago, but hasn't progressed.
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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 02:25

it's kind of funny that they discussed the launch of this league two years ago. I questioned then and still question where the money would come from to support it...but many said I was wrong. But if you've been following what Victor has been saying instead of parroting Chans or Tait we know that this will likely not get off the ground. That World Rugby isn't supporting anything other than what they already are doing. Uruguay will get greater funding due to their WC results...but what has Brazil and Chile done most recently to deserve that? The Summer campaign was so-so.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby Tobar » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 03:33

Chans has been a very reliable source and Tait gets most of his info from Chans. But Chans is Uruguay focused so he gets most of his info from Uruguayan sources, like Pineyrua. He’s only reported on what he’s been told are current plans and everyone here should know that.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby Raven » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 09:53

It´s only 16 more days until they launch this thing in Montevideo. We can try and think of all sorts of conspiracies, but clearly no one knows nothing.

- The Brazilian Rugby Union are extremely cautios when referring to the whole project, yet the return of a few players from other professional set ups might lead to think they are back for a reason. I don´t mean to argue nor do I have proven info, maybe there´s family reasons, who knows?, but they are back and one can assume they´ll be playing rugby somewhere.
- If my memory serves me right, Hourcade has always talked about 5 franchises, maybe 6. He kind of crossed out Paraguay from the get go, but with Olimpia now backing the project (IF they are...) they may be overtaking a second Brazilian team. Remember he also said Chile played "social rugby" and that a lot of work had to be done before they ventured into a HP National Team, they needed time; they still do, and the political scenes are also delaying things further. He may also know what he is talking about as he talked to all unions, the coaches, saw the players that may have the level of play, and he is playing his own media game as he wouldn´t want extra teams that cannot compete to that level both on the pitch and off it. After all he is the Sudamérica Rugby HP Director. He now also mentions "many Mitre 10 players coming over", I´d like to see that, with all that´s going on in South America at the moment.
- Piñeirua / Chans / URU are all hyped by their RWC, jumped on board to this idea long ago but have lost the initial support, but (understandably) want to keep their momentum, although they aren´t dumb and know many of their best players have extended their contracts in the MLR and the ones in Europe aren´t coming back. It was a good move that of announcing the confirmation of 2 U20 Portuguese, 2 RWC Namibians and a Tongan as players who have already signed contracts.

- With this scenario I have to agree with carbonero, it is ridiculous that the UAR presents a side, at least one as strong as the one we saw in the Currie Cup First Division. BUT, they need 5 to make this float somehow. 2 from Uruguay, 1 from Paraguay, 1 from Brazil and the Argentine one. Strange that there'll be semifinals as well, but to each its own.

On another note, Tucuman wanting to prove they can play as a provincial team, with "loyal" fans ... San Juan (the UAR presidents' union) plays a random friendly with Chile... -can I venture to think some talks may have happened there too in the after-match?- ... Cordoba keeping very quiet, nothing is being said about training / playing base for what alledgedly will be the home ground of the Argentine franchise (will it be Jaguares XV?, is it worth it?)

Too many "Ifs" and now it´s time to play the waiting game.

The idea of having Brazil XV, URU XV, etc, just for the sake of it won't help anybody. Nobody will come and watch that...

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby victorsra » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 12:55

- The Brazilian Rugby Union are extremely cautios when referring to the whole project, yet the return of a few players from other professional set ups might lead to think they are back for a reason. I don´t mean to argue nor do I have proven info, maybe there´s family reasons, who knows?, but they are back and one can assume they´ll be playing rugby somewhere.


Cautious? No. The last CEO made the mess making sure he'd deliver Sudamerica Rugby 2 franchises. The new CEO is trying to clean the mess (in like a month in the job... ). What about the CBRu's Council? Oh, that's the big question.


The idea of having Brazil XV, URU XV, etc, just for the sake of it won't help anybody. Nobody will come and watch that...

Nobody will watch any franchise created from zero either. The fact is: there isn't market (except in Argentina) for anything apart from the national team. Period.

The REAL rugby market in Brazil is some number between 50.000 and 100.000 people (not 4 million like CBRu used to say). People really involved with rugby are around 30.000. The other 50-100.000 are people that sometimes watch it, if we look at average Tupis' audience (RWC is special and I don't have the audience numbers yet). In other words, we are talking about a sport the size of a small professional football club.
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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby Tobar » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 13:21

victorsra wrote:
The idea of having Brazil XV, URU XV, etc, just for the sake of it won't help anybody. Nobody will come and watch that...

Nobody will watch any franchise created from zero either. The fact is: there isn't market (except in Argentina) for anything apart from the national team. Period.


Exactly. No one is going to watch it this year outside of diehards like us so just accept the loss and play it like this. They can make the names sound more professional and get new kits if that helps but I doubt more than a few hundred people will show up to these games anyway, if that. Do what Global Rapid Rugby is doing and have a showcase for the tournament and keep the tickets super cheap. Some teams will do well and others won’t but this will give us important data for the league before it really starts.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby ficcp » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 13:45

The idea of having Brazil XV, URU XV, etc, just for the sake of it won't help anybody. Nobody will come and watch that...

Nobody will watch any franchise created from zero either. The fact is: there isn't market (except in Argentina) for anything apart from the national team. Period.

The REAL rugby market in Brazil is some number between 50.000 and 100.000 people (not 4 million like CBRu used to say). People really involved with rugby are around 30.000. The other 50-100.000 are people that sometimes watch it, if we look at average Tupis' audience (RWC is special and I don't have the audience numbers yet). In other words, we are talking about a sport the size of a small professional football club.[/quote]

Victor : this post should be in "Rugby in Brazil" but it also applies here.

You have stated several times that CBRU is investing resources provided by WR to develop and maintain an elite team (The Tupis) , subject they have approved with a "10" , no doubts. Nevertheless, you have also mentioned that there is no development of club and Youth Rugby. How will the CBRU approach to a 2023 or especially 2027 RWC classification if the current team is aging and there is no a policy to generate their replacements in numbers?Will the franchise hire young players with potential or would go for a no risk options of proved internationals plus foreigners?

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby ficcp » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 14:06

TheStroBro wrote:it's kind of funny that they discussed the launch of this league two years ago. I questioned then and still question where the money would come from to support it...but many said I was wrong. But if you've been following what Victor has been saying instead of parroting Chans or Tait we know that this will likely not get off the ground. That World Rugby isn't supporting anything other than what they already are doing. Uruguay will get greater funding due to their WC results...but what has Brazil and Chile done most recently to deserve that? The Summer campaign was so-so.


The National Chilean team does not receive special funding from the WR: only travelling and hospitality for official tests plus GIR. The Sevens program has been founded by the local Olimpic commitee. In several posts I have doubted the participation of a chilean franchise because it is very unlikely a financing from the public or private sectors, but if WR is going to fund the franchise, it would be convenient to know the conditions of that financing. Which are the rights and which are the obligations.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby victorsra » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 14:56

They don't know how to deal with club rugby situation. They have a high performance academy with junior players and a program to find young players by biometrics. It will look even more that the Tupis are the only professional rugby "club" in Brazil, with u20s as well. They'll create those players without the clubs. At least this was the last CEO's approach. Let's see if the new one changes this.

Brazil is probably doing something never done before in rugby. Create a WC-level national team without club rugby.
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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 19:33

Tobar wrote:
Exactly. No one is going to watch it this year outside of diehards like us so just accept the loss and play it like this. They can make the names sound more professional and get new kits if that helps but I doubt more than a few hundred people will show up to these games anyway, if that. Do what Global Rapid Rugby is doing and have a showcase for the tournament and keep the tickets super cheap. Some teams will do well and others won’t but this will give us important data for the league before it really starts.



Well Kings tickets are super cheap and no on goes to those games.

Rapid Rugby? Andrew Forrest is worth $8 Billion.
Last edited by TheStroBro on Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 21:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby Tobar » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 20:49

I don’t understand how that matters. The plan is for the league to start anyway so that money has to be there regardless of whether or not this is a matrix season or a real season. If the money isn’t there then it’s a moot point.

My point is that there is little difference between having a ”Season 0” and “Season 1” in terms of revenue so might as well keep it simple and not overextend.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 23:58

But what gives anyone the idea that there will be a season zero. At this point in season 1 of MLR we all of the teams and the SaberCats were already playing pre-season fixtures.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 14 Nov 2019, 01:58

There is an economic/political/social crisis in the region. Utopia to believe there would be private investor for a new (uncertain) professional league.
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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby Tobar » Thu, 14 Nov 2019, 03:05

TheStroBro wrote:But what gives anyone the idea that there will be a season zero. At this point in season 1 of MLR we all of the teams and the SaberCats were already playing pre-season fixtures.


That’s a completely different point than what I was making and you know that.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby carbonero » Fri, 15 Nov 2019, 11:08

Tucuman wants to revive the provincial tournament in March/April of 2020. Why don’t they join forces with SLAR just for next year to make the season more compelling? The league can go from February 15 to April 11. Seven rounds, semifinal and final. Teams:

1. Olimpia - Asunción
2. Peñarol - Montevideo
3. Tupis XV - Sao Paulo
4. Cóndores XV - Santiago
5. Naranjas - Tucumán
6. Dogos - Córdoba
7. Ñandúes - Rosario
8. Jaguares XV - itinerant team based in Buenos Aires that plays in nearby cities like La Plata, Junin, San Nicolás, Mar del Plata, Pinamar, Bahia Blanca, Tandil, Pergamino, etc.

The UAR plans to hire around 35 professionals for SLAR/Arg. XV. They should be dispersed in the four local teams. Still mostly amateurs sides but sprinkled with some professionals. In a perfect world, Rosario would take players from Entre Ríos, Tucumán from Santiago del Estero and so on. If the provincial unions play hardball, assign the remaining players to Jaguares XV or send them to foreign franchises.

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Re: South American League (LAR)

Postby Raven » Fri, 15 Nov 2019, 11:54

That would be awesome. But difficult for it to occur.

On another note, apparently is a big known rumor that Uruguay will only present 1 franchise in this edition. Peñarol is out allegedly, Nacional is in.

I am confused as in how are the 5 adding up with only 1 Uru, 1 Brazil, 1 Arg and 1 Paraguay. Either Chile participates or Brazil has 2?

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