Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Is it time for rugby to split again?

User avatar
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue, 15 Apr 2014, 18:36
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby iul » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 10:16

The cartel nations have clearly demonstrated they have no interest in opening up rugby so that it can grow. They're only interested in keeping themselves at the top of the game so I ask: is it time for rugby to split again? By that I mean:
-kick the cartel nations out of world rugby (first they'd have to be made a minority on the board somehow... probably)
- Establish new rugby federations in the cartel nations
- Manage the international game differently, by expanding the RWC, creating Euro cup, Americas cup, etc.. every 4 years, having a yearly regional championship every year with promotion and relegation and also reforming the club game along similar lines.

User avatar
Posts: 4639
Joined: Wed, 22 Jul 2015, 18:20
Location: Moscow
National Flag:
RussiaRussia

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 10:45

I think that most likely option is when cartel nations will throw out rest ... :D
Image

Posts: 1624
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby Tobar » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 17:42

It't not physically possible but somehow this has less than a 0% chance of ever happening.

Posts: 6590
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby victorsra » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 19:37

Nonsense talk.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 102
Joined: Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 20:45
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby dans » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 20:44

victorsra wrote:Nonsense talk.


But why nonsense?...maybe quite a bit outrageous, a 'black swan' event once in a generation... :)
When we are talking the amount of money on offer (many 10's of $ bilions) about anything could happen.
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/new-worl ... s-in-japan

If the ideea stands the financial assesment (re. the link above), private equity firms will be happy to do anything to take control of the Test calendar structured around 6N Ltd+RC+Japan&Fiji and culminating in a bi-annual final series or a 4 year head-to-head (...with a magic entry key for US, if they manage to break into that market...or whoever has £300milion to buy 15% of 6N Ltd and play a bit of rugby!)
Then who needs a RWC event every 4 years?!...I don't think some organisation like World Rugby can stand in the way of such 'gladiatoristic' approach, a popular approach now as it was common in Nero's ancient Rome!

In that case WR would have to either play ball to get some 'change' or show a moral stand for the spirit of the sport.
But hey THAT would be outrageous, yes...and they'll need that 'black swan' to start the ball rolling...!
;)

Posts: 6590
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby victorsra » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 20:59

If you kick the T1s out, rugby's economy is tiny. You gain NOTHING. It basically the same as keeping them playing apart. An European Cup withou T1? You already have, it is called REC. An Americas Cup without Pumas? It is called ARC. And what, doing a coup against those unions? Is that serious discussion? Those unions are linked to local sports ministires, Olympic Comitees, not to mention all contracts, influence and etc inside WR's economy (and the impact of the RWC). Besides, World Rugby has a key position in the IOC as many T2s depend a lot on local NOCs money... you don't make a war like that. Sorry, childish discussion.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 102
Joined: Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 20:45
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby dans » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 21:16

So, the outcome is World Rugby will play ball to whatever gets proposed by this group (6N+RC+Japan&Fiji) because the payoff is 'something' instead of 'nothing'...and that's only because now, they control the Test calendar.

Posts: 6590
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby victorsra » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 22:10

All the fight around the World League system hasn't ended. Pichot-Lapasset have a plan. We don't know what it is. Sometimes we think changes are impossible, but if you are able to shift 4 T1s, well, things change.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 310
Joined: Sun, 31 Aug 2014, 11:36
National Flag:
PakistanPakistan

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby jservuk » Sat, 09 Nov 2019, 01:34

I think idea is perhaps easily dismissed, but if we take a leaf out of FIFA's early history, they grew the sport and The World Cup without much help from the British (who of course, were the best at the game ). The influence of The British has been limited for well over 50 years, even when a Briton was the FIFA president.

The argument against 'going solo' is that there isn't enough money in Rugby. But we have seen that WR is desperate to portray RWC as a truly global spectacle. I think they would have much to lose if such moves were threatened.

Whether anyone actually does this or not, if they threatened it they might get heard.

User avatar
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat, 28 Sep 2019, 20:55
Location: Namek
National Flag:
MexicoMexico

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Sat, 09 Nov 2019, 02:33

jservuk wrote:I think idea is perhaps easily dismissed, but if we take a leaf out of FIFA's early history, they grew the sport and The World Cup without much help from the British (who of course, were the best at the game ). The influence of The British has been limited for well over 50 years, even when a Briton was the FIFA president.

The argument against 'going solo' is that there isn't enough money in Rugby. But we have seen that WR is desperate to portray RWC as a truly global spectacle. I think they would have much to lose if such moves were threatened.

Whether anyone actually does this or not, if they threatened it they might get heard.


Apples and oranges my friend. England and friends were pretty much outnumbered in that era from other teams who were as capable as they were from Europe and Latin America. Hungary destroyed them quite famously too.

Heck, I even remember Mexico actually beat England during that time.

Rugby is nowhere near that at all. England probably remains the most conservative union in the world.

User avatar
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue, 15 Apr 2014, 18:36
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby iul » Sat, 09 Nov 2019, 07:11

victorsra wrote:If you kick the T1s out, rugby's economy is tiny. You gain NOTHING. It basically the same as keeping them playing apart. An European Cup withou T1? You already have, it is called REC. An Americas Cup without Pumas? It is called ARC. And what, doing a coup against those unions? Is that serious discussion? Those unions are linked to local sports ministires, Olympic Comitees, not to mention all contracts, influence and etc inside WR's economy (and the impact of the RWC). Besides, World Rugby has a key position in the IOC as many T2s depend a lot on local NOCs money... you don't make a war like that. Sorry, childish discussion.

Not without T1s. With T1s under new governing bodies. We would still have England, Wales, etc. but governed buy tue ERF (English rugby federation) WRF, etc...vI think plenty of clubs in those coumtries could be tempted to switch if they were offered a voice in the new governing bodies. For example major decisions in tue RFU, such as electing a new chairman are done by a closed shop of 60 to 80 reprezentatives from all sort of organizations, including the army.
Offer clubs the chance to be a part of a one club one vote organization and they might switch.

Posts: 1624
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby Tobar » Sat, 09 Nov 2019, 14:16

No, this is a nonsensical idea that could never happen.

User avatar
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 11:27
National Flag:
WalesWales

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 16 Jan 2020, 03:11

jservuk wrote:I think idea is perhaps easily dismissed, but if we take a leaf out of FIFA's early history, they grew the sport and The World Cup without much help from the British (who of course, were the best at the game ). The influence of The British has been limited for well over 50 years, even when a Briton was the FIFA president.

The argument against 'going solo' is that there isn't enough money in Rugby. But we have seen that WR is desperate to portray RWC as a truly global spectacle. I think they would have much to lose if such moves were threatened.

Whether anyone actually does this or not, if they threatened it they might get heard.


Well SANZAR have shown they are willing to threaten the 6 nations to not tour them in November and they have made greater effort in trying to grow the game, even if only in their own interest. Just kick the 6 Nations out from World Rugby, so no more world cup and no more July and November tests against World Rugby members. 50% of tv revenue for the world cup comes from the UK and France, but with Japan's market now showing it's potential perhaps there is a bit more leverage. I'm sure France would break quite quickly as well with their internationalist tendencies.

Reform the World Rugby council with 1 vote for each regional association and that's it. No more 3 votes for T1 and 2 votes for T2 etc. Soccer is great with 1 vote for each member but perhaps rugby is still a bit too under develop for that. So each member in the regional association gets 1 vote within their own congress and they take their majority decision to the World council. SANZAR can play more fixtures against the likes of Japan, Pacific Islands, USA and Canada to make up for the lack of incoming tours to start with.

Posts: 18
Joined: Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 18:57
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby Rumpelstilzchen » Thu, 16 Jan 2020, 22:47

These are basically the same same reasons FIRA was founded in the 30s. It wasn't very successful and ended with integrating into the IRB in the 90s.

Posts: 3281
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 17 Jan 2020, 07:28

Rumpelstilzchen wrote:These are basically the same same reasons FIRA was founded in the 30s. It wasn't very successful and ended with integrating into the IRB in the 90s.


FIRA was finally founded, because France was suspended from the Cartel, but they didn't want to stop playing international rugby. Also the FIRA was, the private yearly entity of the Cartel nations aside, the continental federation and has always been that. And don't see that many parallels to be honest.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 495
Joined: Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 21:26
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Is it time for rugby to split again?

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 17 Jan 2020, 07:34

If this split happened, the Six Nations unions would carry on largely unaffected. We like the autumn internationals, but the Six Nations is our main event.

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests