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Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Sat, 08 Feb 2020, 03:47

Yes, that's it.

About the Brazilian clubs, if 1%=2,1m, all numbers i gave cam be like 1m bigger or 1m smaller.
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Sat, 08 Feb 2020, 03:48

victorsra wrote:Here: RSSF stats for fans in Brazil: http://rsssfbrasil.com/miscellaneous/torcidas.htm#s29

The last one, from 2018, with aprox numbers and only clubs that passed 1%

1º Flamengo (RJ) 18 % = 37,8 million fans
2º Corinthians (SP) 14 % = 29,4m
3º São Paulo (SP) 8 % = 16,8m
4º Palmeiras (SP) 6 % = 12,6m
5º Vasco (RJ) 4 % = 8,6m
Cruzeiro (MG) 4 % = 8,6m
Grêmio (RS) 4 % = 8,6m
7 Santos (SP) 3 % = 6,3m
Internacional (RS) 3 % = 6,3m
10º Atlético Mineiro (MG) 2 % = 4,3m
11º Bahia (BA) 1 % = 2,1m
Botafogo (RJ) 1 % = 2,1m
Fluminense (RJ) 1 % = 2,1m

- none: 22 % = 46,2m

In other words, too many clubs, all rivals. Not smart to choose one, even if it is a huge one. The % doesn't help.

The 14th club is Vitória (BA) with around 1,5m, followed by Sport Recife (PE), Santa Cruz (PE), Coritiba (PR), Athletico Paranaense (PR) and Ceará (CE), all with like 1m-1,5m. Too many possible fans thrown away....
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 08 Feb 2020, 07:06

Rugby in Sao Paulo needs its own identity. I can see that using a football club brand makes sense in Uruguay, if they are planning to launch a second SLAR club some time soon.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby TuMachNach » Tue, 11 Feb 2020, 22:56

News from Corinthians. They exist!

Here's the first post in their official Twitter account:

https://twitter.com/CorinthiansSLAR/sta ... 5408736257

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 11 Feb 2020, 23:53

They exist, they are the Brazilian Rugby Union (CBRu). The football club only allowed CBRu to use the name. It is 100% operated and funded by CBRu.

We interviewed today the CEO of CBRu in our podcast. Soon I'll post here the link for you to listen. He explained everything about Corinthians.
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Wed, 12 Feb 2020, 04:01

And here you are the Mesa Oval podcast (in Portuguese) with CBRu's CEO. Part of it is about Corinthians http://www.portaldorugby.com.br/noticias/mesaoval173
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby theDarky » Wed, 12 Feb 2020, 07:01

victorsra wrote:They exist, they are the Brazilian Rugby Union (CBRu). The football club only allowed CBRu to use the name. It is 100% operated and funded by CBRu.

We interviewed today the CEO of CBRu in our podcast. Soon I'll post here the link for you to listen. He explained everything about Corinthians.


So the question is if they pay for the brand or not ... I dont see the values to have the Corinthians brand for their franchise

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Wed, 12 Feb 2020, 16:13

Finaly the club anounced https://www.corinthians.com.br/noticias ... xv-em-2020

So the question is if they pay for the brand or not ... I dont see the values to have the Corinthians brand for their franchise

It was to add value before they sell the franchies to a partner. However, it failed, as nobody bought it. And now it is too late to change the choice (Gilgronis approach is not creating followers :lol: )
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Wed, 12 Feb 2020, 16:36

Also, no Corinthians stadium. They have 2 stadiums and none will be available for rugby. CBRu is trying a stadium in nearby cities...
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Pedro1 » Wed, 12 Feb 2020, 16:48

In the end we got nothing by associating with Corinthians. I hope we drop the name for next season.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Wed, 12 Feb 2020, 19:02

victorsra wrote:And here you are the Mesa Oval podcast (in Portuguese) with CBRu's CEO. Part of it is about Corinthians http://www.portaldorugby.com.br/noticias/mesaoval173


Do you have a summary in English?

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Wed, 12 Feb 2020, 20:21

It is basically what I already said, but let's do it:

- When Jadoul became the CEO (in October), the Corinthians project was already there, as Danza was working on it. They did tried to negociate with Flamengo (from Rio) as well;
- The SLAR project started awarding 2 spots for Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil and 1 for Chile, Paraguay and Colombia. This is what the original agreement and countries are still working to achieve this;
- CBRu's project was to sell 100% of the costs and operation of the franchise. It was around 4m dollars the price. After failing, they tried a 50-50 model, but also failed. Only in Late January the CBRu Council voted to have CBRu fully funding and operating the franchise. That's why Brazil was too late, they were trying to find partners, but failed;
- The Corinthians agreement is what I said: Corinthians offers the name and brand for free, but puts no money on it. And no stadium or facilities either;
- World Rugby pays PIs players salaries, but other costs related to those player would be with CBRu (like accomodations and etc).. Also there was no time for visas when the Council approved the new model. That's why they rejected foreign players now;
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby argie » Thu, 13 Feb 2020, 00:37

Then it is possible for Corinthians to play with Cafeteros for fifth place. We will have to wait until next year to see if they form a more competitive team.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby TuMachNach » Thu, 13 Feb 2020, 01:20

There will be a preseason match between Corinthians and Peñarol on February 26th.

https://twitter.com/ObservadorUY/status ... 8361118720

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby argie » Thu, 13 Feb 2020, 01:57

The Ceibos' CEO planting a Ceibo tree as a kind of foundation of the franchise, at the facilities of the Tala Rugby Club in Córdoba, where they will play at home through a five-year contract.
They also opened a contest on social media to choose their team pet.

Image
https://twitter.com/ScrumESPN/status/12 ... 13/photo/1

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Raven » Thu, 13 Feb 2020, 09:47

TuMachNach wrote:There will be a preseason match between Corinthians and Peñarol on February 26th.

https://twitter.com/ObservadorUY/status ... 8361118720


I´m gonna say something that probably many are thinking... Is it worth putting together a friendly game with a team that is potentially (most likely) the least prepared side in the League, that you´ll be playing twice already, and meanwhile there´s a number of provincial teams in Argentina that can provide better competition OR even have Cafeteros playing some games before their "play off" showcase?

Olimpia had a game of "Possibles v Probables", even that looks like a better idea. NO disrespect to the Tupis...sorry, Corinthians; but what's the benefit for either side? even for the audience that might turn up, same rival they´ll be playing in a months time in a tournament where you play 4 teams twice...

Nothing's gonna change, but had to let it out of my system! :D

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 13 Feb 2020, 14:19

it is cheaper to go from São Paulo to Montevideo than to Medellín. That's why. CBRu is counting the cents... And for the Uruguayans it is at home, so, whatever.
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 13 Feb 2020, 19:45

First 5 players for Corinthians: https://www.instagram.com/p/B8hIEacAXDz/

Arthur Bergo: flanker/nº8, 26 yo, 26 caps;
André “Buda” Arruda: flanker/nº 8, 31 yo, 29 caps;
Cléber “Gelado” Dias (Poli): flanker/lock, 25 yo, 31 caps;
Gabriel Paganini (Band Saracens): lock, 27 yo, 21 caps;
Caique Silva Segura (São José): prop, 27 yo, 24 caps;

Tomorrow 5 more names will be released...
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Fri, 14 Feb 2020, 16:15

More 5 players for Corinthians:

http://www.portaldorugby.com.br/noticia ... orinthians


Douglas Rauth: scrum-half, 23 yo, 3 caps;
Daniel “Maranhão” Lima: wing and scrum-hallf, 22 yo, 6 caps;
Joel Ramirez: prop, 22 yo (Argentina born), debut against Barbarians in 2019;
Leonel “Messi” Moreno: prop, 23 yo (Argentina born), debut against Barbarians in 2019;
Felipe Cunha: scrum-half, 21 yo, debut against Barbarians in 2019;


Also the coach Fernando Portugal confirmed there won't be non-Tupis players. Both Moreno and Ramirez came to Brazil from Jockey Club de Villa Maria (Córdoba province).
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Fri, 14 Feb 2020, 23:18

Pretty young crew

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Pichulonko » Sat, 15 Feb 2020, 00:22

Not surprised at all that Brazil is poaching players from Argentina at a very young age. It's also no secret that despite the investment fro CBRu their juniors perform at a very poor level and not much could be expected of them as seniors.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Sat, 15 Feb 2020, 02:25

Why are you saying poaching?

Sincerely, I dont know yet these two new players backgrounds. But 100% of players Brazil brought recently from Argentina are sons of Brazilians: Stefano Giantorno, Yan Rosetti and Caique Silva. Cbru's policy has been the sons of the diaspora. Sancerys, Bourda-Couhet, Massari, Dell'Acqua, Fiori, Harvey, all sons of Brazilians... And Reeves came to Brasil because he married a Brazilian. So, not random "poach".
Last edited by victorsra on Sat, 15 Feb 2020, 04:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Sat, 15 Feb 2020, 02:40

5 more players:

Felipe Sancery: center, 26 yo (35 caps);
Lucas Abud: prop, 27 yo (40 caps);
Robert Tenório: center/wing, 24 yo (19 caps);
Matheus "Blade" Rocha: prop, 23 yo (10 caps);
Endy Willian Pinheiro: hooker, 25 yo (5 caps);
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 15 Feb 2020, 03:42

victorsra wrote:Why are you saying poaching?

Sincerely, I dont know yet these two new players backgrounds. But 100% of players Brazil brought refently from Argentina are sons of Brazilians: Stefano Giantorno, Yan Rosetti and Caique Silva. Cbru's policy has been the sons of the diaspora. Sancerys, Bourda-Couhet, Massari, Dell'Acqua, Fiori, Harvey, all sons of Brazilians... And Reeves came to Brasil because he married a Brazilian. So, not random "poach".


Welcome to having to justify your countries selections. Both Australia and NZ have had to do this a lot over the years. We constantly hear of supposed poaching from the PI despite the vast, vast majority of those players were either born and raised in either country for moved to them at very young ages. Eve our obvious 'poaches' aren't true poaches. Taniela Tupou actually said in interviews prior to leaving school that he wanted to play for Australia as his first choice. Over NZ where he was actually recruited and his homeland in Tonga. And Koribete was brought over by RL not Rugby. And has chosen to make his life here.

Hell, even England's PI players aren't complete poaches. The Vunipola's and the likes of Joe Cokanasiga were either born or were raised from a young age in England/Wales.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 15 Feb 2020, 07:05

The only real Poacher in rugby is New Zealand. Sevu Reece is poached. I personally don't have a big problem with it. New Zealand offers something Fiji cannot. I have more of a problem with players representing the land of their grandparent, or professional players migrating because of rugby, then qualifying through residency. That has changed to 5 years now, so I don't think that is still a big problem.
The only problem with poaching is what happens when a player falls out of favour with the national team? World Rugby should consider a rule whereby if a player hasn't played for their tier 1 national team for 3 years, they can resign from that team and qualify for the tier2/3 country where they were born and raised. I don't think many players will do it because most will be too old by the time they're eligible. But it would benefit a poached Pacific Islands player who gets one cap then never gets selected again. Like all things there could be unintended consequences.

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