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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 18 Nov 2017, 23:31

Thomas wrote:I am not surprised about the FIJI - NZ result. how may Tonga players defected from NZ from the eve of the world cup put their plans in disarray. until they sort out the eligibility issue it will continue to be a problem.

In the commentary they were talking about Hayne returning to the Kangaroos ? seriously? Do they make the rules as they go along?

Also Lebanese players are eligible for the Green and Gold and State of Origin. I take any development with a pinch of salt.

It seems Australia have 3 teams in this tournament:

Australia
Lebanon
Italy

NZ have 2 squads in effect as 8 current NZ Players defected to Tonga including 1 Australian player does that mean all will be forgiven after the World Cup and business as usual or all this players will forgo State of Origin and tours to the UK?


There would be a number of players from the smaller nations who would take a Kangaroos jersey if offered one next season. Most won't because they aren't good enough but if given the opportunity they would.

In reality, Australia has supplied in effect at least 4 teams worth of players to the RLWC with NZ probably looking at a closer to 3 when you also take the Samoans into account. Australia, Lebanon and Italy are the most obvious but if you were to go through each and every other squad with the exception of NZ (most likely) you'll find at least one Australian. Ireland had at least one in Shannon MacDonald, Scotland had a couple but most prominently Luke Douglas brother of Wallaby Kane Douglas. Actually, Wales might not have and neither France this time round. I know England has two in Trent Hodgkison and Chris Heighington.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby AXLstockholm » Sun, 19 Nov 2017, 03:05

I find it hilarious people thinking Fiji/Tonga beating New Zealand is regarded as an "upset".

Fiji and Tonga are filled with Australian-born and bred players who grew up playing rugby league through the same development pathways as the Australian and New Zealand players. Some of these players even played for Australia, New Zealand and New South Wales and will continue to do so. I mean, Jason Taumalolo was photographed in a New Zealand jersey as a promotion for this "world cup" a few months ago and league fans wonder why the rest of the Australian sporting community laughs at this tournament's credibility.

The crowd at Wellington looked pretty shocking so this tournament hasn't captured the public's attention.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 19 Nov 2017, 03:21

The result is good for the look of the tournament but it's still not going to change the fact that come next year many of these players are going to be putting their hand up for Australian and New Zealand jersey. It's actually not going to surprise me after this if NZ implements a zero tolerance rule in terms of representing the Kiwis, because they're the ones who have clearly suffered the most from having players defect to other nations. The other issue is State of Origin, as long as that's the pinnacle you're going to have this issue of nation swapping. If I was the ARL or NZRL I'd make the ultimatum that you either commit to the jersey long term or you don't.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby 4N » Sun, 19 Nov 2017, 14:26

Next year there is an international cup with Lebanon, Tonga, PNG and Samoa. I don't think the emerging nations are going anywhere. This has been a big step forward for the development of international RL.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby AXLstockholm » Sun, 19 Nov 2017, 23:48

4N wrote:Next year there is an international cup with Lebanon, Tonga, PNG and Samoa. I don't think the emerging nations are going anywhere. This has been a big step forward for the development of international RL.

An international cup most likely played in the Sydney suburbia involving teams 95% represented by domestic NRL players born and living in Sydney. It cannot be that hard to organise surely.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby MikeN » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 01:41

Having these ex kiwis and aussies play for the smaller countries has been bloody good though. It has made it way more competitive and interesting.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby eal22 » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 05:50

Are the Pacific Island teams in Rugby any better about selecting players born in the islands? With more pacific islanders living in Australia and NZ than in the islands themselves the chances are that these teams will always be dominated by players who have come through Aus/NZ systems.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby 4N » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 12:38

eal22 wrote:Are the Pacific Island teams in Rugby any better about selecting players born in the islands? With more pacific islanders living in Australia and NZ than in the islands themselves the chances are that these teams will always be dominated by players who have come through Aus/NZ systems.


It's pretty similar in both codes. Look at how many Kiwis in the Samoan RU team.

Plus RL is in its infancy in places like Tonga and Lebanon. Give them time to develop homegrown players. In Lebanon's case I am sure they will.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby bolleje » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 14:06

4N wrote:Next year there is an international cup with Lebanon, Tonga, PNG and Samoa. I don't think the emerging nations are going anywhere. This has been a big step forward for the development of international RL.


Any source for this? Is this one of the 'continental' cups they want to start organizing? A European Championship could probably work too, although England would be an almost guaranteed winner. Battle for the other finalist would be interesting though.

I also find it interesting that Fiji won't be in that international cup you mention. Maybe they are going for a Four Nations with England, Australia, New Zealand and Fiji, an International Cup with Lebanon, Tonga, PNG and Samoa, an American Cup with USA, Canada and Jamaica and a European Championship with France, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Italy and maybe Spain, Serbia and Russia.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby 4N » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 14:46

It is in fact a series of tests rather than a cup comp. https://tickets.nrl.com/pacifictest

Two further nations TBC. Should be Fiji and someone else.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby eal22 » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 16:05

Dirty tactics by the IRB in supporting a rival rebel governing body of Rugby League. You can bet your bottom dollar the IRB is sending some money and support under the table to the rebel World Rugby League.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/rugb ... z881n.html

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby 4N » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 16:10

I'd say they're starting to view RL as more of an expansion threat now.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby eal22 » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 16:26

4N wrote:I'd say they're starting to view RL as more of an expansion threat now.


Rugby Union has long tried to sell Rugby League as a sub-sport of Rugby. Just look at the tactics used in the UAE where the Rugby Union board managed to UAE Rugby League declared illegal and its founder deported.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby sammo » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 17:47

eal22 wrote:
4N wrote:I'd say they're starting to view RL as more of an expansion threat now.


Rugby Union has long tried to sell Rugby League as a sub-sport of Rugby. Just look at the tactics used in the UAE where the Rugby Union board managed to UAE Rugby League declared illegal and its founder deported.


Not the entire story. It is illegal to run a national governing body in UEA without being a national, hence the deportation. In the eyes of the UAE government all rugby comes under one umbrella, and therefore he was illegally running an illegal organisation, hence deportation. Most of these stories about the victimisation of RL are exaggerated in some way.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 18:51

4N wrote:I'd say they're starting to view RL as more of an expansion threat now.


I doubt it.

Have you ever even heard of this body they're not allowed in?

And why would World Rugby raise this issue rather than the rival governing body themselves? This link suggests it was Word Rugby League that applied to this body, not the RLIF anyway!: http://www.worldrugbyleague.org/news.html

More reds under the bed thinking from league administrators for me. To have such a small tent and still not be able to keep everyone inside and pissing out is quite an achievement really.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 18:54

“SportAccord / GAISF calls for national governing bodies (NGBs) to be recognized by their own national Highest Sports Authorities (Olympic Committees or Ministry).

“There are numerous cases where groups of people claim that they have Federations or Associations but in practice, they are not recognized by anyone.

“In these cases people have to understand that recognition by the National Highest Sporting Authorities is the most important issue. In order to be recognized Rugby League must have 40 recognized NGBs and we all know that it hasn’t.


From the article.

But its easier and gets more column inches to blame the posh union bastards keeping the working classes down and preventing the glorious worldwide revolution.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby eal22 » Mon, 20 Nov 2017, 18:58

SportAccord has been around for quite some time it seems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_As ... ederations

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 00:45

I know it sucks, I know they have just as much right to use the word 'rugby' but they making things more difficult for themselves by continuing to cling onto it. I think something like 'Hudders' is an appropriate name to use given Huddersfield is were the game originated. Yes, it's a pain in the arse, yes it will take years for it to catch on, but it's going to benefit them in the long run.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby eal22 » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 02:11

thatrugbyguy wrote:I know it sucks, I know they have just as much right to use the word 'rugby' but they making things more difficult for themselves by continuing to cling onto it. I think something like 'Hudders' is an appropriate name to use given Huddersfield is were the game originated. Yes, it's a pain in the arse, yes it will take years for it to catch on, but it's going to benefit them in the long run.


Its only a problem because some groups dishonestly try to sell Rugby League as a sub-code of Rugby Union. Rugby League will never give up its name.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 02:29

4N wrote:I'd say they're starting to view RL as more of an expansion threat now.


Beware of the author. He's a known propagandist when it comes to all things League.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 04:59

eal22 wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:I know it sucks, I know they have just as much right to use the word 'rugby' but they making things more difficult for themselves by continuing to cling onto it. I think something like 'Hudders' is an appropriate name to use given Huddersfield is were the game originated. Yes, it's a pain in the arse, yes it will take years for it to catch on, but it's going to benefit them in the long run.


Its only a problem because some groups dishonestly try to sell Rugby League as a sub-code of Rugby Union. Rugby League will never give up its name.


I'm not saying it's right they give up the name, as I said they have as much right to use it as rugby does, but from a pure marketing perspective Rugby has a strangle hold of the name. They obviously can't just switch to just 'League', so another name should be considered IMO. It would be a very big change, but it would be far more beneficial in the long term. It will end up being one of these situations like in football where it's called soccer in a handful of nations, and football everywhere else. The game is only ever going to be in rugby's shadow as long as it uses the same name.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby AXLstockholm » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 05:48

As much as PNG, Tonga and Fiji are the "feel good" stories of this world cup the pretty bad crowds provide an accurate reflection of the general interest in this tournament. Wellington and Melbourne were a third full for the quarter finals shows even the league fans are indifferent to these games.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby eal22 » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 15:44

AXLstockholm wrote:As much as PNG, Tonga and Fiji are the "feel good" stories of this world cup the pretty bad crowds provide an accurate reflection of the general interest in this tournament. Wellington and Melbourne were a third full for the quarter finals shows even the league fans are indifferent to these games.

NRLs
The crowds have been a bit disappointing but the tournament organisers haven't done a great job selling this tournament. The crowds at the previous World Cup in the UK were quite good. One issue with this tournament is that the games have only been played in cities willing to bid for them, and not necessarily the heartlands of RL support in Australia particularly. On the other hand, it is encouraging for the code that cities are willing to put up money to host games, 20 years ago this would not have been the scenario.

The crowds in NZ were mixed, NZ v Scotland drew pretty well in Christchurch which is not a RL town at all, the game against Tonga was packed out by Tongan fans, but the Wellington QF crowd was pathetic. RL in NZ is going through a tough time at the moment with both the NRLs NZ Warriors and the national team Kiwis being basket cases.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby JamesWales » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 17:20

Fair play to the RL world cup - It has been better than I though, and critically, it's been more competitive.

I wouldn't blame the pacific islands for shifting focus to League - World Rugby needs to seriously start redistributing funds better or Union will play second fiddle.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby eal22 » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 20:45

JamesWales wrote:Fair play to the RL world cup - It has been better than I though, and critically, it's been more competitive.

I wouldn't blame the pacific islands for shifting focus to League - World Rugby needs to seriously start redistributing funds better or Union will play second fiddle.


Rugby League has a huge opportunity to dominate the Rugby rivalry in the Pacific and they know it. The RL scene in Fiji is exploding and you can bet it will in Tonga after this World Cup.

On another note, interesting to see a Wales age-group team (under-16 I think) defeat their English counterparts. Must be some RL talent coming through Wales.

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