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2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Thomas » Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 10:25

I just listened and I am like seriously??

To paraphrase Churchill: Winners have the power to manipulate the past to attain their present-day goals. that is how I see it. the present regime is trying to close the circle for their own purposes across the game.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Wed, 02 Oct 2019, 04:30

Pre-news confirmed about the november's Oceania Cup.
Six teams: NZ Development, Australia A, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Papua Guinea.
Four days of play: 18, 22 (?), 26 (?), 30 november

It should be a World Cup qualifier, even if the article doesn't say almost anything about
http://www.oceaniarugby.com/pageitem.as ... tyID=66726

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby johnbirch » Wed, 02 Oct 2019, 19:18

Armchair Fan wrote:In this radio interview Katie Sadleir claims they opted for this choice of new branding because it was going to make the bigger impact:
https://www.ivoox.com/world-rugby-the-f ... 505_1.html

It infuriated me how they try to sell the idea that *this tournament* is conceived on par with *the other one*. We all know it's not true. But by conceding interviews to mainstream media they rarely face the hard questions and can just spread their propaganda.
I wonder if this means that success in the [women's] world cup would now be used to determine the number of places on Council, like success in the men's does?

If not then the "equality" really counts for nothing.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Thu, 03 Oct 2019, 01:37

johnbirch wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:In this radio interview Katie Sadleir claims they opted for this choice of new branding because it was going to make the bigger impact:
https://www.ivoox.com/world-rugby-the-f ... 505_1.html

It infuriated me how they try to sell the idea that *this tournament* is conceived on par with *the other one*. We all know it's not true. But by conceding interviews to mainstream media they rarely face the hard questions and can just spread their propaganda.
I wonder if this means that success in the [women's] world cup would now be used to determine the number of places on Council, like success in the men's does?

If not then the "equality" really counts for nothing.


If that's the case there's a practical problem here.

As someone who has invested a fair amount of time with women's football in Mexico I'm far too familiar with these obstacles, whether it's cultural, financial, or having to deal with an air of doubt and pessimism everywhere. Only finally do we have a women's soccer league, and even still there are issues and complaints that need to be ironed out (from both the Mexican public and outsiders). It's even more infuriating when some outsider writes a puff piece and has no insight on the topicwhatsoever (this tends to be an issue with feminists from more developed countries critiquing poorer ones but let's not go there).

In the end, the reason Liga MX Femenil is a thing is because women's football is now profitable. Most people know that men's/women's football are not equal (unless you're Billie King and you suggest something as asinine as the USWNT forming their own association, which FIFA would kill immediately) but there is a lot of money and clout in the women's game. Players like Alex Morgan, etc are idols and I can see women's football easily overtaking many other sports in popularity (like cricket). Heck, the WWC might be bigger than the RWC.

Rugby has only been finding its footing in the last 20 years globally because the sport decided that the old Anglo-Saxon Celtic farts running the show were messing with its potential. Japan has emerged as a potential market, Europe and Latin America may be on the horizon. Even Africa isn't crazy given the middle class boom there.

There are enough issues with the men's game as it is and unfortunately the priority will be there. I'm curious with the financials of women's rugby, and how "valuable" it is to WR. Will nations like Georgia, Argentina, the PIs, etc be limited in power because they aren't growing women's rugby? Do Canada, the USA, and Spain deserve more power because so? I think the answer will be determined by whether WR sees how beneficial each route is.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 04:29

How is Liga MX Femenil profitable? With the NWSL, without the subsidization from Canada Soccer, FMF, and USSF the NWSL would not exist. It's most definitely not profitable.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Sun, 06 Oct 2019, 19:56

TheStroBro wrote:How is Liga MX Femenil profitable? With the NWSL, without the subsidization from Canada Soccer, FMF, and USSF the NWSL would not exist. It's most definitely not profitable.


It's not (and I think you misread my comment). It's essentially a pet project by the Liga MX to develop women's football, make the Mexico women's side better (and more profitable, because pocho money), and (I assume) host the Women's World Cup in the future (2027?). Also, I think FMF wants to host the U-20/U-17 WWC which would be wise (Mexico's youth women's sides are great). I was more talking about the cultural barriers about getting it started, and by extension the financial ones (machismo can't die sooner enough). But the fact that it's a priority tells me that FMF has bigger plans for women's football, and they most certainly want to host some tournaments.

In the past, there was an attempt for a more independent women's league which mostly failed. They tried to bring big money investors, but the entire set-up was bush league and by 2009 I believe only Puebla had a serious women's side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liga_Mexi ... ol_Femenil

Prior to 2017, for most women's footballers after college you either hoped to play to whatever lower league side in the USA/Europe or play for what was basically a pub league, hell might as well have been a rec league.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that women's football is big (on the international stage) so it makes sense for countries to invest in it, and increase their bargaining power with FIFA. I don't think we have that with rugby, which makes the whole thing of 'gender-neutral' cups so bizzare.

EDIT: bloody wikipedia links glitching out on me

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 08 Oct 2019, 08:48

Return_of_BG_97 wrote:
If that's the case there's a practical problem here.

As someone who has invested a fair amount of time with women's football in Mexico I'm far too familiar with these obstacles, whether it's cultural, financial, or having to deal with an air of doubt and pessimism everywhere. Only finally do we have a women's soccer league, and even still there are issues and complaints that need to be ironed out (from both the Mexican public and outsiders). It's even more infuriating when some outsider writes a puff piece and has no insight on the topicwhatsoever (this tends to be an issue with feminists from more developed countries critiquing poorer ones but let's not go there).

In the end, the reason Liga MX Femenil is a thing is because women's football is now profitable. Most people know that men's/women's football are not equal (unless you're Billie King and you suggest something as asinine as the USWNT forming their own association, which FIFA would kill immediately) but there is a lot of money and clout in the women's game. Players like Alex Morgan, etc are idols and I can see women's football easily overtaking many other sports in popularity (like cricket). Heck, the WWC might be bigger than the RWC.

Rugby has only been finding its footing in the last 20 years globally because the sport decided that the old Anglo-Saxon Celtic farts running the show were messing with its potential. Japan has emerged as a potential market, Europe and Latin America may be on the horizon. Even Africa isn't crazy given the middle class boom there.

There are enough issues with the men's game as it is and unfortunately the priority will be there. I'm curious with the financials of women's rugby, and how "valuable" it is to WR. Will nations like Georgia, Argentina, the PIs, etc be limited in power because they aren't growing women's rugby? Do Canada, the USA, and Spain deserve more power because so? I think the answer will be determined by whether WR sees how beneficial each route is.


Here's the problem I have with the way WR have gone about this. They've essentially said that women are both important and unimportant at the same time. On one hand they are doing promotion campaigns that specifically mention women, whilst at the same time dropping the world Women from their own world cup. The problem is by saying the Rugby World Cup brand is the more valuable and attaching the Women's WC to that name, they are more or less saying without even realising it that the word 'Woman' itself has no commercial value. In other words, the Women are not good enough to have a world cup that proudly displays who it is who's playing, it's relying entirely on the Men to get them in the spotlight. It is without doubt the most 19th Century form of thinking I've ever seen from an organisation. Decades after women demanded they be allowed to forge their own path in life, World Rugby has more or less said they women's game has no value unless it's attached to the men's. That is a step backwards by any measure.

And unfortunately for the girls they are the ones who are going to suffer. The reality is most people barely even know the women's world cup exists, and all it's going to do is get lost amongst the news cycle for the mens tournament.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Wed, 09 Oct 2019, 02:13

thatrugbyguy wrote:
Return_of_BG_97 wrote:
If that's the case there's a practical problem here.

As someone who has invested a fair amount of time with women's football in Mexico I'm far too familiar with these obstacles, whether it's cultural, financial, or having to deal with an air of doubt and pessimism everywhere. Only finally do we have a women's soccer league, and even still there are issues and complaints that need to be ironed out (from both the Mexican public and outsiders). It's even more infuriating when some outsider writes a puff piece and has no insight on the topicwhatsoever (this tends to be an issue with feminists from more developed countries critiquing poorer ones but let's not go there).

In the end, the reason Liga MX Femenil is a thing is because women's football is now profitable. Most people know that men's/women's football are not equal (unless you're Billie King and you suggest something as asinine as the USWNT forming their own association, which FIFA would kill immediately) but there is a lot of money and clout in the women's game. Players like Alex Morgan, etc are idols and I can see women's football easily overtaking many other sports in popularity (like cricket). Heck, the WWC might be bigger than the RWC.

Rugby has only been finding its footing in the last 20 years globally because the sport decided that the old Anglo-Saxon Celtic farts running the show were messing with its potential. Japan has emerged as a potential market, Europe and Latin America may be on the horizon. Even Africa isn't crazy given the middle class boom there.

There are enough issues with the men's game as it is and unfortunately the priority will be there. I'm curious with the financials of women's rugby, and how "valuable" it is to WR. Will nations like Georgia, Argentina, the PIs, etc be limited in power because they aren't growing women's rugby? Do Canada, the USA, and Spain deserve more power because so? I think the answer will be determined by whether WR sees how beneficial each route is.


Here's the problem I have with the way WR have gone about this. They've essentially said that women are both important and unimportant at the same time. On one hand they are doing promotion campaigns that specifically mention women, whilst at the same time dropping the world Women from their own world cup. The problem is by saying the Rugby World Cup brand is the more valuable and attaching the Women's WC to that name, they are more or less saying without even realising it that the word 'Woman' itself has no commercial value. In other words, the Women are not good enough to have a world cup that proudly displays who it is who's playing, it's relying entirely on the Men to get them in the spotlight. It is without doubt the most 19th Century form of thinking I've ever seen from an organisation. Decades after women demanded they be allowed to forge their own path in life, World Rugby has more or less said they women's game has no value unless it's attached to the men's. That is a step backwards by any measure.

And unfortunately for the girls they are the ones who are going to suffer. The reality is most people barely even know the women's world cup exists, and all it's going to do is get lost amongst the news cycle for the mens tournament.


The WR organization is still very much run by the old Anglo-Saxon Celtic fossils as it was when it was IRB. The only difference is that they are slowly dying out, but old habits die hard.

Actually now that you think about it this seems like a very cynical attempt at maximizing profit from each source while "caring about equality". The Women's World Cup doesn't need to be "neutral", it [i]is rightfully the women's world cup, not the men's/i].

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