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2027 RWC bids

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby 4N » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 13:56

Raven wrote:As for Argentina´s chances of organising a RWC, here´s a nice article for you (a bit long, but worth the reading): https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... m-14777270


I honestly stopped reading that halfway through, it's just a bunch of complaints. Pretty unprofessional. This from the union who agreed to playing the Springboks before a sparse crowd at literally a crumbling stadium in Washington DC. :lol:

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby olivier » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 14:08

Australia will get this one easy.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 14:10

Raven wrote:
With 2023 happening in France already I doubt they give the 2027 RWC to Spain, or Italy.

I suppose South Africa will bid again, and perhaps US regardless of the events happening on previous or subsequent years and the NFL... As for Argentina´s chances of organising a RWC, here´s a nice article for you (a bit long, but worth the reading): https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... m-14777270


Still an interesting read. But this got me mad
"“Then when I had the match managers’ sheet it was all in Spanish. I said to them ‘I’ll have the English version by tea time, will I? They looked at me stupid, but I had it.’". I assume Argentina gets one in Spanish in Wales, right? If not he shouldn't ask for this things, but learn Spanish or hire somebody who speaks the language instead.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 14:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Blurandski » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 14:11

Aus/CanUS 2027 & 2031 are almost certain IMO, after that I could see 2035 easily being Italy or Iberia.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 14:16

4N wrote:Why? They got the Euro Cup final before Italy. It's closer for old 5N fans (French especially - see Top 14 final in Barcelona) and honestly I don't think rugby is too far behind popularity-wise compared to Italy.

But 2027 won't happen after France 2023. Maybe 2031, though I think the push will be on for USA at that point.

Hosting FIFA WC-RWC-Olympics in consecutive years makes the RWC an afterthought btw. I will need a more comprehensive argument against that than it could be "pretty sweet."


3 consecutive years of high amounts of tourism dollars would be a pretty easy argument.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby 4N » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 14:30

thatrugbyguy wrote:
4N wrote:Why? They got the Euro Cup final before Italy. It's closer for old 5N fans (French especially - see Top 14 final in Barcelona) and honestly I don't think rugby is too far behind popularity-wise compared to Italy.

But 2027 won't happen after France 2023. Maybe 2031, though I think the push will be on for USA at that point.

Hosting FIFA WC-RWC-Olympics in consecutive years makes the RWC an afterthought btw. I will need a more comprehensive argument against that than it could be "pretty sweet."


3 consecutive years of high amounts of tourism dollars would be a pretty easy argument.


You think the RWC would add significantly to US tourism? They will probably make as much or more from the 2025 Confederations Cup.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 14:49

Given the proximity to Canada and Argentina I could easily see a US World Cup generating the biggest number of overseas fans out of all previous tournaments. Plenty of Europeans would make the trip too. I think 3 years of big tourism is an easy argument in favour of hosting RWC between FIFA WC and the Olympic Games.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Blurandski » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 15:02

4N wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:
4N wrote:Why? They got the Euro Cup final before Italy. It's closer for old 5N fans (French especially - see Top 14 final in Barcelona) and honestly I don't think rugby is too far behind popularity-wise compared to Italy.

But 2027 won't happen after France 2023. Maybe 2031, though I think the push will be on for USA at that point.

Hosting FIFA WC-RWC-Olympics in consecutive years makes the RWC an afterthought btw. I will need a more comprehensive argument against that than it could be "pretty sweet."


3 consecutive years of high amounts of tourism dollars would be a pretty easy argument.


You think the RWC would add significantly to US tourism? They will probably make as much or more from the 2025 Confederations Cup.


Nah, the RWC would bring significantly more than the Confederations Cup. There would be somewhere in the region of 3-4 million tickets available, and in terms of attendance per match the RWC often equals or surpasses the FWC.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby 4N » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 15:23

That's not tourism, and you might be surprised by the number of resident expats from rugby countries in the US. Even though they are a small percentage of 330 million, they are still present in big numbers compared to rugby countries. Plus some casual Irish-American support for Ireland, resident Samoans and Tongans cheering for their respective teams etc.

I don't have figures but am pretty sure more fans would fly to the US for CC than RWC. Trying to remember how many went to NZ in 2011 - less than 50k I think. With Australia a short flight away.

In fact, I am almost certain the 2025 CC would draw more international visitors than the RWC.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby jservuk » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 19:38

4N wrote:That's not tourism, and you might be surprised by the number of resident expats from rugby countries in the US. Even though they are a small percentage of 330 million, they are still present in big numbers compared to rugby countries. Plus some casual Irish-American support for Ireland, resident Samoans and Tongans cheering for their respective teams etc.

I don't have figures but am pretty sure more fans would fly to the US for CC than RWC. Trying to remember how many went to NZ in 2011 - less than 50k I think. With Australia a short flight away.

In fact, I am almost certain the 2025 CC would draw more international visitors than the RWC.


Whilst I agree with you that RWC effect on tourism numbers wouldn't be earth shattering, we'll need to find a different straw man for the argument than the Confeds Cup, as I hear that FIFA intends to cease that in favour of World CLub Cup or bi-annual WC or something. It's a pity, I like the idea of the CC as it's a tangible signal to the start of the year countdown .... and gives the T2 football nations a chance to play against T1 on a big stage. We will never see in something similar in RU.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby jservuk » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 19:43

thatrugbyguy wrote:Given the proximity to Canada and Argentina I could easily see a US World Cup generating the biggest number of overseas fans out of all previous tournaments. Plenty of Europeans would make the trip too. I think 3 years of big tourism is an easy argument in favour of hosting RWC between FIFA WC and the Olympic Games.


This would be true if Canada and Arg were huge Rubgy nations, but Canada is T2/T3, and Argentina is still a football dominated country and the distance between Beunos Aires and Texas is ~8,500km compared to ~3,500km London to New York.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby carbonero » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 19:53

4N wrote:
Raven wrote:As for Argentina´s chances of organising a RWC, here´s a nice article for you (a bit long, but worth the reading): https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... m-14777270


I honestly stopped reading that halfway through, it's just a bunch of complaints. Pretty unprofessional. This from the union who agreed to playing the Springboks before a sparse crowd at literally a crumbling stadium in Washington DC. :lol:

Half of the issues he mentions have to do with not wanting to stay one week in Santa Fe. I understand his quibbles about San Juan but Santa Fe is twice the size of fucking Cardiff.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 20:59

2027 is due for a Southern Hemisphere host.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Blurandski » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 21:10

NaBUru38 wrote:2027 is due for a Southern Hemisphere host.


In rugby terms Japan is effectively a SH team though.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 21:34

You may mean tier 2, but not Southern Hemisphere.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Immenso » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 21:47

thatrugbyguy wrote:I don't see why the FIFA world cup would mean RWC can't be held in the US. Australia hosted the Olympics and the RWC in a 3 years period, Japan are hosting the same two events within 12 months of each other. If anything 2027 is the right moment for the US, because realistically Australia is the only other option.


Why do you think realistically Australia is the only other option?

I'd say South Africa would be favourites for 2027.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Blurandski » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 21:48

NaBUru38 wrote:You may mean tier 2, but not Southern Hemisphere.


In rugby terms it is though, it plays in the primary SH club competition and receives touring sides in June, while touring the NH in November. It is functionally part of the SH grouping of countries.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Immenso » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 21:51

4N wrote:That's not tourism, and you might be surprised by the number of resident expats from rugby countries in the US. Even though they are a small percentage of 330 million, they are still present in big numbers compared to rugby countries. Plus some casual Irish-American support for Ireland, resident Samoans and Tongans cheering for their respective teams etc.

I don't have figures but am pretty sure more fans would fly to the US for CC than RWC. Trying to remember how many went to NZ in 2011 - less than 50k I think. With Australia a short flight away.

In fact, I am almost certain the 2025 CC would draw more international visitors than the RWC.

Here are the numbers:

133,200 visitors came to New Zealand for the RWC

. Out of the total 785,600 visitors who came to New Zealand during the RWC time period,
133,200 of these came for the RWC.
. Most of the RWC visitors were from RWC participant countries such as Australia (55,500), France (11,500), South Africa (8,600), England (7,000), the USA (5,400), Ireland (4,100), Argentina (3,000) and Japan (2,800).


There were also large numbers of RWC visitors from non-participating countries, for
example, from Singapore (2,200) and Hong Kong (1,600).

From:
http://www.mbie.govt.nz/publications-re ... ective.pdf

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Immenso » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 21:57

I'm surprised that Ireland are still not interested in bidding for the U20 JWC (it's possible to 'win' this bid almost uncontested).

Which indictates to me that they've pretty much given up at this stage on hosting the big one.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby The Do » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 22:15

I feel Australia would be a good choice for 2027. The three biggest rectangular stadiums in Sydney, Homebush (the Olympic Stadium 82,000) and Allianz Stadium ( Sydney Football Stadium 42,000) are both getting massive upgrades in next couple of years and Parramatta Stadium has been torn down and the rebuild will be finished next year for a 30,000 stadium. Melbourne has the MCG (100,000), Marvel Stadium ( 60,000) both are oval and AAMI Park (30,000) rectangular. Townsville is building a new 30,000 stadium as we speak. Perth just opened a new 60,000 seat stadium this year. Newcastle has a 30,000 rectangular stadium.
It makes sense.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Grayday88 » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 22:35

Immenso wrote:I'm surprised that Ireland are still not interested in bidding for the U20 JWC (it's possible to 'win' this bid almost uncontested).

Which indictates to me that they've pretty much given up at this stage on hosting the big one.

Ireland did host the under 19 in the greater Belfast area in 2007 which was very successful . I see no reason why Ireland has not applied to host the u20

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby 4N » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 22:36

Immenso wrote:
4N wrote:That's not tourism, and you might be surprised by the number of resident expats from rugby countries in the US. Even though they are a small percentage of 330 million, they are still present in big numbers compared to rugby countries. Plus some casual Irish-American support for Ireland, resident Samoans and Tongans cheering for their respective teams etc.

I don't have figures but am pretty sure more fans would fly to the US for CC than RWC. Trying to remember how many went to NZ in 2011 - less than 50k I think. With Australia a short flight away.

In fact, I am almost certain the 2025 CC would draw more international visitors than the RWC.

Here are the numbers:

133,200 visitors came to New Zealand for the RWC

. Out of the total 785,600 visitors who came to New Zealand during the RWC time period,
133,200 of these came for the RWC.
. Most of the RWC visitors were from RWC participant countries such as Australia (55,500), France (11,500), South Africa (8,600), England (7,000), the USA (5,400), Ireland (4,100), Argentina (3,000) and Japan (2,800).


There were also large numbers of RWC visitors from non-participating countries, for
example, from Singapore (2,200) and Hong Kong (1,600).

From:
http://www.mbie.govt.nz/publications-re ... ective.pdf


Thanks. So minus Australia (also home to many Kiwis and Brits) you are looking at about 50k. But overall it's more than I thought.

Given the FIFA WC is touted as drawing a million fans from abroad, I wonder what the Confed Cup typically brings in.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 14 Jun 2018, 22:54

jservuk wrote:This would be true if Canada and Arg were huge Rubgy nations, but Canada is T2/T3, and Argentina is still a football dominated country and the distance between Beunos Aires and Texas is ~8,500km compared to ~3,500km London to New York.


I don't see any reason why you couldn't get 10-15,000 Canadians making the trip across the border if Canada's games are played in Seattle, Chicago or New York, and I don't know what football has to do with Argentina, they've always had large numbers of supporters follow them at the Rugby World Cup.

Immenso wrote:
Why do you think realistically Australia is the only other option?

I'd say South Africa would be favourites for 2027.


If Australia were to be up against South Africa for hosting I can't see anyway how South Africa gets it. All of our stadium infrastructure has been or is currently being updated and we'll have the local support to fill the stadiums. Last time it was here in 2003 it was a massive success. It would be an even bigger success in 2027 when the competitiveness of the tournament will be far higher.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 15 Jun 2018, 06:28

jservuk wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:Given the proximity to Canada and Argentina I could easily see a US World Cup generating the biggest number of overseas fans out of all previous tournaments. Plenty of Europeans would make the trip too. I think 3 years of big tourism is an easy argument in favour of hosting RWC between FIFA WC and the Olympic Games.


This would be true if Canada and Arg were huge Rubgy nations, but Canada is T2/T3, and Argentina is still a football dominated country and the distance between Beunos Aires and Texas is ~8,500km compared to ~3,500km London to New York.


Not only is Buenos Aires - San Francisco (7s World Cup) even farer away than Buenos Aires - Auckland, but the real dealbreaker is the very strict visa-policy in the USA. As an Argentinian you are not even allowed to have a fly-over with a change of flights in the USA without a visa. To get a tourist visa, you need to actually go the US embassy and go through a personal interview. I doubt a lot of people will do that.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 15 Jun 2018, 15:56

Rich Argentines travel to Miami the whole time. Getting a visa is boring, but tourists do it.

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