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Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

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6
10%
Against
54
90%
 
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 22:53

Blurandski wrote:If rugby did become popular all around the world it doesn't mean that small nations would fade away. Uruguay a nation of 3.5m has come 4th, 12th, 5th at the past 3 Fifa WCs. Netherlands have come 7th, 4th, DNQ, 11th, 2nd, 3rd, DNQ.

Once a sport gets past a certain number of participants in a country, performances tend to fall off for it becomes much harder to effectively scout and develop people.

Eh, not necessarily, you just need a better scouting and development apparatus. If you look at the Best teams, how much development is actually done by the Federation ? Not a whole lot. It's the professional teams or University system that end up doing all of the development when you have a large economy to support those structures provided the sport is actually popular.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Bolaroid » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 06:58

Back in the news, this time ring-fenced 12 Nations (6N + RC + Japan & Fiji):

Six Nations have reportedly held talks with unions in the southern hemisphere to create a new world championship series.

World Rugby’s proposed 12-team Nations Championship – a project they claimed they had £6.1billion in funding for a 12-year competition running over three World Cup cycles – was scrapped earlier this year due to a lack of a buy-in from the Six Nations countries who refused to accept the promotion and relegation aspects to the idea.

However, it has now emerged that the ten leading unions met up during the recent World Cup in Japan to tease out the possibility of creating a more structured Test calendar that would culminate in a final series every two or four years.

With Japan 2019 generating record revenues and television viewing figures, the UK Daily Mail have claimed union representatives held discussions in the hope of coming up with a formula that would ensure the leading teams would play each other more often.

For instance, in the current cycle of fixtures, England had only played New Zealand once in five years prior to last month’s World Cup semi-final meeting in Yokohama.

While World Rugby’s proposal was ultimately binned, with concerns of player welfare also a factor due to the number of games proposed, a less demanding schedule that would not involve every country playing each other every other season could be the key to establishing a new championship series.

Another reported crucial difference from the scrapped World Rugby plan is that the new series would be ring-fenced by restricting it to only the ten Six Nations and Rugby Championship countries, along with Fiji and Japan.

The future of the Japanese at Test level has become critical following their progress to a first-ever World Cup quarter-final. World Cup success eventually convinced the Tri-Nations to invite Argentina into their fold and create the Rugby Championship.

Now, preliminary discussions have taken place in the southern hemisphere about the possibility of inviting in Japan and Fiji, although it has also been reported that the Japanese could secure an invite to a seven-team Six Nations.

Monitoring these developments in the wings are CVC Capital Partners, the private equity firm whose talks with Six Nations were a contributory factor in that organisation not going along with World Rugby’s Nations Championship.

They have apparently agreed a still-to-be-announced £300million deal to buy 15 per cent stake in the Six Nations and are said to be in support of recent discussions in Japan to potentially establish a new world series.

World Rugby, though, would ultimately be required to give their blessing to any new tournament.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 07:16

It would be really interesting to find out, where this inferiority complex, that you need to create closed shops in a sport with national teams comes from. :roll:
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby rey200 » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 08:15

Best thing is they're gonna tap their shoulders for including two nations more.
Ceterum censeo Sex Nationes esse augendas.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 08:20

RugbyLiebe wrote:It would be really interesting to find out, where this inferiority complex, that you need to create closed shops in a sport with national teams comes from. :roll:


It's frustrating. The article talks about it running over a period of 2 or even 4 years. Which to me suggests there's plenty of room to boost involvement. This could be a structure that could take advantage of the current Test windows over a number of years to really develop the game across a far broader cross section. It could involve as many as 24 teams across four 'pools'. Three from the NH and 3 from the SH. You could incorporate inter-pool games etc. Lots of potential.

They wouldn't have to incorporate the 6Ns/RC (which still should include both Japan and Fiji). In fact, the current regional structures could all still be maintained with the goal of providing access. The idea behind giving t2 teams more exposure would be to help increase the standards. A similar exercise could be achieved via this path. Expand the ENC to 2x4 pools. Maintain the ARC, merge Asia and the Pacific into the APRC and Africa. All featuring teams that would also play in the top league allowing them to develop alongside them by gaining exposure to their increasing standard.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 08:34

I think that this is the 6 Nations strategy to prevent Pichot. Classical British upper-class strategy. Keep your shop closed, but invite some others, who might become dangerous, to silence them. That's exactly what this looks like.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 09:25

It's a friendly reminder to World Rugby that they can do exactly the same on their own and getting a bigger slice of the cake.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 08 Nov 2019, 10:47

There is literally no point in ring fencing this idea if it's being played over a 2-3 year period.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 10 Nov 2019, 02:47

thatrugbyguy wrote:There is literally no point in ring fencing this idea if it's being played over a 2-3 year period.


The only way I'd being willing to accept this is if all the nations involved in this structure were to forego any share of the funding dispensed by WR after the RWC. Even then I still believe it would be a mistake to restrict growth by limiting numbers.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 Nov 2019, 03:16

I feel WR would need to find a half solution. Something like the Basketball Euroleague with a combination of licenced core teams and teams that need to qualify every year. If in rugby there are 10 cartel nations+Japan, such model is not suitable for a 12 teams league. Should be 14 or 16.
Last edited by victorsra on Sun, 10 Nov 2019, 05:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 10 Nov 2019, 05:30

victorsra wrote:I feel WR would need to find a half solution. The Basketball Euroleague with a combination of licenced core teams and teams that need to qualify every year. If in rugby there are 10 cartel nations+Japan, such model is not suitable for a 12 teams league. Should be 14 or 16.


That would actually be a a reasonable compromise. A 2nd division could be set up with 8 teams below it playing over the same period who will qualify 4 teams to play off against the non-core 1st Div teams every two years.

The structure would still have a total of 24 teams but it would allay fears of relegation for some while allowing things like the 6 Nations to continue external to it as the would run during the current test windows.

WR could even then have a playoff system in place for the bottom four in the 2nd Div. in order to create that pathway.

The big question then would be value. The WR/Infront deal was ended up being worth £6.2b. Woukd such a structure as the above be worth similar? How much would the success of Japan factor into the calculations?

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 Nov 2019, 20:59

Yes, but I honestly don't think a real world league, like the one proposed, could work split in 3 periods of the year. And with more than 12 teams it would create even more tension with clubs.

For me the SANZAAR countries pyramid system should me used by World Rugby as a central concept. And this would only work if big money involved, to allow Unions to have squads with central contracts. Some people don't like central contracts, but this concept is obviously problematic if players are alternating the whole year between national team and clubs without major funding (Infront-like or more) to unions to really sustain such project.

An interesting model (that would need years in advance to be established) would be:

- World League with 15 teams = 11 core teams with licences of X years without relegation (the compromise with cartel nations + the golden egg duck Japan) + 4 non-core teams, with 1 of them being relegated every year. The World League should run for +- 4 months. The best period for that is August-middle December);
- Players with 6 months contracts with Unions (that must be funded by the League) = 4 months of WL + 1 mont rest month + 1 month pre season)
- Players released to sign (if they want) for clubs/franchises to play the other 6 months (without national teams fixtures in the middle)
- Those contracts in fact could be for the whole year, with Union loaning players to clubs/franchises

So you'd have a half-half season (with Union providing players the rest)
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 11 Nov 2019, 01:46

victorsra wrote:Yes, but I honestly don't think a real world league, like the one proposed, could work split in 3 periods of the year. And with more than 12 teams it would create even more tension with clubs.

For me the SANZAAR countries pyramid system should me used by World Rugby as a central concept. And this would only work if big money involved, to allow Unions to have squads with central contracts. Some people don't like central contracts, but this concept is obviously problematic if players are alternating the whole year between national team and clubs without major funding (Infront-like or more) to unions to really sustain such project.

An interesting model (that would need years in advance to be established) would be:

- World League with 15 teams = 11 core teams with licences of X years without relegation (the compromise with cartel nations + the golden egg duck Japan) + 4 non-core teams, with 1 of them being relegated every year. The World League should run for +- 4 months. The best period for that is August-middle December);
- Players with 6 months contracts with Unions (that must be funded by the League) = 4 months of WL + 1 mont rest month + 1 month pre season)
- Players released to sign (if they want) for clubs/franchises to play the other 6 months (without national teams fixtures in the middle)
- Those contracts in fact could be for the whole year, with Union loaning players to clubs/franchises

So you'd have a half-half season (with Union providing players the rest)


You'll never get the window for that to happen. Part of the purpose of keeping it to the current windows at having the respective championships that are already in place is widening the level of exposure. So you'd have your 15/16 teams in the 1st Div. plus your teams in the 2nd Div. playing in the World League on a regular basis.

Looking at the world rankings at present you'd have the 6Ns/RC team plus Fiji and Japan. Samoa, Tonga, Georgia and Spain in the 1st Div. Then the USA, Uruguay, Romania, Russia, Portugal, Canada, Namibia and HK in the 2nd Div. From there you run the regional championships as well as the current T1 structures. This would then mean round another 12 teams would fit into the overall structure.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Mon, 11 Nov 2019, 12:41

I know. Very unlikely because it demands too much negociation. But a global SH-like split of the season (national teams-clubs) would reduce the daily tension and accomodate interests better.
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