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Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

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Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Rugga » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 09:28

Just wondering can you see this happening in each of your different respective tier 2 and tier 3 nations?
Something like this has happened before with test cricket and 20 over cricket.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 09:31

No.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 09:45

Rugga wrote:Just wondering can you see this happening in each of your different respective tier 2 and tier 3 nations?
Something like this has happened before with test cricket and 20 over cricket.


Not in its current guise. While the event nature of 7s at present can be fun it limits its ability to be a pass participation sport and certainly limits its commercial appeal. It would need to run for longer than just 14 mins. There was a group looking to do something with it in the US. The same group that runs the Vegas 7s Leg and the CRC 7s.

They were trying to get the game to span an hour using 4x12 minute quarters. They even ran a proof of concept game 4 years back which I managed to get a copy of at the time. It got real sloppy by the third quarter. The fitness requirements for 7s even with an expanded roster takes its toll. Not saying something along those lines couldn't be done. A 4x7 minutes with men's and women's might work better but its unlikely we'll ever know.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 09:50

Rugga wrote:Just wondering can you see this happening in each of your different respective tier 2 and tier 3 nations?
Something like this has happened before with test cricket and 20 over cricket.


Yeah, but test cricket is an absolutely insane thing to begin with (cricket itself also is :D ). Matches lasting more than one day? You need to grow up with that kind of thing to not shake your head in continueing disbelief.
A Rugby 7s tournament actually lasts for two days and therefore it will never take over 15s. It is just more casual to watch a game of 15s.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 10:08

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Rugga wrote:Just wondering can you see this happening in each of your different respective tier 2 and tier 3 nations?
Something like this has happened before with test cricket and 20 over cricket.


Yeah, but test cricket is an absolutely insane thing to begin with (cricket itself also is :D ). Matches lasting more than one day? You need to grow up with that kind of thing to not shake your head in continueing disbelief.
A Rugby 7s tournament actually lasts for two days and therefore it will never take over 15s. It is just more casual to watch a game of 15s.


Test Cricket (Test in sport seems to be a very British thing) is certainly something you have to be exposed to for much of your life to appreciate. I liken it to a symphony building to a crescendo. You'd be surprised how often games spanning 5 days come down to the last handful of balls after building the tension bit by bit over the entirety of the game. But T20 is great as well. Much more explosive (only runs for 3 hours) with more concentrated entertainment and you still get the big finishes. Traditionalist hate it.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Canalina » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 11:19

In Italy (are we a bit a T2 nation?) definitively not in a medium future. Sevens here is a very minor version, ignored by players and by fans for most of the year; just during summer it takes some space.
I've already said this in the past: I think that 7s is a game somehow too simple, too straight. I doubt it will never become really popular. But I have to admit that at the Olympics and in San Francisco it resulted more spectacular and enjoyable than my expectation

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby victorsra » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 12:59

Coming from the country that hosted the first Olympics sevens, I must say: men's sevens in Brazil is close to zero popular. No one cares.
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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Rugga » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 13:13

victorsra wrote:Coming from the country that hosted the first Olympics sevens, I must say: men's sevens in Brazil is close to zero popular. No one cares.


That’s surprising. Is sevens bigger than fifteens anywhere?

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 13:46

Maybe Fiji, Kenya and Hong Kong.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby NedRugby » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 14:00

Women's 7s was much bigger than 15s in the Netherlands for a while. In terms of media coverage if not participation. The national team went professional here ahead of most of the major countries and there were a couple of notable wins. It has now slipped back again.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Tobar » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 14:06

Yeah I have to agree with everyone here, 7s isn't taking over anytime soon. 15s is the game you can really get behind and follow. I enjoy the 7s circuit and always want the US to win (I watched the semis and finals this weekend) but it's too quick of a game with much less nuance. This isn't a knock on the players; they are more than just fast guys in open space. But with a game this quick I just can't get into it more than a fun tournament to sit back and watch. It's a terrific tool for getting players into rugby with limited resources.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 22:10

Is there a Union where women’s XVs is bigger than 7s? England? At a real push? There’s only a handful that take both seriously. For men’s, Kenya, Fiji. Canada?

Theoretically there exists a future where we could take 7s more seriously than XV in Russia, but it’s not happening anytime soon. I think Unions are learning to prioritize both. Especially those countries where the Olympics really matter..

Personally I used to despise 7s, but now I enjoy both completely independently of each other. So it’s not an either/or

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby victorsra » Thu, 13 Dec 2018, 23:06

Zhenya_Zima wrote:I think Unions are learning to prioritize both. Especially those countries where the Olympics really matter..

Personally I used to despise 7s, but now I enjoy both completely independently of each other. So it’s not an either/or


That's it. Sevens is fun but that's it.

The main problem about sevens is that club sevens is not a real thing in most countries. Only the national teams. Therefore it is not in rugby fans minds most of the time.

For womens rugby, sevens was the easiest way to make high performance possible in most countries. In Brazil women play only sevens not because they like the idea more. It is because it is really hard for amateur clubs to form and develop squads large enough for 15s. It is possible for countries with strong grassroots.

I've heard people comparing sevens with futsal. It is totaly wrong. Futsal has a autonomous life, from clubs to national teams. Men's Sevens not.
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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby ShyLockNo5 » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 02:19

I think a lot of the top players do enjoy playing sevens - it's just that they are not able to any longer.
I do think we're not seeing the best rugby players playing sevens; they're either development guys or those who will never make it in 15s.
If the top guys could play on the circuit, there would be a lot more interest.
Having said that, and being a big fan of sevens, I don't think sevens will ever overtake 15s. It shouldnt. Even at its most popular in the 1990s, sevens is just an appetiser.
And on that score, it is a good way to get more countries playing the game, while expanding the 15s concept in those countries. After all, while rugby is "for all shapes and sizes", it is obvious rugby sevens is not.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 02:46

victorsra wrote:
Zhenya_Zima wrote:I think Unions are learning to prioritize both. Especially those countries where the Olympics really matter..

Personally I used to despise 7s, but now I enjoy both completely independently of each other. So it’s not an either/or


That's it. Sevens is fun but that's it.

The main problem about sevens is that club sevens is not a real thing in most countries. Only the national teams. Therefore it is not in rugby fans minds most of the time.

For womens rugby, sevens was the easiest way to make high performance possible in most countries. In Brazil women play only sevens not because they like the idea more. It is because it is really hard for amateur clubs to form and develop squads large enough for 15s. It is possible for countries with strong grassroots.

I've heard people comparing sevens with futsal. It is totaly wrong. Futsal has a autonomous life, from clubs to national teams. Men's Sevens not.


We have a very strong Club 7s Championship tournament. Our 7s National Championship Tournament has been going since the late 70s.

One of the reasons I hate our seasonality and possible lack of growth is that depending on where you are, there is no off-season because the weather is good enough. Summer is 7s, the rest is XVs.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Canalina » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 07:39

Tobar wrote:... It's a terrific tool for getting players into rugby with limited resources.

Very agree with this. We used to complain the World Rugby's effort in 7s in spite of XV but I think, even if I have not numbers but just feelings, that 7s made a lot in terms of recruitment in these last years. It planted a rugby seed where there were no enough players to form a XV squad, and maybe those 7s players will eventually attract new friends or even, in a future, their sons to finally form a XV team.
Maybe somewhere 7s was a detriment for XV, but I'm pretty sure that globally it helped and it's helping not only rugby in the whole but also XV.

Speaking of women's rugby, yes, also in Italy 7s is more popular between women players than between men, but it should be just a matter of numbers: in many places there are not enough girls to play XV so they play 7s (a special form of 7s, played just on half of the field; it's a sort of "half-XV"). But all the girls I heard said that their aim and their love is XV

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Grzegorz B. » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 14:43

In Poland, few years ago the entire format of male Extraleague XV was changed to provide better conditions for the development of sevens. There was no special development, and this year even championship of the country in sevens didn't start. Next year Ekstraliga XV returns to its previous format. In women's rugby we have competitions only for sevens.
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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 16:32

Sevens is a great show for the summer. It helps to attract casual players.

But it won't overtake the French Top 14, English Premiership, Six Nations or Rugby Championship.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Warpath » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 22:13

u can only say a code is bigger than another is when it has a huge following in a "bigger" country so count out fiji or samoa or tonga, technically, 15's is bigger in fiji than 7's, they tried to make 7's big in the mid 2000's by having a lot of 7's circuit tournaments but interest died down..mainly cause most ppl know there is no real future in 7's here, as its 15's that puts food on the table..that said, i can honestly say in the rugby code, 7's is bigger than league, maybe not financially but in terms of numbers and following, yeah..i expect a commercialized version of the game after 2020

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby victorsra » Sat, 15 Dec 2018, 00:07

15's is bigger in fiji than 7's, they tried to make 7's big in the mid 2000's by having a lot of 7's circuit tournaments but interest died down..mainly cause most ppl know there is no real future in 7's here, as its 15's that puts food on the table..

Interesting!

that said, i can honestly say in the rugby code, 7's is bigger than league, maybe not financially but in terms of numbers and following, yeah..i expect a commercialized version of the game after 2020

There were reports recently about a international franchises league. But nothing happened.
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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby north walian » Sun, 16 Dec 2018, 19:27

Strangely, some of Canada's most promising young players have gone to the sevens programme.

Don't know if its a permanent thing, but it seems a great waste of talent if it is.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 16 Dec 2018, 19:40

It's the same here. If you are promised some grant and the chance to travel around the world without the risks of going overseas pursuing a pro career, it makes sense.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 17 Dec 2018, 00:16

north walian wrote:Strangely, some of Canada's most promising young players have gone to the sevens programme.

Don't know if its a permanent thing, but it seems a great waste of talent if it is.


With the Arrows entering MLR I'm willing to bet that will change relatively quickly and if a 2nd and even 3rd Canadian team enters in the years to come a trend of the best players sticking with 15s will take over from 7s as an professional option.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby Tobar » Mon, 17 Dec 2018, 13:52

Canalina wrote:
Tobar wrote:... It's a terrific tool for getting players into rugby with limited resources.

Very agree with this. We used to complain the World Rugby's effort in 7s in spite of XV but I think, even if I have not numbers but just feelings, that 7s made a lot in terms of recruitment in these last years. It planted a rugby seed where there were no enough players to form a XV squad, and maybe those 7s players will eventually attract new friends or even, in a future, their sons to finally form a XV team.
Maybe somewhere 7s was a detriment for XV, but I'm pretty sure that globally it helped and it's helping not only rugby in the whole but also XV.


Yes, this. I help coach a high school team and given the lack of resources and assistance it’s very difficult for them to understand all of the specifics of 15s. This is a brand new team with only 1 kid kind of familiar because his dad played. They spent 2-3 months practicing and didn’t even get to contact. But by focusing on 7s which is much simpler they were able to start understanding the game and hope to compete in the spring.

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Re: Rugby Sevens becoming bigger that fifteens?

Postby ShyLockNo5 » Mon, 17 Dec 2018, 15:58

Tobar wrote:
Canalina wrote:
Tobar wrote:... It's a terrific tool for getting players into rugby with limited resources.

Very agree with this. We used to complain the World Rugby's effort in 7s in spite of XV but I think, even if I have not numbers but just feelings, that 7s made a lot in terms of recruitment in these last years. It planted a rugby seed where there were no enough players to form a XV squad, and maybe those 7s players will eventually attract new friends or even, in a future, their sons to finally form a XV team.
Maybe somewhere 7s was a detriment for XV, but I'm pretty sure that globally it helped and it's helping not only rugby in the whole but also XV.


Yes, this. I help coach a high school team and given the lack of resources and assistance it’s very difficult for them to understand all of the specifics of 15s. This is a brand new team with only 1 kid kind of familiar because his dad played. They spent 2-3 months practicing and didn’t even get to contact. But by focusing on 7s which is much simpler they were able to start understanding the game and hope to compete in the spring.


Yes, 7s is an excellent gateway form of the game, especially for schools/countries that dont have the numbers to form 15-a-side teams.

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