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Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 00:31

thatrugbyguy wrote:I don't know much about Reddit, but is there a way to link both the SLAR and MLR threads together? Might be useful to have both North and South American leagues working with each other.


The best you can do is cross post stories onto the thread or add SLAR’s subreddit as a recommended sub, otherwise not much.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 12:11

What about the idea of a match between SLAR champions and MLR champions? This has been given as something concrete by people involved in the early stages of SLAR's project. But no words in the last months...
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Salta » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 13:04

victorsra wrote:What about the idea of a match between SLAR champions and MLR champions? This has been given as something concrete by people involved in the early stages of SLAR's project. But no words in the last months...

Do you think they are at the same level?

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 13:49

Los Ceibos probably
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Salta » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 14:04

victorsra wrote:Los Ceibos probably

No, I mean SLAR > MLR.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 16:08

victorsra wrote:What about the idea of a match between SLAR champions and MLR champions? This has been given as something concrete by people involved in the early stages of SLAR's project. But no words in the last months...


It depends on how rapidly MLR expands and the international calendar. With two distinct seasons MLR and Test Season, I'm not sure where you fit a Champions Cup Structure. Hell I think the model in Europe is awful. MLR will look to expand to max saturation likely over a 20 year period, which is 30 teams for North America. So, I don't think that's on the cards, also, that will be extremely expensive.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 18:16

Salta wrote:
victorsra wrote:Los Ceibos probably

No, I mean SLAR > MLR.


Only Los Ceibos. The others I don't think so. Probably Peñarol would do well there, but Olimpia, Corinthians and Selknam I doubt would above MLR's average. Anyway, Piñeyrua and Danza promised that fixture months ago...
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby 4N » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 19:01

If it’s champion vs champion the lower end of the league wouldn’t matter...

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 19:22

4N wrote:If it’s champion vs champion the lower end of the league wouldn’t matter...


Logistically much simpler. But the cost of the game becomes an issue.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 19:58

Maybe in ther best USA tradition it could be a MLR All Stars vs SLAR All Stars - North America All Stars vs Sudamerica XV
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby argie » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 20:48


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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 21:03

TheStroBro wrote:
victorsra wrote:What about the idea of a match between SLAR champions and MLR champions? This has been given as something concrete by people involved in the early stages of SLAR's project. But no words in the last months...


It depends on how rapidly MLR expands and the international calendar. With two distinct seasons MLR and Test Season, I'm not sure where you fit a Champions Cup Structure. Hell I think the model in Europe is awful. MLR will look to expand to max saturation likely over a 20 year period, which is 30 teams for North America. So, I don't think that's on the cards, also, that will be extremely expensive.


Hear hear! It's a horrible format, I don't understand why any contact sport season has to last 8+ months. The domestic season is fine by itself but adding Champions/Challenge Cup (while highly entertaining) makes it very difficult. If there is just a one-off game for MLR vs SLAR after the end of the season then it can work for now. The national team players may not be available but these teams have quality players who aren't capped by the US/Canada and would be available. I don't know how this can fit in to an actual Champions Cup setting unless it's done once every few years or something, which I think would be pretty cool tbh. But having designated test windows makes it tough without shortening the season.

victorsra wrote:
Salta wrote:
victorsra wrote:Los Ceibos probably

No, I mean SLAR > MLR.


Only Los Ceibos. The others I don't think so. Probably Peñarol would do well there, but Olimpia, Corinthians and Selknam I doubt would above MLR's average. Anyway, Piñeyrua and Danza promised that fixture months ago...


We actually have the best frame of reference for Penarol because of the Uruguay vs Sabercats game 2 years ago (Uruguay won 32-24). But this was before the first season of MLR even took place and Uruguay has improved since then. But assuming that Penarol is essentially the Uruguayan national team plus a few other players then they should at least be competitive.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 21:20

Not sure if it will be the national team, as I guess some of the Uruguayans with MLR contracts will stay in NA, right? Others are in Europe, like Kessler that has just moved to Angoulême (French Pro D2).
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby iul » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 21:21

Tobar wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
victorsra wrote:What about the idea of a match between SLAR champions and MLR champions? This has been given as something concrete by people involved in the early stages of SLAR's project. But no words in the last months...


It depends on how rapidly MLR expands and the international calendar. With two distinct seasons MLR and Test Season, I'm not sure where you fit a Champions Cup Structure. Hell I think the model in Europe is awful. MLR will look to expand to max saturation likely over a 20 year period, which is 30 teams for North America. So, I don't think that's on the cards, also, that will be extremely expensive.


Hear hear! It's a horrible format, I don't understand why any contact sport season has to last 8+ months. The domestic season is fine by itself but adding Champions/Challenge Cup (while highly entertaining) makes it very difficult. If there is just a one-off game for MLR vs SLAR after the end of the season then it can work for now. The national team players may not be available but these teams have quality players who aren't capped by the US/Canada and would be available. I don't know how this can fit in to an actual Champions Cup setting unless it's done once every few years or something, which I think would be pretty cool tbh. But having designated test windows makes it tough without shortening the season.

victorsra wrote:
Salta wrote:
victorsra wrote:Los Ceibos probably

No, I mean SLAR > MLR.


Only Los Ceibos. The others I don't think so. Probably Peñarol would do well there, but Olimpia, Corinthians and Selknam I doubt would above MLR's average. Anyway, Piñeyrua and Danza promised that fixture months ago...


We actually have the best frame of reference for Penarol because of the Uruguay vs Sabercats game 2 years ago (Uruguay won 32-24). But this was before the first season of MLR even took place and Uruguay has improved since then. But assuming that Penarol is essentially the Uruguayan national team plus a few other players then they should at least be competitive.

The European format is the best format, as demonstrated by the deluge of non Europeans choosing to play there. It's quite simple: European clubs play twice as many games as SH teams, which means they have more opportunities to make money, which means they can pay players more, which is what players want. Playing pro sport is a tough career, players want to earn as much as they can. Of course, one could argue SH players can have a longer career, however, I have never seen anything proving that, and even if it were true, prolonging the career by 2-3 years isn't going to make up for earning 2-3 times less per year playing in the SH than they'd make playing in Europe.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 21:23

Tobar wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
victorsra wrote:What about the idea of a match between SLAR champions and MLR champions? This has been given as something concrete by people involved in the early stages of SLAR's project. But no words in the last months...


It depends on how rapidly MLR expands and the international calendar. With two distinct seasons MLR and Test Season, I'm not sure where you fit a Champions Cup Structure. Hell I think the model in Europe is awful. MLR will look to expand to max saturation likely over a 20 year period, which is 30 teams for North America. So, I don't think that's on the cards, also, that will be extremely expensive.


Hear hear! It's a horrible format, I don't understand why any contact sport season has to last 8+ months. The domestic season is fine by itself but adding Champions/Challenge Cup (while highly entertaining) makes it very difficult. If there is just a one-off game for MLR vs SLAR after the end of the season then it can work for now. The national team players may not be available but these teams have quality players who aren't capped by the US/Canada and would be available. I don't know how this can fit in to an actual Champions Cup setting unless it's done once every few years or something, which I think would be pretty cool tbh. But having designated test windows makes it tough without shortening the season.


Well, Europe and Latin America follow soccer's tradition.... it is the model for everything. Even in amateur rugby it is inconceivable in South America or Europe that the season isn't all the year, with a short (rest) break. We don't play Cricket or Baseball.... no reason to be shorter.
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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 21:58

iul wrote:
Tobar wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
victorsra wrote:What about the idea of a match between SLAR champions and MLR champions? This has been given as something concrete by people involved in the early stages of SLAR's project. But no words in the last months...


It depends on how rapidly MLR expands and the international calendar. With two distinct seasons MLR and Test Season, I'm not sure where you fit a Champions Cup Structure. Hell I think the model in Europe is awful. MLR will look to expand to max saturation likely over a 20 year period, which is 30 teams for North America. So, I don't think that's on the cards, also, that will be extremely expensive.


Hear hear! It's a horrible format, I don't understand why any contact sport season has to last 8+ months. The domestic season is fine by itself but adding Champions/Challenge Cup (while highly entertaining) makes it very difficult. If there is just a one-off game for MLR vs SLAR after the end of the season then it can work for now. The national team players may not be available but these teams have quality players who aren't capped by the US/Canada and would be available. I don't know how this can fit in to an actual Champions Cup setting unless it's done once every few years or something, which I think would be pretty cool tbh. But having designated test windows makes it tough without shortening the season.

victorsra wrote:
Salta wrote:
victorsra wrote:Los Ceibos probably

No, I mean SLAR > MLR.


Only Los Ceibos. The others I don't think so. Probably Peñarol would do well there, but Olimpia, Corinthians and Selknam I doubt would above MLR's average. Anyway, Piñeyrua and Danza promised that fixture months ago...


We actually have the best frame of reference for Penarol because of the Uruguay vs Sabercats game 2 years ago (Uruguay won 32-24). But this was before the first season of MLR even took place and Uruguay has improved since then. But assuming that Penarol is essentially the Uruguayan national team plus a few other players then they should at least be competitive.

The European format is the best format, as demonstrated by the deluge of non Europeans choosing to play there. It's quite simple: European clubs play twice as many games as SH teams, which means they have more opportunities to make money, which means they can pay players more, which is what players want. Playing pro sport is a tough career, players want to earn as much as they can. Of course, one could argue SH players can have a longer career, however, I have never seen anything proving that, and even if it were true, prolonging the career by 2-3 years isn't going to make up for earning 2-3 times less per year playing in the SH than they'd make playing in Europe.


We've been over this quite a lot - the number of games isn't the reason why European rugby is more profitable. It's a better economy with a greater population density (and the league format isn't bland). South Africa is poor, New Zealand is small and Australia doesn't care about rugby; simple as that. Add in the fact that unions play a large role in the decisions and it's not a well run business. The number of games is low on the reasons and I doubt it would make much or any difference for SANZAAR. The NFL has the same season length as Super Rugby and it's doing quite well.

Well, Europe and Latin America follow soccer's tradition.... it is the model for everything. Even in amateur rugby it is inconceivable in South America or Europe that the season isn't all the year, with a short (rest) break. We don't play Cricket or Baseball.... no reason to be shorter.


I'm confused about the reference to baseball. The MLB has 162 games and takes place over 6 months, hardly a short season. Rugby shouldn't be played all of the year because it has a much higher physical impact than soccer which is essentially cross country with sprints and a couple of slide tackles.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 23:33

victorsra wrote:
Well, Europe and Latin America follow soccer's tradition.... it is the model for everything. Even in amateur rugby it is inconceivable in South America or Europe that the season isn't all the year, with a short (rest) break. We don't play Cricket or Baseball.... no reason to be shorter.


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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby carbonero » Fri, 06 Dec 2019, 00:27

Julian Dominguez signs with NOLA > https://twitter.com/Perrugby/status/1202713523664695296

Four more Argentines are expected to sign deals with MLR in the coming weeks. I suspect most of them are from Buenos Aires. Tough sell moving to Córdoba for a meager salary.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 06 Dec 2019, 01:39

Hoping no one is surprised by that. As stated by Victor there's a clear lack of confidence in SLAR in some places. Whereas the experience of the States, even on meagre wages is apparently attractive.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby carbonero » Fri, 06 Dec 2019, 02:05

It is not just about SLAR. Dominguez spent four years in Arg. XV. Another one of the signings, Nicolás Solveira, spent three years with the team. They see themselves outside of Jaguares contention so it is natural to look at the best option around. Most of them go to Italy or Pro D2. Now MLR is an option. There is no incentive to stay in the country, especially if you have to move from your hometown.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby TuMachNach » Fri, 06 Dec 2019, 04:27

Yep, I'm not seeing it as something against SLAR. As I see it, MLR looks like a competititon that suits better than any European league for some guys from Argentina XV or Jaguares XV because they can still play for those teams after MLR. Now that the calendar for next years of ARC between August and September is official, players are free to choose or not an UAR contract in the first semester of the year so they can play wherever they want. If we compare how much the players are paid in MLR and SLAR, maybe it is one reason of choosing MLR above SLAR.

It's great for Argentina to see these things happening only if the guys who would play abroad don't get out of form. With so few professional teams of UAR, this should help to develop more players.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby iul » Fri, 06 Dec 2019, 06:35

We've been over this quite a lot - the number of games isn't the reason why European rugby is more profitable. It's a better economy with a greater population density (and the league format isn't bland). South Africa is poor, New Zealand is small and Australia doesn't care about rugby; simple as that. Add in the fact that unions play a large role in the decisions and it's not a well run business. The number of games is low on the reasons and I doubt it would make much or any difference for SANZAAR. The NFL has the same season length as Super Rugby and it's doing well

Yes, the number of games absolutely is why the SH has less money. When South Africa added a couple of teams to Pro14 the TV deal they got from the South African for that competition doubled the value of the tv deal they already had. The NRL has a tv deal worth 30m AUS in NZ and they only have a team based there. In Aus they got a TV deal worth millions for their Sydney club competition, which at thattime was the 3rd level of domestic rugby, below Super rugby and the NRC. There's plenty of money to be made in the SH by rugby, the SH just choose not to take it.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 06 Dec 2019, 08:16

iul wrote:
We've been over this quite a lot - the number of games isn't the reason why European rugby is more profitable. It's a better economy with a greater population density (and the league format isn't bland). South Africa is poor, New Zealand is small and Australia doesn't care about rugby; simple as that. Add in the fact that unions play a large role in the decisions and it's not a well run business. The number of games is low on the reasons and I doubt it would make much or any difference for SANZAAR. The NFL has the same season length as Super Rugby and it's doing well

Yes, the number of games absolutely is why the SH has less money. When South Africa added a couple of teams to Pro14 the TV deal they got from the South African for that competition doubled the value of the tv deal they already had. The NRL has a tv deal worth 30m AUS in NZ and they only have a team based there. In Aus they got a TV deal worth millions for their Sydney club competition, which at thattime was the 3rd level of domestic rugby, below Super rugby and the NRC. There's plenty of money to be made in the SH by rugby, the SH just choose not to take it.


That's not true. They actually produce their own content and provide it to the FTA broadcaster who screen it on one of the digital channels. Costs somewhere between $500-750k a season. But there is an element of truth there. A TT competition would bring in far more attention from viewers and sponsors from an Australian point of view.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Fri, 06 Dec 2019, 11:16

I'm confused about the reference to baseball. The MLB has 162 games and takes place over 6 months, hardly a short season. Rugby shouldn't be played all of the year because it has a much higher physical impact than soccer which is essentially cross country with sprints and a couple of slide tackles.


6 months is short (the number of matches of course isn't).

Soccer is always around 10 months everywhere in the world and it is the reference in Europe and Latin America (and Africa and most of Asia).

In most of the World outside the Anglosphere there isn't the concept of summer-winter split of team sports, as soccer is played all the year.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby argie » Fri, 06 Dec 2019, 11:31


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