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Pacific Nations Cup

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Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Tobar » Wed, 24 Jul 2019, 16:06

Didn't see a specific thread for PNC which kicks off this weekend. Here is the opening schedule:

July 27th

Tonga vs Samoa (Apia Park - Apia, Samoa)

Fiji vs Japan (Kamaishi Recovery Memorial Stadium - Kamaishi, Japan)

USA vs Canada (Infinity Park - Glendale, CO, USA)

https://www.world.rugby/pnc

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby 4N » Wed, 24 Jul 2019, 16:44

The Kamaishi stadium was built in a small city that suffered some of the worst damage in the 2011 tsunami.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Tobar » Wed, 24 Jul 2019, 17:47

I'm very excited to see the rugby at Kamaishi, the locals seem really excited to have a stadium built there as part of the recovery project.

Here is a video made by World Rugby that shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6P8gYd6xtQ

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Tobar » Wed, 24 Jul 2019, 18:02

On a side note, it would be terrific if the PNC could be repeated each year. For the past couple of years, it has only been the island nations involved with the random appearance of Georgia. This should be played each year and treated as the "Tier 2" Rugby Championship.

TRC is not going to allow promotion/relegation so I'm not going to bother going over that. But it would be great if we take these 6 teams and allow for promotion into this competition. Give 1 spot to the Asian Rugby Champion and 2 spots for the best 2 ARC teams (not including Arg XV). Then we just need to figure out what to do with the 3 islands and how we can create promotion/relegation for them. I'd say you can have another flex spot for the winner of AsRC 2 vs AmRC 3 vs PI 3 but the schedule of the AsRC doesn't lend itself very well to this since it typically ends in June. Should that be moved to August/October to align with the other competitions, especially now that the Top League is switching to January to May?

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby BigG » Wed, 24 Jul 2019, 18:57

Tobar wrote:This should be played each year and treated as the "Tier 2" Rugby Championship.


How do you know that?

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 03:20

Tobar wrote:On a side note, it would be terrific if the PNC could be repeated each year. For the past couple of years, it has only been the island nations involved with the random appearance of Georgia. This should be played each year and treated as the "Tier 2" Rugby Championship.

TRC is not going to allow promotion/relegation so I'm not going to bother going over that. But it would be great if we take these 6 teams and allow for promotion into this competition. Give 1 spot to the Asian Rugby Champion and 2 spots for the best 2 ARC teams (not including Arg XV). Then we just need to figure out what to do with the 3 islands and how we can create promotion/relegation for them. I'd say you can have another flex spot for the winner of AsRC 2 vs AmRC 3 vs PI 3 but the schedule of the AsRC doesn't lend itself very well to this since it typically ends in June. Should that be moved to August/October to align with the other competitions, especially now that the Top League is switching to January to May?


There's a work around regarding TRC and the lack of promotion/relegation. Have Aus and NZ join the PNC while also promoting Japan and Fiji into TRC. So the PNC would be an 8 team competition and the RC 6. Games played in the TRC between Aus, NZ, Japan and Fiji are also counted as part of their PNC schedule with other games scheduled in both the July and November windows to fill the other 4 games.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Edgar » Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 06:47

A tier 2 championship sounds like an awful idea to me. The focus should be on regional competition, because that's the only way to grow the game. A tier 2 championship is only going to consolidate these teams' status - as tier 2 teams. They're not going to attain tier 1 status unless they're playing tier 1 sides, and the tier 3 nations below them are not going to improve either unless they're playing the tier 2 sides. Apparently World Rugby has scrapped the tier system anyway, although the terminology is still in use even among officials themselves.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 07:08

Edgar wrote:A tier 2 championship sounds like an awful idea to me. The focus should be on regional competition, because that's the only way to grow the game. A tier 2 championship is only going to consolidate these teams' status - as tier 2 teams. They're not going to attain tier 1 status unless they're playing tier 1 sides, and the tier 3 nations below them are not going to improve either unless they're playing the tier 2 sides. Apparently World Rugby has scrapped the tier system anyway, although the terminology is still in use even among officials themselves.


Hence my suggestion above. Have both Aus and NZ join the PNC and Japan and Fiji the RC. Use the RC games to double for PNC fixtures. The Eagles and Canada could use their ARC clash in a similar manner. As an example, here would be a prospective Aus schedule.

July:

Wk 1: Samoa
Wk 2 & 3: NH inbound

August/September:

PNC: Canada
RC/PNC: NZ

- break week -

RC: Arg
RC/PNC: Fiji

- break week -

RC/PNC: Japan
RC: SA

- break week -

PNC: USA

November:

PNC: Tonga
SH Outbound.

While the Eagles would have:

July:

Wk 1: Japan
Wk 2: Fiji
Wk 3: Tonga

August/September:

ARC: Uruguay
ARC/PNC: Canada

- break week -

ARC: Arg
ARC: Fiji

- break week -

ARC: Japan
ARC: SA

- break week -

PNC: Aus

November:

PNC: NZ
European Tour.

This would provide a more integrated schedule blending the traditional T1 and 2 nations at least from a Pacific region perspective.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 07:55

T2 CHAMP >> http://www.t2rugby.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 27#p110341
similar to ICC TEST CHAMPS

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Tobar » Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 18:35

BigG wrote:
Tobar wrote:This should be played each year and treated as the "Tier 2" Rugby Championship.


How do you know that?


I didn't say that this will be played each year, just that it should be played.
Edgar wrote:A tier 2 championship sounds like an awful idea to me. The focus should be on regional competition, because that's the only way to grow the game. A tier 2 championship is only going to consolidate these teams' status - as tier 2 teams.


This tournament has nothing to do with regional competitions - those already exist as the Americas Rugby Championship and Asia Rugby Championship. The PNC already exists, I'm just suggesting that we make it even better by offering extra incentives to play against the top teams in the region. Outside of the rare occasion where they play against a Tier 1 side once a year, this tournament is easily the most consistently competitive test matches that these teams get to play. Fiji, Tonga and Japan are all ranked higher than the US and we hardly get to play them.

They're not going to attain tier 1 status unless they're playing tier 1 sides, and the tier 3 nations below them are not going to improve either unless they're playing the tier 2 sides. Apparently World Rugby has scrapped the tier system anyway, although the terminology is still in use even among officials themselves.


This doesn't make any sense. The current setup allows for very few Tier 1 matchups for most Tier 2 sides. Like I said before, we usually get to play 1 or 2 Tier 1 sides per year and tbh the only reason the US has this many is because we are a recognizable name. Uruguay ain't getting these games. But my proposal is actually allowing Tier 3 sides to play against more Tier 2 sides -- countries like Malaysia, South Korea, Brazil and Chile have an opportunity to be promoted to this tournament. This is significantly better than the alternative which is currently "hope you get to play a test match, otherwise let's play Sudamerica XV and Argentine clubs again."

I like WCRugger's suggestion of tying this into the Rugby Championship - that would allow Tier 2 teams to play against the Tier 1 sides but also keeps the "sanctity" of the Rugby Championship for the purists.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Edgar » Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 20:23

The current setup allows for very few Tier 1 matchups for most Tier 2 sides


That was my point. A tier 2 comp isn't going to change that. Developing regional competitions can. I remember back in the 90s when PNC was a big deal and teams travelling thousands of kms to play in front of hundreds of spectators. The only one of them to show any sign of improvement was Japan, and that was probably because back then Japan had been the weakest of the teams involved. But none of those teams did particularly well at the 99 or 03 World Cups. That's why I've never been a fan of this particular tournament. I'd rather see the Pacific Islands join Asia and help bring that region up to speed, while the US and Canada continue to focus on ARC, MLR and RAN. Just my personal view.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Tobar » Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 22:04

Why can’t they do both? The competitions are not mutually exclusive.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Edgar » Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 22:13

Tobar wrote:Why can’t they do both? The competitions are not mutually exclusive.


They can - evidently. Just saying I don't see PNC or an expanded tier 2 championship as being the way forward. World Rugby could invest their RWC proceeds more wisely in terms of developing the game at all levels. PNC always seemed like more of a cop-out to me, to relieve first tier nations of the burden of playing their second tier counterparts.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Immenso » Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 03:38

How does a team actually win this tournament in this format? 6 teams playing only 3 of the other 5 in a round robin? Just decided on a league table.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Hinato » Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 04:56

Le XV de départ japonais:

1-Keita Inagaki (Panasonic Wild Knights, 25 caps) 2-Shota Horie (Panasonic Wild Knights, 58 caps) 3-Asaeli Valu (Panasonic Wild Knights, 5 caps) 4-James Moore (Munakata Sanix Blues, 0 cap) 5-Luke Thompson (Kintetsu Liners, 64 caps) 6-Kazuki Himeno (Toyota Verblitz, 9 caps) 7-(c) Lappies Labuschagné (Kubota Spears, 0 cap) 8-Amanaki Lelei Mafi (NTT Shining Arcs, 22 caps) 9-Kaito Shigeno (Toyota Verblitz, 7 caps) 10-Yu Tamura (Canon Eagles, 54 caps) 11-Kenki Fukuoka (Panasonic Wild Knights, 30 caps) 12-Ryoto Nakamura (Suntory Sungoliath, 16 caps) 13-Timothy Lafaele (Kobelco Steelers, 14 caps) 14-Kotaro Matsushima (Suntory Sungoliath, 30 caps) 15-Will Tupou (Coca-Cola Red Sparks, 6 caps)

Remplaçants:

16-Atsushi Sakate (Panasonic Wild Knights, 13 caps) 17-Shogo Miura (Toyota Verblitz, 5 caps) 18-Yusuke Kizu (Toyota Verblitz, 0 cap) 19-Wimpie van der Walt (NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes 9 caps) 20-Michael Leitch (Toshiba Brave Lupus, 59 caps) 21-Yutaka Nagare (Suntory Sungoliath, 15 caps) 22-Rikiya Matsuda (Panasonic Wild Knights, 16 caps) 23-Lomano Lemeki (Honda Heat, 8 caps)

Le XV de départ fidjien:

1-Eroni Mawi (Fijian Drua, 6 caps) 2-Sam Matavesi (Toulouse, 7 caps) 3-Manasa Saulo (London Irish, 42 caps) 4-Albert Tuisue (London Irish, 6 caps) 5-Leone Nakarawa (Racing 92, 54 caps) 6-Dominiko Waqaniburotu (Pau, 45 caps) 7-Semi Kunatani (Harlequins, 7 caps) 8-Viliame Mata (Edinburgh Rugby, 10 caps) 9-Frank Lomani (Fijian Drua, 9 caps) 10-Ben Volavola (Racing 92, 29 caps) 11-Patrick Osborne (?, 8 caps) 12-Levani Botia (La Rochelle, 12 caps) 13-Waisea Nayacalevu (Stade Français, 18 caps) 14-Filipo Nakosi (Castres, un cap) 15-Alivereti Veitokani (London Irish, 8 caps)

Remplaçants:

16-Mesulame Dolokoto (Glasgow Warriors, 0 cap) 17-Peni Ravai (UBB, 26 caps) 18-Lee-Roy Atalifo (Jersey, 10 caps) 19-Apisalome Ratuniyarawa (Northampton, 32 caps) 20-Peceli Yato (Clermont, 13 caps) 21-Henry Seniloli (Doncaster, 26 caps) 22-Jale Vatubua (Pau, 14 caps) 23-Josh Matavesi (Newcastle, 18 caps)

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 06:32

Immenso wrote:How does a team actually win this tournament in this format? 6 teams playing only 3 of the other 5 in a round robin? Just decided on a league table.

YES = it is played DUBLIN'way

ONE trio just plays ANOTHER:
FIJ TON USA clash with JPN SAM CAN

Teams within SAME trio do NOT meet

League table is ONE and teams are sorted within it
in USUAL DUBLIN'way as well:

1) comp PTS: W 4, D 2, L 0; +1 = 4th Try | L within 7
2) DIFF = F-A
3) TRY count = TF-TA
4) Scored PTS = F
5) Scored T = TF
6) Toss of COIN

:::

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby welshdragon2000 » Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 09:41

Anyone know why Tuisova and Radrada aren’t in the Fiji squad?

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Edgar » Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 09:44

welshdragon2000 wrote:Anyone know why Tuisova and Radrada aren’t in the Fiji squad?


Injuries. Goneva is also out.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Tobar » Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 13:06

Edgar wrote:
Tobar wrote:Why can’t they do both? The competitions are not mutually exclusive.


They can - evidently. Just saying I don't see PNC or an expanded tier 2 championship as being the way forward. World Rugby could invest their RWC proceeds more wisely in terms of developing the game at all levels. PNC always seemed like more of a cop-out to me, to relieve first tier nations of the burden of playing their second tier counterparts.


Sure, it is a cop out but it's still some of the best competition that we get each year. The US is ranked 15th and can theoretically play against teams ranked 9th, 11th, 13th, 16th and 21st in the PNC. In the ARC, they play against teams ranked 18th, 21st, 26th and 29th. Yet somehow you are saying the ARC is better just because it's a regional tournament, despite the fact that they will have a much tougher test schedule at the PNC and against teams they've hardly ever beaten before. (Note: I love the ARC so don't twist what I'm saying to think that I'm against it).

There need to be more Tier 1 vs Tier 2 matchups (and Tier 2 vs Tier 3 matchups) but too many people on this forum think that simply playing against Tier 1 teams is some sort of a magic pill for their own country. There are so many factors that go into building up the sport in your country that Tier 1 test matches simply aren't enough to help. Also add in the fact that there are only really 7 or 8 "true" Tier 1 countries and it becomes difficult to require each to play more matches against an ever expanding Tier 2 rugby community. It's okay if we focus on creating a nice tournament like this because it will provide an actual challenge to everyone involved.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Edgar » Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 13:58

Yet somehow you are saying the ARC is better just because it's a regional tournament, despite the fact that they will have a much tougher test schedule at the PNC and against teams they've hardly ever beaten before.


I'm saying it is better for the development of the game. Yes, PNC will be a tough competition this year, Fiji coming off a win over France, US victors over Scotland last year, etc. But it doesn't include a first tier nation, like ARC, and it doesn't include any third tier nations either, like ARC. So in that respect ARC is better for the development of the game. Look at how Brazil have come along, for example. & if they introduce promotion-relegation, which I believe is the plan, then the sky's the limit. In fact, it will resemble the old FIRA competition, precursor to ENC, in which France fielded its A team for so many decades. That's basically what got rugby off the ground right across Europe. PNC is more like a second tier 6 Nations, a closed-shop invitational, which would be fine if it were self-funding and profitable, but it's not. It's funded by World Rugby at huge cost.

There need to be more Tier 1 vs Tier 2 matchups (and Tier 2 vs Tier 3 matchups) but too many people on this forum think that simply playing against Tier 1 teams is some sort of a magic pill for their own country.


Not sure anyone thinks that, do they? Certainly you need to be playing first tier nations, and if you're lucky enough to gain entry to one of the elite competitions - as Argentina and Italy have - there's a whole lot more involved than just the test matches. But just a friendly match here and there is definitely not enough. That's why all-inclusive regional competitions with promotion-relegation are the only way forward.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Warpath » Sat, 27 Jul 2019, 03:01

ground condition in apia is horrendous ....

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby 4N » Sat, 27 Jul 2019, 03:09


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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby Warpath » Sat, 27 Jul 2019, 03:11

10-10 44mins gone

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby 4N » Sat, 27 Jul 2019, 03:26

It’s a swamp.

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Re: Pacific Nations Cup

Postby 4N » Sat, 27 Jul 2019, 03:52

FT Samoa 25 - 17 Tonga

Scored a couple of late tries while Tonga had men in the bin.

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