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Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

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Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby dwpeate » Tue, 06 Aug 2019, 19:58

I thought I would set this up as it seems that recently, information regarding two of the main qualification regions has come to light. Here we can share any news on all things RWCQ 2023.

As a recap, here is the information, that as of today, I am aware of:

AFRICA:
There was of course the infamous cancellation of all levels of the Africa Cup due to the sponsorship collapse. This led to the announcement of a reformed, wholly continental competition, with all competitors able to win the same trophy.
Starting from November 2019, 16 teams will compete in the new Rugby Africa Cup (RAC) with an aim to qualify for the 2023 Rugby World Cup in 2022. This format is more inclusive and easier to follow. The top 16 teams based on the African ranking will compete in a single coordinated competition until the last two face each other in the final.

The first stage consists of a qualifying round: the teams ranked 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th will oppose the teams ranked 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th, respectively, in a single match at home. The winner of each of these four matches will progress to the group phase. In this second stage, the 12 teams are divided into 4 pools; inside each pool the 3 teams play against each other in a home or away game. The winner of each group will progress to the final tournament of the RAC. The top four teams from Africa will meet in one venue for the final stage of the RAC, which will include two semi-finals, a play-off for third place and, ultimately, the final to decide who will be the African champions.

Between the elimination series, the group rounds and the final tournament, there will be a total of twenty matches spread over up to sixteen different host countries across Africa.


AMERICAS:
There was a report that the Americas Rugby Championship would be providing qualifiers for the region, meaning the end of the Can-Am qualification leg-up.
From carbonero:
ARC from mid-August to mid-September. Acts as RWC qualifier in 2021/2022. Two direct berths plus other two in the repechage. Relegation playoff with the Challenge starting in 2020.


For me, this looks like it could be very interesting. From this I would imagine, 2020 would be the old South America B and C tournaments and the RAN competition for a playoff against the 2020 ARChallenge 4th place, eliminating the loser. 2021 would see the loser of the 2021 ARChampionship 6th place/ ARChallenge winner eliminated.

I suppose that the fundamentals of the Oceania and Asian qualification competitions will depend wholly on what happens in Japan, much like last time.
I guess Europe will also largely remain the same.

Do we know if it has been confirmed if 2023 is still 20 teams? I seem to remember murmurings of someone in WR mentioning 24 at some point but I can't recall exactly what was said. The TWO repechage teams from the Americas got me thinking a bit about what shape it might take.

Of course, none of this is officially official and we probably won't know until January for sure.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Neptune » Tue, 06 Aug 2019, 23:46

dwpeate wrote:I thought I would set this up as it seems that recently, information regarding two of the main qualification regions has come to light. Here we can share any news on all things RWCQ 2023.

As a recap, here is the information, that as of today, I am aware of:

AFRICA:
There was of course the infamous cancellation of all levels of the Africa Cup due to the sponsorship collapse. This led to the announcement of a reformed, wholly continental competition, with all competitors able to win the same trophy.
Starting from November 2019, 16 teams will compete in the new Rugby Africa Cup (RAC) with an aim to qualify for the 2023 Rugby World Cup in 2022. This format is more inclusive and easier to follow. The top 16 teams based on the African ranking will compete in a single coordinated competition until the last two face each other in the final.

The first stage consists of a qualifying round: the teams ranked 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th will oppose the teams ranked 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th, respectively, in a single match at home. The winner of each of these four matches will progress to the group phase. In this second stage, the 12 teams are divided into 4 pools; inside each pool the 3 teams play against each other in a home or away game. The winner of each group will progress to the final tournament of the RAC. The top four teams from Africa will meet in one venue for the final stage of the RAC, which will include two semi-finals, a play-off for third place and, ultimately, the final to decide who will be the African champions.

Between the elimination series, the group rounds and the final tournament, there will be a total of twenty matches spread over up to sixteen different host countries across Africa.


AMERICAS:
There was a report that the Americas Rugby Championship would be providing qualifiers for the region, meaning the end of the Can-Am qualification leg-up.
From carbonero:
ARC from mid-August to mid-September. Acts as RWC qualifier in 2021/2022. Two direct berths plus other two in the repechage. Relegation playoff with the Challenge starting in 2020.


For me, this looks like it could be very interesting. From this I would imagine, 2020 would be the old South America B and C tournaments and the RAN competition for a playoff against the 2020 ARChallenge 4th place, eliminating the loser. 2021 would see the loser of the 2021 ARChampionship 6th place/ ARChallenge winner eliminated.

I suppose that the fundamentals of the Oceania and Asian qualification competitions will depend wholly on what happens in Japan, much like last time.
I guess Europe will also largely remain the same.

Do we know if it has been confirmed if 2023 is still 20 teams? I seem to remember murmurings of someone in WR mentioning 24 at some point but I can't recall exactly what was said. The TWO repechage teams from the Americas got me thinking a bit about what shape it might take.

Of course, none of this is officially official and we probably won't know until January for sure.


The African qualification is really non - sensical. Just an attempt by North Africa to remain relevant. Any North African team can easily be beaten by half a century with Southern Africa's lowest tier B team. At the end of the day it will be a battle between South & East Africa, and most likely Namibia might win it, if the games against their toughest opponents the Zimbabwe Sables and the Kenya Simbas are all played in Windhoek.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby dwpeate » Wed, 07 Aug 2019, 07:08

Probably worth remembering that North African teams at home are no walkovers - Zimbabwe havent beaten Tunisia in a few years, and Morocco were close to or leading Kenya for most of the game last time. I think the concept is a good one, even if the loser of the qualifier round dont play all year

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Edgar » Wed, 07 Aug 2019, 11:40

Tunisia and Morocco have declined significantly since transferring from European competition to Africa at the turn of the century, and this is no doubt due in part to the fact most if not all of the top flight players are plying their trade in the European club leagues, notably in France. Both have reached World Cup qualifying repechages but that was some time ago now and neither appear likely to do so again in the foreseeable future. Tunisia conceded a century on their last visit to Kenya, and were annihilated 118-0 by Namibia last year. The Carthage Eagles were thumped 78-17 by Uganda's Cranes and the year before that 67-12. Kenya beat them 67-0 in 2018. Morocco, the region's traditional powerbase (and home of French legend Abdel Benazzi) had only just returned to the top division after a ban incurred some years before, and should have been relegated again, while Algeria are new to international rugby and only recently gained affiliation to World Rugby. The Maghreb Tri Nations demonstrated how closely matched these three nations are on the rugby pitch. Aside from Namibia, which is receiving a great deal of assistance from SA and World Rugby, East Africa is the region showing the most potential on the continent. But it is not progressing at the same rate as Europe and other regions, as evidenced by the Simbas' last place finish in last year's RWC qualifying repechage tournament. Zimbabwe appeared to be losing ground on the East Africans with a few lopsided defeats in recent years, but narrow victories over both Uganda and Kenya in the home leg this year offer some hope. Sables have moved up to 33rd in the world, just one place behind Kenya itself. Tunisia and Morocco are ranked 40th & 47th respectively, while Algeria have yet to join the rankings.

The Rise and Fall of World Cup qualifying https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/03/29/t ... ualifying/

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 07 Aug 2019, 14:39

Edgar wrote:
The Rise and Fall of World Cup qualifying https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/03/29/t ... ualifying/


Congrats on this spot-on article. It is great to say, that since your return you have contributed a lot of good posts and it was way more fun argueing with you and reading your posts :thumbup:
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Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby antlat » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 14:11

Japan, Ireland, Scotland, New Zealand, South Africa, Italy, England, France, Argentina, Wales, Australia and Fiji qualify for the 2023 World Cup.

So thats 6 Europe, 3 Oceania, 1 Asia, 1 Africa and 1 South America.

Most likely scenario in qualifying,

Top 2 Nations in European Nations Cup will qualify as Europe 1 and Europe 2.
Third place nation in European Nations Cup progress to Repechage Tournament.

Top 2 Nations in Americas Rugby Championship will qualify as Americas 1 and Americas 2
Third place nation in Americas Rugby Championship progress to Repechage Tournament.

Winner of Rugby Africa Cup will qualify as Africa 1
Runner up of Rugby Africa Cup will progress to Repechage Tournament

For Oceania a group between Samoa, Tonga and winner of Oceania Cup.
Top 2 will qualify as Oceania 1 and Oceania 2.

Winner of Asia Rugby Championship will progress to Repechage Tournament.

Winner of Repechage Tournament will qualify.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby antlat » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 14:19

I believe for the first time Africa will start the qualifiers.

Rugby Africa Cup

Qualifying Round

23.11.2019 Coted'Ivoire vs Rwanda Abidjan, CIV
23.11.2019 Ghana vs Botswana Accra, GHA
30.11.2019 Senegal vs Mauritius Dakar, SEN
01.12.2019 Madagascar vs Nigeria Antannarivo, MAD

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 16:48

That is what I am expecting as well. The only possible change is putting the Asian Champion into a comeptition with Samoa and Tonga with the loser going into the repercherge.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby qwerty » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 18:14

It will probably be a playoff between Samoa and Tonga, with the loser playing Hong Kong/South Korea or the Cook Islands/Tahiti/PNG

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby victorsra » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 18:24

They could do much better, unifying Oceania-Asia with a 5 nations. Samoa, Tonga, HK, Korea and the winner of a repechage Oceania Cup vs Asia. Or a 4 nations, with Korea facing a repechage to qualify for it. Something like this.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby rey200 » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 18:24

could, should, won't
Ceterum censeo Sex Nationes esse augendas.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby victorsra » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 18:27

I don't see why Asia-Oceania don't follow South American-North America steps. Two different federations, but one unified top league.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby dwpeate » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 18:28

They should announce soon really if the upcoming African playoffs are to be considered as part of it.
Last edited by dwpeate on Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 23:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby qwerty » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 18:43

qwerty wrote:It will probably be a playoff between Samoa and Tonga, with the loser playing Hong Kong/South Korea or the Cook Islands/Tahiti/PNG


Maybe not even that. Maybe the loser has to play Europe 3, like in this tournament.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 08:50

qwerty wrote:
qwerty wrote:It will probably be a playoff between Samoa and Tonga, with the loser playing Hong Kong/South Korea or the Cook Islands/Tahiti/PNG


Maybe not even that. Maybe the loser has to play Europe 3, like in this tournament.


Splitting hairs here, but it was Europe2. With Georgia missing the auto-qualification, you are probably right though, that it will be Europe3 next cycle.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 10:03

victorsra wrote:I don't see why Asia-Oceania don't follow South American-North America steps. Two different federations, but one unified top league.


This would be the ideal situation because it would me the path to qualification will be a lot tougher, and frankly more meaningful. I keep saying this but qualifiers have to be given more value for the sport. We have to do away with 12 automatic qualifiers, it makes for a boring qualification process.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualification

Postby novac » Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 11:40

RugbyLiebe wrote:
qwerty wrote:
qwerty wrote:It will probably be a playoff between Samoa and Tonga, with the loser playing Hong Kong/South Korea or the Cook Islands/Tahiti/PNG


Maybe not even that. Maybe the loser has to play Europe 3, like in this tournament.


Splitting hairs here, but it was Europe2. With Georgia missing the auto-qualification, you are probably right though, that it will be Europe3 next cycle.


After RWC1999 there were four places for Europe for direct qualification. In 2003 there were Ireland (Europe 1), Italy (Europe 2), Romania (Europe 3) and Georgia (Europe 4). In 2007 there were Italy (Europe 1), Romania (Europe 2), Georgia (Europe 3) and Portugal (Europe 4). Portugal had to play the final Repechage against Uruguay to qualify.
After that there were only three european teams to get a place to the RWC. When Georgia qualified automatically it left only two spots for the european Teams and only one was successfull (Russia by replacing Romania).
Conclusion, from four european teams qualified in 2007 we had only one team in 2019 plus Georgia. Probably in 2023 it will be repeated the situation from 2011 and 2015 with the first two teams in REC directly qualified and the third team going to Repechage. This will happen if the RWC stays with 20 teams. If it goes to 24, who knows?

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Thu, 17 Oct 2019, 01:53

thatrugbyguy wrote:
victorsra wrote:I don't see why Asia-Oceania don't follow South American-North America steps. Two different federations, but one unified top league.


This would be the ideal situation because it would me the path to qualification will be a lot tougher, and frankly more meaningful. I keep saying this but qualifiers have to be given more value for the sport. We have to do away with 12 automatic qualifiers, it makes for a boring qualification process.


I think the problem there is that, for Europe at least, you'd have some heavily overpowered 6N team (Scotland, Italy, or hell even France on a bad year) destroy REC sides who aren't even fully pro. Georgia and Romania would hold their own to some extent as well as Russia, but after that things would get very lopsided, and fast.

It would give the likes of Spain or Germany a valuable game, but it would be decided well before kickoff. This was the case with Asia each and every time before 2015. Japan would essentially score heavy scores, even centuries against the likes of Kazakhstan or the Philippines. The last time Japan lost to an Asian opponent was South Korea in 2002, and they haven't been seriously challenged for the top Asian side since the early 90s (when South Korea and Hong Kong were at peak).

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 17 Oct 2019, 06:59

Return_of_BG_97 wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:
victorsra wrote:I don't see why Asia-Oceania don't follow South American-North America steps. Two different federations, but one unified top league.


This would be the ideal situation because it would me the path to qualification will be a lot tougher, and frankly more meaningful. I keep saying this but qualifiers have to be given more value for the sport. We have to do away with 12 automatic qualifiers, it makes for a boring qualification process.


I think the problem there is that, for Europe at least, you'd have some heavily overpowered 6N team (Scotland, Italy, or hell even France on a bad year) destroy REC sides who aren't even fully pro. Georgia and Romania would hold their own to some extent as well as Russia, but after that things would get very lopsided, and fast.

It would give the likes of Spain or Germany a valuable game, but it would be decided well before kickoff. .


You are aware, that Spain is actually a better team than Russia (and at least in the two RECs better than Romania)? Germany got relegated, Portugal never use their massive French diaspora. Europe is the region, which got hold down by World Rugby politics the most. It has not only by far the most rugby playing nations with 36 nations playing on 5 (!) levels with promotion and relegation, but also a LOT of potential.
The outcome might be decided in advance, but the reason it is, is simply that those European nations never get to play the highest possible level. By your point the World Cup should have been reduced to 12 teams, when Japan got trashed. Don't follow this stupid narrative which kept rugby from having the global status it should have, as it is the greatest game on earth.
The European nations don't need anybody protecting them from trashings, they need those games on a regular basis to improve instead.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 17 Oct 2019, 07:45

I wonder why Pichot hasn't brought up an open qualification process yet. That would be the real way to open up the game

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby qwerty » Thu, 17 Oct 2019, 11:20

ihateblazers wrote:I wonder why Pichot hasn't brought up an open qualification process yet. That would be the real way to open up the game


I've been doodling with such a concept lately. It would dillute blowouts a lot for those regions with a single or two very dominant teams, or not enough teams strong enough to contend for the repechage.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby victorsra » Thu, 17 Oct 2019, 14:01

I have thought about one for a 24 teams RWC.

32 teams, 8 regional groups of 4, qualifying 16 teams, to be played duringB&I Lions month:

A (Americas 1): Argentina, Canada, Brazil, Mexico
B (Americas 2): Uruguay, USA, Chile, Colombia
C (Africa): South Africa, Namibia, Kenya, Zimbabwe
D (Europe 1): France, Italy, Georgia, Germany
E (Europe 2): England, Scotland, Russia, Portugal
F (Europe 3): Ireland, Wales, Spain, Romania
G (Asia-Oceania 1): New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga, Korea
H (Asia-Oceania 2): Australia, Japan, Samoa, Hong Kong

Why this way? To make all groups work the same, qualifying directly 2 teams.... which means the top 2 teams of each group must be teams able to play a RWC.


To be played in the last year before the RWC:


4ths play a Playoff (Playoff 1) against 8 teams qualified from the rest of the teams from each continent (regionally drawn):

Mexico vs Paraguay
Colombia vs Bermuda
Zimbabwe vs Uganda
Germany vs Belgium
Portugal vs Netherlands
Romania vs Switzerland
Korea vs Malaysia
Hong Kong vs PNG


3rds play a Final Playoff (Playoff 2) against the winners of Playoff 1, worthing 8 last places in the RWC (always matches between teams from different continents):

Brazil vs Germany
Chile vs Portugal
Kenya vs Romania
Georgia vs Mexico
Russia vs Korea
Spain vs Hong Kong
Tonga vs Zimbabwe
Samoa vs Colombia


In a 20-teams WC just ad one more playoff, maybe? Like:

Samoa/Colombia vs Romania/Kenya
Tonga/Zimbabwe vs Brazil/Germany
Russia/Korea vs Spain/Hong Kong
Georgia/Mexico vs Chile/Portugal
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby snapper37 » Thu, 17 Oct 2019, 15:03

victorsra wrote:I have thought about one for a 24 teams RWC.

32 teams, 8 regional groups of 4, qualifying 16 teams, to be played duringB&I Lions month:

A (Americas 1): Argentina, Canada, Brazil, Mexico
B (Americas 2): Uruguay, USA, Chile, Colombia
C (Africa): South Africa, Namibia, Kenya, Zimbabwe
D (Europe 1): France, Italy, Georgia, Germany
E (Europe 2): England, Scotland, Russia, Portugal
F (Europe 3): Ireland, Wales, Spain, Romania
G (Asia-Oceania 1): New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga, Korea
H (Asia-Oceania 2): Australia, Japan, Samoa, Hong Kong

Why this way? To make all groups work the same, qualifying directly 2 teams.... which means the top 2 teams of each group must be teams able to play a RWC.




To be played in the last year before the RWC:


4ths play a Playoff (Playoff 1) against 8 teams qualified from the rest of the teams from each continent (regionally drawn):

Mexico vs Paraguay
Colombia vs Bermuda
Zimbabwe vs Uganda
Germany vs Belgium
Portugal vs Netherlands
Romania vs Switzerland
Korea vs Malaysia
Hong Kong vs PNG


3rds play a Final Playoff (Playoff 2) against the winners of Playoff 1, worthing 8 last places in the RWC (always matches between teams from different continents):

Brazil vs Germany
Chile vs Portugal
Kenya vs Romania
Georgia vs Mexico
Russia vs Korea
Spain vs Hong Kong
Tonga vs Zimbabwe
Samoa vs Colombia


In a 20-teams WC just ad one more playoff, maybe? Like:

Samoa/Colombia vs Romania/Kenya
Tonga/Zimbabwe vs Brazil/Germany
Russia/Korea vs Spain/Hong Kong
Georgia/Mexico vs Chile/Portugal


I don't see what's wrong with what their doing now, each team has to work to get there and if a team misses out the through direct qualification than the repechage is the avenue. This years world cup is odd because two teams were caught cheating. Using the ARC as a qualification looks interesting as the teams in south america are getting stronger and deserve more game time.

This may be the last world cup Canada attends in awhile. With Direct out of ARC qualification Canada won't be able to get by USA or Uruguay, and Brazil is turning into a dog fight also. Plus add those two cheating teams back to the repercahge and Canada doesn't have a chance.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 17 Oct 2019, 15:18

snapper37 wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with what their doing now, each team has to work to get there and if a team misses out the through direct qualification than the repechage is the avenue. This years world cup is odd because two teams were caught cheating. Using the ARC as a qualification looks interesting as the teams in south america are getting stronger and deserve more game time.

This may be the last world cup Canada attends in awhile. With Direct out of ARC qualification Canada won't be able to get by USA or Uruguay, and Brazil is turning into a dog fight also. Plus add those two cheating teams back to the repercahge and Canada doesn't have a chance.


Auto-qualification for anyone but the host and previous champion is really dumb. I'd be good for a reduction to 5 slots though as part of a pathway to that. Host+Previous SFs. World Rugby was like: oh not enough money in the game, need to make more money, less friendlies blah blah blah...an easy way to do that is have more qualifying games.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby snapper37 » Thu, 17 Oct 2019, 15:54

TheStroBro wrote:
snapper37 wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with what their doing now, each team has to work to get there and if a team misses out the through direct qualification than the repechage is the avenue. This years world cup is odd because two teams were caught cheating. Using the ARC as a qualification looks interesting as the teams in south america are getting stronger and deserve more game time.

This may be the last world cup Canada attends in awhile. With Direct out of ARC qualification Canada won't be able to get by USA or Uruguay, and Brazil is turning into a dog fight also. Plus add those two cheating teams back to the repercahge and Canada doesn't have a chance.


Auto-qualification for anyone but the host and previous champion is really dumb. I'd be good for a reduction to 5 slots though as part of a pathway to that. Host+Previous SFs. World Rugby was like: oh not enough money in the game, need to make more money, less friendlies blah blah blah...an easy way to do that is have more qualifying games.



Fair point but They've done that before and Australia had to qualify, and there were some cricket scores in the process. Personally in would let the top 9 qualify. But any team in the third tier after the pool stages goes into a playoff round against each other.
3rd Pool A plays 3rd in Pool B
3rd in C plays the 3rd in D
winners play off
winner advance to the next WC

These games could be the mid week games....

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