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Let's talk about union budgets

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby carbonero » Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 21:52

Armchair Fan wrote:. And Argentina figure is unofficial, they're probably the least transparent union in Tier 1. I'd say their budget must have been increased by Super Rugby franchise.

That estimate includes the franchise. It is around 20-25 million dollars.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 22:08

amz wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:
amz wrote:we don't invest too much in Sevens and Women rugby and most if not all goes into XV. Also age grades is hectic since rely only on what clubs produce and we don't have a centralized program as Georgia. Steps are made but on such money it is pretty difficult.

I know the budget is tight and you basically don't care (which is respectable), but from a political and social POV it will never cease to astonish me how FRR can afford to neglect women's rugby. I mean, is there any European country where women have had so much weight in national sport than Romania?


It is not perceived as a woman sport and why go to rugby? there's handball or tennis which are much more visible and much better paid. best salary of a woman handball player is EUR 22k/month, true she is the best player in the world but still, rugby cannot compete with it. we had one or two women rugby players from handball age grades but there's no point to invest in it more than university teams.in tennis 6 out of best 100 women are Romanian and this is quite a respectable figure for a country of our size...

Because your father did. Or because you don't want to be a 'princess'. Or because it has a funnier atmosphere at amateur level than other sports. I don't know, there may be reasons beyond money.

I know Romania is top notch in women sport, your women had collected 84 Olympic medals (!!!) by the time Spain got its first, in 1992, that's why I raise the issue. It's the very same reason it doesn't surprise Russia spends resources in women's rugby, they've got a tradition in female sport.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby amz » Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 22:25

will tell you tomorrow what I think, now I am too drunk to write :P

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby Tobar » Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 23:05

A proper response

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby STMKY » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 06:22

7.3 ml $ its 2018 budjet, becouse come new sponsors like Aeroflot

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby victorsra » Sun, 01 Apr 2018, 21:16

http://www.fijirugby.com/wp-content/upl ... Report.pdf

Fijian RU income in 2015 was 12,1 million Fijian dollars = 4,9 million euros

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Sun, 01 Apr 2018, 21:20

STMKY wrote:7.3 ml $ its 2018 budjet, becouse come new sponsors like Aeroflot


Someone has to pay for Artemyev’s tiepins, right?

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby Trendsetta » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 01:25

The Kenya Rugby Union's income for 2017 was 212 Million Kenya shillings($2.1M), but expenditure was Ksh 247M($2.45M) thus a Ksh 35M ($347,200) deficit.
In terms of only sponsorship the total for 2017 was Ksh 161M ($1.59M) as compared to Ksh 176M ($1.74M) for 2016, a dip due to one of the sponsor's contract (safaricom) ending.
You can find this information and much more from this pdf: [file:///C:/Users/user/Downloads/AGM%20Presentation%20-%20Final%2020th%20March%202018.pdf]

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 02:11

iul wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
amz wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:7.3 M$ was the number given today by Igor Artemyev. Much much higher than you were telling us, you little liars :D
https://rugger.info/news/19367


Whoaa.. :shock: what did you do with so much money ? That's almost double than Romania.


How the heck do you guys operate that the level your are under $4MM?

We don't have a lot of clubs, and the pro and semi-pro clubs get money not included in FRR budget from the local authorities.


I've always wondered about Romanian rugby as there doesn't seem to be much of an amateur men's game. Is it basically that you play as a junior and if you are good enough you play as a pro and if not, you retire?

Ice hockey is like that in Canada, as far as competitive leagues are concerned, most people stop playing competitively between the ages of 16-20 when they realize they aren't making the show, i.e. The pro ranks.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby iul » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 07:51

Canadian_Rugger wrote:
iul wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
amz wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:7.3 M$ was the number given today by Igor Artemyev. Much much higher than you were telling us, you little liars :D
https://rugger.info/news/19367


Whoaa.. :shock: what did you do with so much money ? That's almost double than Romania.


How the heck do you guys operate that the level your are under $4MM?

We don't have a lot of clubs, and the pro and semi-pro clubs get money not included in FRR budget from the local authorities.


I've always wondered about Romanian rugby as there doesn't seem to be much of an amateur men's game. Is it basically that you play as a junior and if you are good enough you play as a pro and if not, you retire?

Ice hockey is like that in Canada, as far as competitive leagues are concerned, most people stop playing competitively between the ages of 16-20 when they realize they aren't making the show, i.e. The pro ranks.

There is a 9 team semi-pro league below Super Liga, and below that there's a 5 team amateur league. Other than that a few years ago there was an amateur 10's league containing about 10 teams that consisted of a few one day festivals of 10s rugby, but as far as I can remember it only lasted for one year, and I'm not even sure they finished that first season. So yeah, basically, if you're an adult, you either go semipro/pro or you most likely stop playing.

In most areas there aren't enough teams in close proximity to each other to make it very cheap to participate and people don't have that much disposable income, so it's difficult to put amateur teams together to participate in championships.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby YamahaKiwi » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 11:42

STMKY wrote:7.3 ml $ its 2018 budjet, becouse come new sponsors like Aeroflot


Aha! So Aeroflot is a new sponsor for RUR. I thought I spied their banner on the video for the match in Krasnodar. I meant to ask you guys about it at the time but forgot.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby STMKY » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 12:38

YamahaKiwi wrote:
STMKY wrote:7.3 ml $ its 2018 budjet, becouse come new sponsors like Aeroflot


Aha! So Aeroflot is a new sponsor for RUR. I thought I spied their banner on the video for the match in Krasnodar. I meant to ask you guys about it at the time but forgot.

At the moment they have two big sponsors. Aeroflot and a big food network of hypermarkets Dixy. Last year, there was also talk about the Russian Railways, but apparently something did not work out.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby STMKY » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 12:40

Zhenya_Zima wrote:
STMKY wrote:7.3 ml $ its 2018 budjet, becouse come new sponsors like Aeroflot


Someone has to pay for Artemyev’s tiepins, right?

Artemiev clearly belongs to the top 50 people in Russia in terms of their influence, maybe even in the top 20. He can talk to Gazprom or Rosneft on equal terms.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby amz » Tue, 03 Apr 2018, 08:04

iul wrote:Other than that a few years ago there was an amateur 10's league containing about 10 teams that consisted of a few one day festivals of 10s rugby, but as far as I can remember it only lasted for one year, and I'm not even sure they finished that first season. So yeah, basically, if you're an adult, you either go semipro/pro or you most likely stop playing.


10s league lasted actually two seasons and was dropped due lack of perspective as this variant is played in Europe only at festivals. Besides, some injuries were quite heavy for some amateurs. The lack of an administrative body was also a setback, basically everything was left to organizers without much involvement of volunteering from other clubs. Interesting fact is that in one small city when one round of the 10s league was played a new junior club was founded soon after (Turnu Magurele) and two others in neigbouring towns (Rosiori de Vede, Alexandria). Some clubs survived (Arlechinii, Dracula, GFP) and play at amateur level touring sides from UK, France, Netherlands, Russia or versus junior teams or organize festivals of 10s from time to time. As far as I know, completely amateur clubs who play from time to time versus U20s or touring sides are in Constanta (Rechinii), Iasi and Timisoara (not sure if this last one is still active, I've seen some noise on facebook but nothing much). But no, there's no amateur league under 3rd Division.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 13:04

I tried to update all the data, please correct me or share info about missing and outdated unions
- England: 172.4 M£ - 199.5 M€ (2017-2018 season) - RFU Website
- New Zealand: 191,4 MNZ$ - 109.9 M€ (2018) - All Blacks Website
- Wales: 92.6 M£ - 106.9 M€ (2017-2018 season) - WRU Website
- France: 104.4 M€ (2018-2019 season) - FFR Website
- Ireland: 85,6 M€ (2018-2019 season) - IRFU Website
- South Africa: 1,242 MR - 76.2 M€ (2018) - SARU Website
- Scotland: 60.5 M£ - 69.9 M€ (2018-2019 season) - SRU Website
- Australia: 111 MA$ - 68.2 M€ (2018) - ARU
- Japan: 64 M$ - 59,7 M€ (2017)
- Italy: 45.5 M€ (2018) - FIR Website
- United States: 31.6 M$ - 28.4 M€ (2018) - USA Rugby Website - Increased by 7s RWC, 18.4 M$/16.6 M€ in 2017.
- Argentina: 25 M$ - 22.5 M€ - Agustín Pichot
- Russia: 1288 M RUB - 19.4 M$ - 17.5 M€ (2020) - RIA
- Canada: 16.2 MC$ - 11.1 M€ (2017) - Rugby Canada
- Georgia: 33 ML - 10.3 M€ (2019) - GRU Website
- Fiji: 17.6 FJ$ - 7.2 M€ (2018) - FRU
- Spain: 5.7 M€ (2018) - FER Website
- Brasil: 17.7 MR$ - 3.9 M€ (2018) - Brasil Rugby Website
- Romania: around 3.5 M€ (at least 2.3M€ from government in 2019)
- Samoa: 10 SM$ - 3.4 M€ (2018) - Samoa PM
- Uruguay: 3 M$ - 2.8 M€ (2015)
- Kenya: 2M€ (2017) - KRU Website
- Portugal: 1.7 M€ (2019) - FPR

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby iul » Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 14:26

Armchair Fan wrote:I tried to update all the data, please correct me or share info about missing and outdated unions
- England: 172.4 M£ - 199.5 M€ (2017-2018 season) - RFU Website
- New Zealand: 191,4 MNZ$ - 109.9 M€ (2018) - All Blacks Website
- Wales: 92.6 M£ - 106.9 M€ (2017-2018 season) - WRU Website
- France: 104.4 M€ (2018-2019 season) - FFR Website
- Ireland: 85,6 M€ (2018-2019 season) - IRFU Website
- South Africa: 1,242 MR - 76.2 M€ (2018) - SARU Website
- Scotland: 60.5 M£ - 69.9 M€ (2018-2019 season) - SRU Website
- Australia: 111 MA$ - 68.2 M€ (2018) - ARU
- Japan: 64 M$ - 59,7 M€ (2017)
- Italy: 45.5 M€ (2018) - FIR Website
- United States: 31.6 M$ - 28.4 M€ (2018) - USA Rugby Website - Increased by 7s RWC, 18.4 M$/16.6 M€ in 2017.
- Argentina: 25 M$ - 22.5 M€ - Agustín Pichot
- Russia: 1288 M RUB - 19.4 M$ - 17.5 M€ (2020) - RIA
- Canada: 16.2 MC$ - 11.1 M€ (2017) - Rugby Canada
- Georgia: 33 ML - 10.3 M€ (2019) - GRU Website
- Fiji: 17.6 FJ$ - 7.2 M€ (2018) - FRU
- Spain: 5.7 M€ (2018) - FER Website
- Brasil: 17.7 MR$ - 3.9 M€ (2018) - Brasil Rugby Website
- Romania: around 3.5 M€ (at least 2.3M€ from government in 2019)
- Samoa: 10 SM$ - 3.4 M€ (2018) - Samoa PM
- Uruguay: 3 M$ - 2.8 M€ (2015)
- Kenya: 2M€ (2017) - KRU Website
- Portugal: 1.7 M€ (2019) - FPR

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Epic skills bro.

Your estimate of Romania's budget is likely accurate. In 2018 their revenues were 15.85 million Lei, which is about 3.33 million eur.
It will be interesting to see what will happen to the revenues next year, when Arcul de Triumf stadium, along with its money generating facilities ( hotel, etc..) will be finished.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 16:05

Only "surprise" is Argentina running a super rugby and regular T1 match schedule for that budget.

Given the NZ, Ireland and Scotland ones include all their provincial teams while England, Wales and France obviously don't its interesting to consider the overall "rugby economy" in many countries. I am not sure how Australia and South Africa account for their Super Rugby sides.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby ihateblazers » Tue, 07 Jan 2020, 09:33

The Hong Kong Rugby Union revenue was USD$32M for 2018/19 https://www.hkrugby.com/about/about-us

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 15 Jan 2020, 16:57

ihateblazers wrote:The Hong Kong Rugby Union revenue was USD$32M for 2018/19 https://www.hkrugby.com/about/about-us



That's insane, how is that even possible?

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby iul » Wed, 15 Jan 2020, 20:22

TheStroBro wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:The Hong Kong Rugby Union revenue was USD$32M for 2018/19 https://www.hkrugby.com/about/about-us



That's insane, how is that even possible?

They host the Hong Kong 7s, which is perhaps the largest 7s event anywhere.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 16 Jan 2020, 00:42

TheStroBro wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:The Hong Kong Rugby Union revenue was USD$32M for 2018/19 https://www.hkrugby.com/about/about-us



That's insane, how is that even possible?


95% comes from the sevens. Massive corporate hospitality. I read that some boxes have been sold for US$50k, a lot of investment banks snap them up. They even get nearly US$13m from player membership dues. Always thought that other T2 nation's should look at 7s events as a way of funding the game since it's the only realistic annual event they can get a large crowd for.

I guess each day of the 3 day sevens is basically as lucrative as a 6N or November home match, except they only play in a 40,000 seater stadium, the 7's are not lucrative in terms of TV and they lease the stadium. So it's pretty amazing.

https://www.scmp.com/sport/rugby/hk-sevens/article/3005004/hong-kong-sevens-keep-money-tap-turned-hkru-chief-urges-kai

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 16 Jan 2020, 07:50

ihateblazers wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:The Hong Kong Rugby Union revenue was USD$32M for 2018/19 https://www.hkrugby.com/about/about-us



That's insane, how is that even possible?


95% comes from the sevens. Massive corporate hospitality. I read that some boxes have been sold for US$50k, a lot of investment banks snap them up. They even get nearly US$13m from player membership dues. Always thought that other T2 nation's should look at 7s events as a way of funding the game since it's the only realistic annual event they can get a large crowd for.

I guess each day of the 3 day sevens is basically as lucrative as a 6N or November home match, except they only play in a 40,000 seater stadium, the 7's are not lucrative in terms of TV and they lease the stadium. So it's pretty amazing.

https://www.scmp.com/sport/rugby/hk-sevens/article/3005004/hong-kong-sevens-keep-money-tap-turned-hkru-chief-urges-kai


Tell this to World Rugby. We all know that Germany tries to get a World 7s Series event, but World Rugby prefers their usual suspects.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 16 Jan 2020, 07:57

RugbyLiebe wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:95% comes from the sevens. Massive corporate hospitality. I read that some boxes have been sold for US$50k, a lot of investment banks snap them up. They even get nearly US$13m from player membership dues. Always thought that other T2 nation's should look at 7s events as a way of funding the game since it's the only realistic annual event they can get a large crowd for.

I guess each day of the 3 day sevens is basically as lucrative as a 6N or November home match, except they only play in a 40,000 seater stadium, the 7's are not lucrative in terms of TV and they lease the stadium. So it's pretty amazing.

https://www.scmp.com/sport/rugby/hk-sevens/article/3005004/hong-kong-sevens-keep-money-tap-turned-hkru-chief-urges-kai


Tell this to World Rugby. We all know that Germany tries to get a World 7s Series event, but World Rugby prefers their usual suspects.


It's amazing how France, England, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia keep getting sevens events. I can understand England from a financial perspective for World Rugby but the others are all pretty flat events apart from Cape Town.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby victorsra » Mon, 03 Feb 2020, 18:28

For one more year CBRu closed 2019 in debt: http://ww2.brasilrugby.com.br/wp-conten ... .12_vf.pdf

And with our currency going bad, CBRu's 2020 budget is only 3,5 m dollars.

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Re: Let's talk about union budgets

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Tue, 04 Feb 2020, 07:01

Sevens isn't really a money maker though, especially if the country in question runs a high performance program itself.

I've looked at World Rugby Finances involving Sevens Tournaments and the tournaments don't make much profit and even lose money when taken in to the context of paying players and supporting programs.

Sevens is much like Grand Prix Racing. It's a few showcase events every year that lose money but are seen as useful because those showcase events help promote where the real money is made, XVs and the RWC.

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