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Rugby in Brazil

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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 16:21

It is old, but very good to watch matches there. However, rugby won't return anytime soon to Pacaembu...
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 16:34

victorsra wrote:It is old, but very good to watch matches there. However, rugby won't return anytime soon to Pacaembu...


Why is that, apart from Coronavirus? Is that not the national stadium for rugby?

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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 17:07

No, it has never been. Pacaembu is the municipal (public) football stadium, where the Football Museum is located. The historic stadium that hosted the 1950 FIFA World Cup and many great events of Brazilian/São Paulo football. However, 2 of the big 3 São Paulo clubs (São Paulo and Palmeiras) had their own stadiums, leaving Pacaembu to Corinthians. As you know, Corinthians finalany built its own stadium, the one used in the 2014 FIFA WC.

Without Corinthians, Santos started to use Pacaembu more. Santos is the 4th most supported club in São Paulo, but they are from Santos, São Paulo's port city, located 90 km down the mountains range. Santos is popular because of Pelé and all other huge names they had. They have more supporters (in numbers) in São Paulo than in Santos, but they have their own stadium in Santos anyway. Only recently they decided to move more matches to Pacaembu.

Anyway, apart from Santos matches, Pacaembu was targeted by women's football and rugby as a venue for big event, as the municipality wanted more events there. That's how rugby started to use it. However, the municipal government changed and the party that took wanted wants to privatise Pacaembu and has just did that. The consortium that won the bid will demolish part of it to build a hotel and rebuild another part. They want to work more closely with Santos as well. As a historical building of São Paulo, three things can't be changed: the Museum must stay, it must keep being a sports venues and the façade must be preserved, but they can rebuild the rest.

Now Pacaembu was transformed in a covid-19 campaign hospital, but when the crisis is over it will probably close for those renovations and after that it will probably be more expensive for rugby to rent Pacaembu, sadly...

Image
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 17:17

Just another note, the Brazilian rugby national team played a total of 7 matches there:

- Brazil 07 - 31 Germany, 2015 (biggest attendance there, 10.500 official, but CBRu claims around 15k, as they opened the gates at half time)
- Brazil 20 - 20 Chile, in 2016
- Brazil 17 - 03 Chile, in 2017
- Brazil 24 - 23 Canada, in 2017
- Brazil 57 - 06 Paraguay, in 2017
- Brazil 25 - 21 Portugal, in 2017
- Brazil 18 - 27 Uruguay, in 2018
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 17:47

Thank you. That explains what you were saying earlier that Rugby Brazil needs its own stadium. It seems a shame that Estadio Do Pacaembu has been privatised, but it makes sense for the city to release some capital, and it does mean the stadium is being both conserved and renovated, which I expect it is due. It is a shame the Brazilian Rugby Union couldn't have bought a stake in it, but I guess that would be more money than they can currently afford for a bigger stadium than they need.

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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 21:59

I honestly believe we don't need another modern stadium. Pacaembu is good enough to be a community stadium and should be focused no women's football, amateur football (the last Favelas Cup was very nice there), rugby and american football (as both have the demand for a stadium). The bid behind the privatization will make money building there a hotel, it is VERY well located. The stadium will probably be reduced and its costs will be payed by those eventual Santos' matches. They won't renovate it to offer a needed facility. It is useless for all sports apart from Santos. And it won't be used for concerts because the local dwellers don't allow big loud events in the night there (Pacaembu area is very rich).
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby theDarky » Wed, 15 Apr 2020, 16:02

victorsra wrote:I honestly believe we don't need another modern stadium. Pacaembu is good enough to be a community stadium and should be focused no women's football, amateur football (the last Favelas Cup was very nice there), rugby and american football (as both have the demand for a stadium). The bid behind the privatization will make money building there a hotel, it is VERY well located. The stadium will probably be reduced and its costs will be payed by those eventual Santos' matches. They won't renovate it to offer a needed facility. It is useless for all sports apart from Santos. And it won't be used for concerts because the local dwellers don't allow big loud events in the night there (Pacaembu area is very rich).


I like its architecture.

According to you, could Santos be a good brand for the SLAR ?

You know the club is more famous in Europe than Corinthians because of Pele or more recently Robinho and Neymar.

In France, after the Euro2016, Girondin Bordeaux and Olympique Lyonnais left their stadiums for new ones.

LOU and Union Bordeaux Bègles got the two old historic stadiums:
- Gerland for Lyon (the stadium received 5 finals of the french championship 1957, 1961, 1965, 1969 and 1972)
- Parc Lescure (it got a new name relative to the former mayor and prime minister who was an international rugby player - the stadium received 11 finals from 1924 to 1971)

They reduced their size and it s a great success.

During this time, the two football clubs struggled to make money with their new toys.

Old stadiums are a good deal for a sport like rugby.

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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Wed, 15 Apr 2020, 16:54

theDarky wrote:
victorsra wrote:I honestly believe we don't need another modern stadium. Pacaembu is good enough to be a community stadium and should be focused no women's football, amateur football (the last Favelas Cup was very nice there), rugby and american football (as both have the demand for a stadium). The bid behind the privatization will make money building there a hotel, it is VERY well located. The stadium will probably be reduced and its costs will be payed by those eventual Santos' matches. They won't renovate it to offer a needed facility. It is useless for all sports apart from Santos. And it won't be used for concerts because the local dwellers don't allow big loud events in the night there (Pacaembu area is very rich).


I like its architecture.

According to you, could Santos be a good brand for the SLAR ?

You know the club is more famous in Europe than Corinthians because of Pele or more recently Robinho and Neymar.

In France, after the Euro2016, Girondin Bordeaux and Olympique Lyonnais left their stadiums for new ones.

LOU and Union Bordeaux Bègles got the two old historic stadiums:
- Gerland for Lyon (the stadium received 5 finals of the french championship 1957, 1961, 1965, 1969 and 1972)
- Parc Lescure (it got a new name relative to the former mayor and prime minister who was an international rugby player - the stadium received 11 finals from 1924 to 1971)

They reduced their size and it s a great success.

During this time, the two football clubs struggled to make money with their new toys.

Old stadiums are a good deal for a sport like rugby.


Santos would be a bad brand. It is the 4th most popular team in São Paulo and, therefore, has rivalries with the other 3, that are much more popular. Big football clubs are bad ideas because people that support their rivals won't support them. Such situation can be solved in a country like Uruguay where almost everybody support one of two clubs. You can have eventualy two professional rugby teams there. But Brazil has too many big and rival clubs.
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 17 May 2020, 16:56

Welsh rugby YouTuber named "Rygbi" has uploaded his interview with Josh Reeves today. It is interesting to hear his views and ideas on the game.

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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Sun, 17 May 2020, 17:53

Cool. Josh is a great guy. We are lucky to have him.
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Fri, 22 May 2020, 14:52

We (Portal do Rugby) are promoting here in Brazil a series of "Rugby Tallks", debates about rugby management. The first Talks was about social projects; the second about clubs; and the third about federations. In the third we invited Brazilian Rugby Union's CEO (Jean-Luc Jadoul), Rio de Janeiro Rugby Union's president and we invited the president of the Brazilian American Football Confederation. It was a rugby vs american football debate + a national vs regional level debate.

One of the things that will interesting you people is that Jadoul talked about CBRu's partnership with CVC. This is important.

(obviously it is in Portuguese, but those that understand latin languages may give it a go)
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby sammo » Fri, 22 May 2020, 14:53

victorsra wrote:We (Portal do Rugby) are promoting here in Brazil a series of "Rugby Tallks", debates about rugby management. The first Talks was about social projects; the second about clubs; and the third about federations. In the third we invited Brazilian Rugby Union's CEO (Jean-Luc Jadoul), Rio de Janeiro Rugby Union's president and we invited the president of the Brazilian American Football Confederation. It was a rugby vs american football debate + a national vs regional level debate.

One of the things that will interesting you people is that Jadoul talked about CBRu's partnership with CVC. This is important.

(obviously it is in Portuguese, but those that understand latin languages may give it a go)


Are you able to give a quick summary of the CVC info Victor? My Portuguese is worse than my Welsh...

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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Fri, 22 May 2020, 15:14

It is a close adivisory work, basicaly. But they are working together and that is important to pay attention.
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Thu, 28 May 2020, 01:42

2020 Super 12 (Brazilian Championship) cancelled...
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Sat, 30 May 2020, 18:39

victorsra wrote:2020 Super 12 (Brazilian Championship) cancelled...


This means only state competitions might be played in the second semestre, IF Brazil controls the nightmare. I said weeks ago it was only a matter of time for we to reach the 2nd place in number of covid-19 cases and there you are.

In the other hand, the pandemics brought a very positive movement in Brazilian rugby that might produce great results and change our course in a positive way. After the change of the CEO and the Tupis' coach, we are seeing both, the coaching staff and the Brazilian Rugby Union administration working much more closer to the community. They created now a concept called "Núcleo do Jogo" (the translation would be more or less "Game's Centre" or "Game's Nucleous", maybe...). It is basically a permanent work group that invoves the Tupis/Yaras/Corinthians coaches and more than 200 club coaches, from all states, from kids rugby to senior rugby. They are doing every week Zoom meetings and developing new material to help everybody to develop. They are also diagnosing and mapping the whole Brazilian rugby.

With a positive change in the attitude in the top of Brazilian rugby and using the quanrentine as an opportunity to reorganize and make people closer, things are happening. I'm much more optimistic now.
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 31 May 2020, 18:17

And when those people will translate new Lawbook?
https://laws.worldrugby.org/

:::

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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Sun, 31 May 2020, 19:58

Yes, there is a person with this mission already
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby Blurandski » Fri, 05 Jun 2020, 01:03

victorsra wrote:It is a close adivisory work, basicaly. But they are working together and that is important to pay attention.


If CVC want to make a serious return from their investment they need to make Rugby a world sport. If their tendrils are sneaking into T2/3 unions that's a very good sign.

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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Sun, 07 Jun 2020, 16:10

But the Brazilian case is different because one of Brazilian Rugby Union Coulcimen (a former national team player of the 1980s) is a linked to CVC. And he is part of the Union's administration (IIRC) since 2010... It is more a personal contact than a CVC global vision for the sport IMO, but I dont realy know to state this.
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Re: Rugby in Brazil

Postby victorsra » Fri, 26 Jun 2020, 17:59

After the total cancelation of the Brazilian Championship, now there are talks about not having the regional championships in the second semestre either... that would mean a whole year without club rugby here, apart from the Brazilian Sevens championship in February. I hope we can have a least reduced competitions in each state by October/November.
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